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Greater Anglia 2019 - What could possibly go wrong?

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whhistle

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So much doom and gloom in this thread.
It's almost like people want bad things to happen so they can say "I told you so".
 
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samuelmorris

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So much doom and gloom in this thread.
It's almost like people want bad things to happen so they can say "I told you so".
Absolutely not - unlike most of the other threads I participate in, this one has a real direct impact on me as it's my area. I certainly don't want to see things go wrong here, but look around. What other railway deployment plan has gone to plan in the UK recently, can you name a single one? We have to treat any announcements concerning new trains, new services etc. with a healthy dose of scepticism because statistically the likelihood we actually get what we're promised, is pretty low these days.
 
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So much doom and gloom in this thread.
It's almost like people want bad things to happen so they can say "I told you so".

With frequent broken connections at Thorpe-le-Soken, and the 40 minute wait at this desolate hole of an unfit-for-purpose interchange station (one solution: offer the disused station buffet rent-free), believe me, I rather like it when the GEML operates successfully.

But with (1) major railway management failures currently making the headlines on a monthly basis, (2) no evidence that AGA is staffed with management stars who are capable of not making the headlines for the wrong reasons, (3) known financial problems with AGA and (4) the same sort of information greyout that has preceded the other management disasters, the signs are not good.

So far, all I have seen from AGA are petty cost-saving measures, and the only 'engineering' project they have implemented is re-signing the stations, and they didn't even do that very well.

If you can look at the whole picture and correctly not predict a shambles, then good for you, and for me too, sometimes it is good to be wrong.

IMG_5482.JPG
 

dk1

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With frequent broken connections at Thorpe-le-Soken, and the 40 minute wait at this desolate hole of an unfit-for-purpose interchange station (one solution: offer the disused station buffet rent-free), believe me, I rather like it when the GEML operates successfully.

But with (1) major railway management failures currently making the headlines on a monthly basis, (2) no evidence that AGA is staffed with management stars who are capable of not making the headlines for the wrong reasons, (3) known financial problems with AGA and (4) the same sort of information greyout that has preceded the other management disasters, the signs are not good.

So far, all I have seen from AGA are petty cost-saving measures, and the only 'engineering' project they have implemented is re-signing the stations, and they didn't even do that very well.

If you can look at the whole picture and correctly not predict a shambles, then good for you, and for me too, sometimes it is good to be wrong.

View attachment 56526
Its been GA rather than AGA for well over a year now.
 

Wivenswold

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So much doom and gloom in this thread.
It's almost like people want bad things to happen so they can say "I told you so".

No, as a nation we don't ask enough questions of those in charge and we're slowly losing confidence in the way the country is being "run" and genuine concerns about the DfT's relaxed approach to imminent problems. It is important that people take an interest in issues that affect or interest them and challenge at every opportunity. Anyway, reality can be gloomy, but this is also a thread for those on the inside to allay some of that gloom.

I don't think anyone wants GA to fail. It will have a dramatic effect on the region and would be a further burden on taxpayers.
 

MrPIC

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I so badly want this new fleet and timetable to work just as intended and be as marvellous as it should be, and I think it will, just not in the timescale described!
 

samuelmorris

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I so badly want this new fleet and timetable to work just as intended and be as marvellous as it should be, and I think it will, just not in the timescale described!
That's a given. At the current rate of progress the first 710 isn't going to be in service until the Spring, even if there are no further delays (which is unclear as yet), it might even be Summer. Several 710s would need to be in service before we're likely to see the first 720 brought over here (because Bombardier's team will be focused on getting the former to actually work), then there are the various tests to carry out since they'll be used over the entirety of the GA network, with the only exception being the unelectrified branches. The Lotrain network may be complex, covering dual-voltage, the NLL, Goblin, Watford DC and West Anglia metro lines, but that's still fewer miles than the area the 720s will cover and it's not as if there aren't precedents of issues with certain stock previously being unable to reach certain areas (see the 360s not going north of Stowmarket or east of Shenfield). Right now I wouldn't expect the first 720 carrying passengers in public service until 2020.
 

LAX54

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360's are cleared from Stowmarket to Norwich, however GA choose not to, the Norwich in 90 trial runs were 12 car 360's and no special authorisation needed :)
 

samuelmorris

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Fair enough, I didn't realise it was simply a TOC issue. I'm sure I remember there being some sort of initial technical issue that may subsequently have been solved, though.
 

LAX54

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Fair enough, I didn't realise it was simply a TOC issue. I'm sure I remember there being some sort of initial technical issue that may subsequently have been solved, though.

However I think they are a little bit electricity hungry, so if regular visitors, may (or may not ! ) give rise to supply issues, not that we have had any issues as far as I can remember !
 

delticdave

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The Southminster branch could feasibly run on to the siding on the London side of Wickford. The 360s are on lease until later in 2020 so there will be 4 car units available for a while yet. I seem to recall that First Great Eastern cleared the 360s for the Southminster branch but not down to Southend Vic. That last bit was based on info I saw back in 2003 though so it may not have happened in the end.

I'm confused, do you mean that the branch train should terminate in platform 2, then shunt into the down siding, wait there for the connecting down service to stop in platform 2 & then follow it from the siding, collect passengers & depart to Southminster all in the 10 minute turn-round time?

I'd prefer to see a few 360's or 321's retained, or even a few of the bi-mode Flirts for the branch. Current consumption might be a problem towards the end of the line
but the peak-hour 12-car trains seem to manage......

DC
 

Wivenswold

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Obviously the use of the down siding at Wickford would be a short term solution and require a re-write of the timetable but the latter is happening anyway, you may even get a longer turnaround if the 720s improved performance over our current trains is as good as it says in the brochure.

i don't think the Renatus 321s will stay if Bombardier or GA have a say. The 360s could carry on having a Siemen's facility at Clacton but otherwise I reckon the 379s are favourite as they can be maintained by Bombardier at Ilford, but only if a better leasing deal can be agreed. GA would surely have some leverage in that respect given that, on the face of it, they have a choice of units from which to choose a legacy fleet (at time of going to press, subject to usual DfT/TOC fluidity, always check the label.)

Just hypothetical thoughts though, happy as always to be pointed towards pitfalls as DelticDave has kindly done.
 

Panupreset

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Er the 12 car 321's in the peak do not manage on the Southminster branch. They operate under a restriction as those of us in the know would testify. You won't be seeing 360's on the southminster branch IMHO.
 

Wivenswold

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I know the 360s don't work the Southminster branch and never have but prior to entry into service FGE's own publicity suggested they were intended to replace all 312 workings including the morning peak sortie to Southminster. Out of interest what are those restrictions and how would they prevent 360's being used? I've read on here that they upset the OHL power supply further towards Southend Vic. It would be good to have some info from those in the know.
 

RailWonderer

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The one thing (apart from the Aventra delay which will hit lots of TOCs with LO already hurting, SWR yet to come, and LNWR and C2C will eventually feel it too)
It continues to confuse me why C2C, LNWR and SWR are all ordering bombardier despite their problems. Why not Siemens, Alstom or Stadler?
 

delticdave

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Er the 12 car 321's in the peak do not manage on the Southminster branch. They operate under a restriction as those of us in the know would testify. You won't be seeing 360's on the southminster branch IMHO.

Que? I've noticed that the rear unit is locked out when it arrives at S.Woodham, but when it departs all 3 motor coaches are powering.
Maybe the power supply can't cope with the 8 & 12 car sets departing N. Fambridge at the same time, but ISTR that the inbound unit is held there
for a few minutes to minimise the voltage drop......
 

AlexNL

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It continues to confuse me why C2C, LNWR and SWR are all ordering bombardier despite their problems. Why not Siemens, Alstom or Stadler?
SWR ordered their Aventra's in June 2017, WMTrains ordered theirs in October 2017 and the c2c order was announced in December. The scale of problems with the Class 710 for LO wasn't as big at that time as it is today, the delays only became apparent after those other operators had finalised their orders.
 

47421

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Just noticed the comment below on GA website. Assuming that May 2020 is not a typo, that means they are already assuming a 12 month delay to the modest timetable improvements required under TSR2 from May 2019 (Hertford East 2 to 3 TPH off peak, Southend Vic 3 to 4 TPH off peak). TSR 3 with the full recast is due May 2020. TSR 2 also has start of STAR, extension of the hourly LivSt Ipswich semi fast to Norwich and extension of the hourly Norwich Camb to Stansted Airport.

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/about-us/customer-report
Faster and more frequent services
We'll be cutting the journey times on some London services (Norwich in 90, Ipswich in 56) and providing 33,000 extra seats for weekday commuters. We'll also be upping the frequency with more off-peak services from Hertford East and Southend from May 2020.
 

bramling

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prior to entry into service FGE's own publicity suggested they were intended to replace all 312 workings including the morning peak sortie to Southminster.

Is it necessarily possible from that to infer 360s were planned to go to Southminster? A different interpretation could be that all 312 workings would be replaced, but not necessarily directly - i.e. some 360s could go onto certain 321 workings which in turn could displace 312s from the likes of Southminster. IIRC isn't that what happened?
 

43074

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Just noticed the comment below on GA website. Assuming that May 2020 is not a typo, that means they are already assuming a 12 month delay to the modest timetable improvements required under TSR2 from May 2019 (Hertford East 2 to 3 TPH off peak, Southend Vic 3 to 4 TPH off peak). TSR 3 with the full recast is due May 2020. TSR 2 also has start of STAR, extension of the hourly LivSt Ipswich semi fast to Norwich and extension of the hourly Norwich Camb to Stansted Airport.

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/about-us/customer-report
Faster and more frequent services
We'll be cutting the journey times on some London services (Norwich in 90, Ipswich in 56) and providing 33,000 extra seats for weekday commuters. We'll also be upping the frequency with more off-peak services from Hertford East and Southend from May 2020.

I did note their customer report pdf (page 3) states "the exact dates of the timetable changes will be confirmed nearer the time", so I'd take that date with a pinch of salt... A lot of it depends on the Liverpool Street platform lengthening works being carried out which are running late.
 

47421

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Well the LivSt works shouldn't affect STAR or Norwich to Camb extension to Stansted Apt or LivSt Ipswich semi fast extension to Norwich.
 

87015

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I did note their customer report pdf (page 3) states "the exact dates of the timetable changes will be confirmed nearer the time", so I'd take that date with a pinch of salt... A lot of it depends on the Liverpool Street platform lengthening works being carried out which are running late.
If you mean the 15-18 rebuild, it’s currently going ahead this summer as planned. Too much else planned in for it to move.
 

samuelmorris

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Have they made any announcements about how TfL services will operate beyond that point then? I find it hard to believe they would carry on with that without the crossrail core open as the reduction in capacity at Liverpool St would be enormous.
 

700007

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Yes I also struggle to see the 15-18 works happening because during the peaks, TfL Rail also require the use of up to 4 platforms at any one time.

Are a mixture of selected GA / XR services going to terminate at Stratford with passengers told to get the Central line?
 

samuelmorris

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Yes I also struggle to see the 15-18 works happening because during the peaks, TfL Rail also require the use of up to 4 platforms at any one time.

Are a mixture of selected GA / XR services going to terminate at Stratford with passengers told to get the Central line?
That would only give them two platforms to work with so would halve the number of services they could run and let's face it, TfL Rail is crowded enough as it is. I imagine it'd also wreak havoc with trying to get stock out from Ilford depot which uses the slow lines to reach Liverpool Street before entering service.
 

dk1

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Yes I also struggle to see the 15-18 works happening because during the peaks, TfL Rail also require the use of up to 4 platforms at any one time.

Are a mixture of selected GA / XR services going to terminate at Stratford with passengers told to get the Central line?
Where would they terminate at Stratford with enough time to turn back? All platforms are in continuous use during the peaks & then there would be the conflicting crossing moves eating into more paths.
 

trebor79

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Maybe Liverpool Street crossrail station could open in some limited capacity before the rest of the core?
Might be a bit off the wall, but clearly the whole crossrail commissioning plan is out to the window anyway, so a phased approach might be pragmatic in the circumstances.
 
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