Greater Anglia 2019 - What could possibly go wrong?

[samuelmorris]

No turnaround there though is there? You'd have similar issues to turning round at Stratford.

 

[trebor79]

Doesn't matter though if there aren't going to be any through services. There must be a crossover somewhere to allow access to/from either platform.
So you could reduce the platform requirement at Liverpool Street main from 4 to 2...

 

[samuelmorris]

It does because the trains still occupy the platforms for 5+ minutes while they turn round. The Paddington turnaround allows the units to turn round out of the way, a la Bank DLR. That's a much more efficient way of using only 2 platforms as a terminus.

 

[dk1]

Maybe Liverpool Street crossrail station could open in some limited capacity before the rest of the core?
Might be a bit off the wall, but clearly the whole crossrail commissioning plan is out to the window anyway, so a phased approach might be pragmatic in the circumstances.

Not possible as would need the new signalling fully commissioned as the changeover happens after Pudding Mill Lane.

 

[trebor79]

But presumably the turnaround takes just as long in the main station platform?
So today they use 4 mainline platforms. This stop gap would reduce that to 2, plus the 2 crossrail platforms.

 

[samuelmorris]

Yes but the loading cycle happens in 3 different places - unload in one platform, change ends in the siding and load in the other, so it behaves like a through train. The problem comes when the driver has to walk the length of a 200m unit to change ends. For that reason I believe there are multiple sidings in use at Paddington, something you won't get at Liverpool Street crossrail.

 

[trebor79]

But what happens at Liverpool Street today?

 

[HowardGWR]

Ah, so he's not the same Matt Dolphin that had a string of FD roles in East Anglian Bus Companies.

Must be a shoal of Dolphin Accountants in Essex waters...

A pod, more accurately? I cannot imagine what contribution an accountant could make to solving the problems of introducing the new stock and facilities, other than to exacerbate them.

 

[samuelmorris]

But what happens at Liverpool Street today?

There are 4 platforms, is what happens. What other two platforms would you be using with this workaround? (As has been commented above, this is very unlikely to happen as the section through Whitechapel is on the new signalling system which is the source of most of the delays in the first place. It'll be another year I suspect before anything can run down there with passengers).

 

[Alfie1014]

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/about-us/customer-report
Faster and more frequent services
We'll be cutting the journey times on some London services (Norwich in 90, Ipswich in 56) and providing 33,000 extra seats for weekday commuters. We'll also be upping the frequency with more off-peak services from Hertford East and Southend from May 2020.​

I note in the same report it mentions a new maintenance facility at Colchester, first time I've seen this in the public domain? I assume it is current the Balfour Beattie depot?

The performance page in the report is pretty telling too; on evey measure things are worse than a year ago. Punctuality, reliability, cancellations, (almost twice as bad) and declared short forms (almost four times worse than summer 2017). Usual management speak about working hard with NR to improve matters, with much importance placed on the fact that 'Nirvana' will be achieved when the new trains arrive!

In respect of Liv St plats 16-18 my understanding is that they can only be done during August when passenger numbers drop for the school holidays and next summer is still scheduled. Though there will have to be some degree of thinning out of services during the work.

 

[samuelmorris]

Which means if it runs behind, which it could well do, bad times ahead!

 

[Muenchener]

So potential infrastructure issues, late rolling stock, and an impending timetable change with multiple amendments and increases to existing service level. Sounds familiar to those of us who live along the Bolton corridor. At least you will still have a Saturday service...

 

[samuelmorris]

It's not going to be pretty but I don't think we will have it as bad as the North. The existing stock isn't as dire as some of the older DMUs at Northern and can survive a bit longer without being too unpleasant to travel on. Most of the area is DOO so any issues with management of guards should be fairly minimal. The rural areas are more at risk with longer service intervals but I think less likely to be hit by crises assuming there are no major incidents with the 755s. The stock that's far more behind schedule at least for now is the 720s - even if unit availability continues to decrease in advance of them being introduced, other than a few exceptions, thinning out the service pattern doesn't cause too long a wait between services for most people - it will just lead to some rather unpleasant overcrowding. The service far more at risk at the moment is TfL Rail - if they carry on with remodelling Liverpool Street that's going to cause chaos. Knowing how long the delay to Crossrail is now likely to be, I don't see why that isn't moved to August 2020. No point recasting the Anglia timetable until the new stock is here en masse - that isn't going to have happened before 2020, so they should be able to work with the same number of platforms as today.

 

[Muenchener]

Wish you well Sam. Given the debacle of the May 18 timetable change; lessons learnt will be enforced for the benefit of all. I'll be watching with interest, from afar, on how things develop in the Greater Anglia region...

 

[TheEdge]

I note in the same report it mentions a new maintenance facility at Colchester, first time I've seen this in the public domain? I assume it is current the Balfour Beattie depot?

The shed at Colchester that used to be the diesel depot has been refitted and equipped to carry out minor work and exams on 15x units, taking a bit of strain off Crown Point. Plans for it after they go or if that is referring to another depot, I don't know.

 

[700007]

Where would they terminate at Stratford with enough time to turn back? All platforms are in continuous use during the peaks & then there would be the conflicting crossing moves eating into more paths.

They could do the crossing moves as you say or what they could do is send a number of trains down to Gas Factory to turn around (TfL Rail do already use this). However it would require a reduction in trains (service frequency reduced in the peaks to every 5 minutes possibly?) so either why a reduction in capacity and a lot of displaced passengers.

 

[700007]

They could do the crossing moves as you say or what they could do is send a number of trains down to Gas Factory to turn around (TfL Rail do already use this). However it would require a reduction in trains (service frequency reduced in the peaks to every 5 minutes possibly?) so either why a reduction in capacity and a lot of displaced passengers.

Alternatively a restricted service could run through to London Liverpool Street with one in three trains or something terminating at Stratford and running to Gas Factory.

 

[NLC1072]

Would it be possible to slip a few services in to Fenchurch street instead?

 

[chris11256]

Not during peak as it's practically at capacity as it is. Off peak it's probably achievable, would just need to get the timings right so that time isn't wasted waiting for the single track section to become free.

 

[NLC1072]

Could have two trains go down that way, one going all the way in to fenchurch street, the other stopping at gasworks junction and heading straight back to stratford, would increase the capacity there.

 

[Alfie1014]

GA announced today the withdrawal of First Class on all trains except the Norwich fast services from January 2020.

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/abo...ts-greater-anglia-trains-first-class-end-most

 

[47421]

I wonder why from Jan 2020? Surely there will be many 720s in use before then? And the new airport units are due before then aren't they?

 

[samuelmorris]

I wonder why from Jan 2020? Surely there will be many 720s in use before then? And the new airport units are due before then aren't they?

Presumably any old units left over by that point will be declassified. They have to pick a particular date, that seems reasonable based on how many new units are likely to be in service by then.

 

[Alfie1014]

I wonder why from Jan 2020? Surely there will be many 720s in use before then? And the new airport units are due before then aren't they?

They say they have to give season ticket holders a years notice. But I do wonder if it’s partially cos there won’t be as many 720s in traffic by year end as originally planned. They also say older stock will be declassified from the same date.

 

[306024]

Would it be possible to slip a few services in to Fenchurch street instead?

Not without training all the MTR drivers on the route from Bow Jn to Fenchurch St. And as there is no capacity at Fenchurch St in the peak, that wouldn’t be possible. Off peak, just as quick to change at Stratford, rather than take everyone on a mystery tour of East London to a terminus with no immediate onward connections

Been waiting for the GA first class announcement, it was promised before Christmas so fair enough.

 

[Wivenswold]

Well the statement does give some hope that some units will be in service by mid-2019. Though with the last arriving at the end of 2020, rather than the initial target of March 2020, there's clearly some project slip.

With the 360 and 379 classes set for withdrawal in Oct 2020 one would hope that they've started work on securing a legacy fleet to bridge the gap and provide cover in case of further delays to the Aventra project.

 

[Shunter_69]

Yes but the loading cycle happens in 3 different places - unload in one platform, change ends in the siding and load in the other, so it behaves like a through train. The problem comes when the driver has to walk the length of a 200m unit to change ends. For that reason I believe there are multiple sidings in use at Paddington, something you won't get at Liverpool Street crossrail.

At Paddington, my understanding is that the train is going to shunt itself automatically whilst the driver changes ends.

 

[lordbusiness]

GA announced today the withdrawal of First Class on all trains except the Norwich fast services from January 2020.

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/abo...ts-greater-anglia-trains-first-class-end-most

As I read it, it's not clear whether FC seasons will still be available to buy to use from stations North of Ipswich and potentially Manningtree.

It seems if you live and commute from south of Ipswich the only options if you want to travel FC on your commute would be to either get a standard season and pay the upgrade every day on the train, buy a walk up on the day or buy advance tickets if available.

 

[samuelmorris]

Well the statement does give some hope that some units will be in service by mid-2019. Though with the last arriving at the end of 2020, rather than the initial target of March 2020, there's clearly some project slip.

With the 360 and 379 classes set for withdrawal in Oct 2020 one would hope that they've started work on securing a legacy fleet to bridge the gap and provide cover in case of further delays to the Aventra project.

To be honest I thought it had been set at 'end of 2019' for a while now, before delays to the Aventra programme were obvious, but I could be wrong about that.

At Paddington, my understanding is that the train is going to shunt itself automatically whilst the driver changes ends.

Yes I think I remember that now, had forgotten about that. I do wonder though what the potential likelihood is of sending a train in there and it not coming back. It's bound to happen at some point!

 

[moogal]

Are a mixture of selected GA / XR services going to terminate at Stratford with passengers told to get the Central line?

That'd be unworkable in the peaks - the Central line already struggles to cope as it is!