Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I thought PFs were not applicable if the only reason the ticket was not valid was a time restriction. Or is that just walk-ups?
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Great Western Railway penalty fare route increases
- Thread starter infobleep
- Start date
- Status
I thought PFs were not applicable if the only reason the ticket was not valid was a time restriction. Or is that just walk-ups?
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Obviously I was being somewhat facetious - but AFAIK the limitation on time-restricted tickets does not include Advance tickets. Other ticket types would be excessed as per the NRCoC. From the Advance ticket T&Cs:
NRCoC said:
(Conditions 2 and 4 relating to travel without a valid ticket)
Advance ticket T&Cs said:
Add in the odd commuter hoping to buy their Anytime ticket on board, missing Railcards, and a host of other
Last edited:
The new scheme is basically saying passengers should buy at their first opportunity to do so, something that has already been publicised! One thing that will be changing though is places like Frome, that has a TVM and a ticket office (open part time) but is not currently included in the PF scheme - But will be in a couple of weeks.
The scheme would probably work better if they made more of an effort to install more ticket issuing facilities at stations that currently have little/none. There are very few on the Westbury - Weymouth line, none on the Severn Beach line, few at other Bristol area stations, none most of the time at Keynsham and Oldfield Park, none at Freshford or Avoncliff and obviously none at all GWR managed request stops. None at most Exeter surburban/rural route stations, and none at most stations on Cornish branches. And that's just the west!
Obviously you can't expect facilities at every station as the initial cost would be high and some lesser used stations don't really warrant it, but stations like Keynsham and Oldfield Park really should have better ticket issuing facilities.
The scheme would probably work better if they made more of an effort to install more ticket issuing facilities at stations that currently have little/none. There are very few on the Westbury - Weymouth line, none on the Severn Beach line, few at other Bristol area stations, none most of the time at Keynsham and Oldfield Park, none at Freshford or Avoncliff and obviously none at all GWR managed request stops. None at most Exeter surburban/rural route stations, and none at most stations on Cornish branches. And that's just the west!
Obviously you can't expect facilities at every station as the initial cost would be high and some lesser used stations don't really warrant it, but stations like Keynsham and Oldfield Park really should have better ticket issuing facilities.
You must buy a ticket before boarding if the facilities to do so are available, unless a notice or an authorised person excepts you from the requirement.
Last edited:
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,448
You possibly need to follow a few more posts on this point, like I did earlier...
If facilties are not available but you do not have funds to pay anyway, then I assume they can PF you on a line that is pay on boaed?
Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
Last edited:
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,448
Do not have? That was your earlier point?
This is interesting. I frequently travel from Frome station, and obviously wish to stay the right side of the new penalty fare regime which will apply there soon. Normally the ticket office is open when I travel, but it closes mid morning. As mentioned above, there is a self-service ticket machine too, which is reasonably reliable, but it only accepts card payment, and doesn't always offer the ticket(s) I require.
If I travel when the booking office is closed, and I either wish to pay by cash/voucher and/or buy a ticket which the self-service machine is unable to offer, am I still able to buy on board without risking a penalty fare?
Thanks in advance for advice.
If the machine is not accepting your chosen payment method then yes, of course. What else could you do?
If the ticket you need isn't available, the waters are rather muddy. Condition 3 may or may not apply and this has been subject to much discussion in the past. If you have an example in mind (some kind of Rover perhaps), why not email Great Western Customer Relations and see what they say?
If the ticket you need isn't available, the waters are rather muddy. Condition 3 may or may not apply and this has been subject to much discussion in the past. If you have an example in mind (some kind of Rover perhaps), why not email Great Western Customer Relations and see what they say?
A legal precedent has not been established that a passenger who is possessed of both a credit or debit card and sufficient cash each of which he could use to purchase his ticket is excused of the requirement to purchase before boarding in circumstances where the available ticketing facilities accept only cards and the passenger feels like choosing to pay in cash.
A lot of quite fervent assertions have been made that such a passenger is allowed to choose not to use the ticketing facilities and pay cash on board or at the destination. It is not clear that this is legal. (It is also not clear that it is illegal.)
A lot of quite fervent assertions have been made that such a passenger is allowed to choose not to use the ticketing facilities and pay cash on board or at the destination. It is not clear that this is legal. (It is also not clear that it is illegal.)
GWR neatly get around this issue at stations on the NDL with card only TVMs, as I mentioned here in 2013:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1476154&postcount=52
The notice is still there, albeit somewhat the worse for wear.
It seems like a slightly moot point to me 'legally'. If the passenger demonstrates they have cash and wish to pay with it, can the Railway Company force the passenger to tell them if they have cards or if they could have used them? What evidence do they need to prove that, and how are they going to collect it? It's a point, I agree, but I don't think it's helpful to have a discussion about the legalese that's so removed from what practically can or will happen. Fundamentally it's easy for the company to accept cash at stations, so if they wanted to, they could do.
Except it isn't. Cash-accepting TVMs are larger and more expensive, and need someone going around emptying them. They also attract more vandalism.
I need a huge stamp that says 'Moot Point'. Totally irrelevant to the question, which is does the TOC have the power to inspect the contents of your wallet, which I notice you didn't comment on.
Interestingly, I was having a look at the new GWR penalty fares poster with a map at BOA station and it lists the Barnstaple line as a "pay on board" line which is fair enough - But it also includes Barnstaple itself, which has a TVM outside the station entrance, as well as an ticket office open for most of the day?
Also, from the GWR website it says:
So in theory, if someone boarded at Barnstaple and walked past two opportunities to pay, they wouldn't receive a penalty fare. Consistency...
Also, from the GWR website it says:
So in theory, if someone boarded at Barnstaple and walked past two opportunities to pay, they wouldn't receive a penalty fare. Consistency...
bb21
Emeritus Moderator
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 24,151
It is worth noting that to mitigate against the unwanted effect of passengers being charged double the fare on long intercity routes, there is a limit of £150 agreed between GW and the DfT on the price of Penalty Fare charged. For these long journeys, the passenger should be sold the Anytime Single and advised of the Penalty Fares scheme.
- Status