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Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

R

Russel

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Peter Mugridge said:
No difference at all; the /1s were originally going to be ( half as many ) ten car units.

Then they changed to all five cars but the numbering was by then set in stone because the /6 was used for the c2c units.
Click to expand...

Why would the C2C units being /6 effect the Greater Anglia units, surly numbering all the the GA units in the 720001 - 720133 series would have made more sense all round?
 
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RailUK Forums

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wls1

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I assume it was styled /1 for 10 and /5 for 5 to make it simple, this is the railway once something is set in stone its very difficult to change anything even if it makes sense to change
 
MCR247

MCR247

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Russel said:
Why would the C2C units being /6 effect the Greater Anglia units, surly numbering all the the GA units in the 720001 - 720133 series would have made more sense all round?
Click to expand...
As @wls1 said above, originally it was going to be /1 for 10 cars and /5s for 5 cars. When the order was changed to be all 5 cars, c2cs /6s were already ordered. If GA had wanted them all to be /5s, they’d have ran out of numbers and needed to expand into the /6 range
 
R

Russel

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MCR247 said:
As @wls1 said above, originally it was going to be /1 for 10 cars and /5s for 5 cars. When the order was changed to be all 5 cars, c2cs /6s were already ordered. If GA had wanted them all to be /5s, they’d have ran out of numbers and needed to expand into the /6 range
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Yes, I read what was posted above.

Now, re read what I posted, I suggested they should have all been numbered starting at 720001.

We no have a situation where we have a fleet of identical trains with an inconsistent fleet numbering system.
 
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wagnaga

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Russel said:
Yes, I read what was posted above.

Now, re read what I posted, I suggested they should have all been numbered starting at 720001.

We no have a situation where we have a fleet of identical trains with an inconsistent fleet numbering system.
Click to expand...
I imagine the five car variants had started to be delivered by the time the decision was made to change the ten car variant.
 
H

hwl

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wagnaga said:
Russel said:
Yes, I read what was posted above.

Now, re read what I posted, I suggested they should have all been numbered starting at 720001.

We no have a situation where we have a fleet of identical trains with an inconsistent fleet numbering system.
Click to expand...

I imagine the five car variants had started to be delivered by the time the decision was made to change the ten car variant.
Click to expand...
Correct circa 25 already around at that point...
 
MCR247

MCR247

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Russel said:
Yes, I read what was posted above.

Now, re read what I posted, I suggested they should have all been numbered starting at 720001.
Click to expand...
The first half of your post was a question. I answered this, expanding on points made previously, as you seemed to not understand. Your suggestion is pretty moot as it has already been explained why what happened happened.

We no have a situation where we have a fleet of identical trains with an inconsistent fleet numbering system.
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And? Who cares? The numbers aren't having any operational impact, they can all work together and can all be driven by the people that need to drive them, so whats the problem?
 
Wivenswold

Wivenswold

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Sometimes on the railway it's best not to try to find logic and just work with what you've got.
 
B

BigB

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Wivenswold said:
Sometimes on the railway it's best not to try to find logic and just work with what you've got.
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Invariably there will have been logic applied, it's just that forums are not party to all the available information.... usually when something makes no sense whatsoever the reason is we don't have all the facts that went into the decision making. Of course some of the inputs may have been "unwise" but there would be reasons behind these too.

I can get on a train in Scotland and arrive at a small village in te south after several connections, through several busy bottlenecks, a major global city and still arrive on time. Try that in a car...
So logical to us or not, the railway does "work", just not always as we'd like it.
 
B

Busman

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MCR247 said:
The first half of your post was a question. I answered this, expanding on points made previously, as you seemed to not understand. Your suggestion is pretty moot as it has already been explained why what happened happened.


And? Who cares? The numbers aren't having any operational impact, they can all work together and can all be driven by the people that need to drive them, so whats the problem?
Click to expand...

I think OCD is the problem.

Doesn't bother me at all as you've suggested but I've never got my head round the 375/377 situation to be honest.
 
TheHSRailFan

TheHSRailFan

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Adrian1980uk said:
We must be getting to the point where there's more 720s than can be diagrammed.
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Personally, I think there should be more services that should be 10 car rather than 5 car, as (especially on the Hertfords) there are still quite a few morning trains that really need the extra 5.
 
Royston Vasey

Royston Vasey

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A number of morning trains from Ely, Cambridge North and Cambridge to Liverpool Street (and evening returns) are crying out to be 10 car and SDO is in place to allow it.

The fastest Cambridge to Liverpool St services seem to be 10 cars these days (xx:15 and xx:45) but they are certainly not fully loaded, partly because they start at Cambridge where faster services are already available, and partly because of their limited stop nature. It's actually the slower trains and shoulder peak services I'd lengthen.

It would be nice to see all peak services on the Ely/Cambridge North/Cambridge to Liverpool St corridor go 10 car!
 
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hwl

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TheHSRailFan said:
Personally, I think there should be more services that should be 10 car rather than 5 car, as (especially on the Hertfords) there are still quite a few morning trains that really need the extra 5.
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Were all the Hertford branch works completed? or just mostly competed?

The majority of the outstanding units now will be problem ones not recent builds so GA may be a big more cautious about planning improvements until the extra unit have been proven to be reliable in-service...
 
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Bikeman78

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TheHSRailFan said:
Personally, I think there should be more services that should be 10 car rather than 5 car, as (especially on the Hertfords) there are still quite a few morning trains that really need the extra 5.
Click to expand...
The 0628 Liverpool Street to Cambridge was well loaded with school kids. Used to fill a pair of 317s and was one of the last booked turns. It's a single 720 now. Must he cosy.
 
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jonb

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On the GEML side it’s a similar story, some of the morning services (1N03 05:40 Clacton - Liverpool Street), being an example could do with being a 10-car. Ironically, this is followed closely behind from Colchester by 1F07 (06:11 Colchester Town - Liverpool Street, which is formed of 2 x 720’s.

Similarly in the afternoon/evening, 2F68 (15:36 Liverpool Street - Colchester Town), 1Y24 (16:02 Liverpool Street - Ipswich) and 1F32 (16:32 Liverpool Street - Colchester Town), are all 5-cars and regularly at capacity, especially on Tuesdays - Thursdays.
 
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Adrian1980uk

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jonb said:
On the GEML side it’s a similar story, some of the morning services (1N03 05:40 Clacton - Liverpool Street), being an example could do with being a 10-car. Ironically, this is followed closely behind from Colchester by 1F07 (06:11 Colchester Town - Liverpool Street, which is formed of 2 x 720’s.

Similarly in the afternoon/evening, 2F68 (15:36 Liverpool Street - Colchester Town), 1Y24 (16:02 Liverpool Street - Ipswich) and 1F32 (16:32 Liverpool Street - Colchester Town), are all 5-cars and regularly at capacity, especially on Tuesdays - Thursdays.
Click to expand...
It does sound as though there might not be as many spare 720s as first anticipated
 
TheHSRailFan

TheHSRailFan

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hwl said:
Were all the Hertford branch works completed? or just mostly competed?

The majority of the outstanding units now will be problem ones not recent builds so GA may be a big more cautious about planning improvements until the extra unit have been proven to be reliable in-service...
Click to expand...
Ware, Hertford and Broxbourne platform extensions were done.
The signals were moved at a few stations where they can extend the platforms easily but later as planned.

Pretty much the last batch are coming into service now and already are hooked up with other and/or older 720s.
 
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jonb

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Also to note, on Friday’s many of the GE AM Peak services are reduced to 5-cars within the WTT diagrams, 2N91 being an example which I’m on now ex-Clacton.
 
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wickham

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On no ! Not more going to Worksop - what can the matter be now ? Surely thety are not awaiting parts again ?
 
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Peter Sarf

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wickham said:
On no ! Not more going to Worksop - what can the matter be now ? Surely thety are not awaiting parts again ?
Click to expand...
My guess is not finished as in loose ends/snagging or more. Seems 710s were (still-are) being "finished" at Ilford that way.
 
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wickham

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