Greater Anglia: flexible with "Advance" tickets?

[jamesontheroad]

Hello. Since moving to Norwich a few months ago I've started using the train to Liverpool Street for trips to London. Up to now I've been buying my tickets online, always choosing cheap (£8 and up) Advance fares.

We had some compensation vouchers to cash in, so bought tickets for a new trip at the station the other day. We booked onto the 22:30 return from LST, but the ticket agent scribbled by hand onto the ticket to indicate the £8 Advance singles were also valid on the 21:30 and 23:30 from Liverpool Street.

Is Greater Anglia always flexible with which trains you can take, even on a fixed Advance ticket, when they're late in the evening?

 

[eastdyke]

Hello. Since moving to Norwich a few months ago I've started using the train to Liverpool Street for trips to London. Up to now I've been buying my tickets online, always choosing cheap (£8 and up) Advance fares.

We had some compensation vouchers to cash in, so bought tickets for a new trip at the station the other day. We booked onto the 22:30 return from LST, but the ticket agent scribbled by hand onto the ticket to indicate the £8 Advance singles were also valid on the 21:30 and 23:30 from Liverpool Street.

Is Greater Anglia always flexible with which trains you can take, even on a fixed Advance ticket, when they're late in the evening?

I buy tickets from Norwich on a regular basis and have never been offered this.

There have recently been a lot of late evening Engineering works requiring pax to take the Southend train to Billericay, bus to Witham, train to Norwich. From experience GA staff (when asked before departure) have been happy to be flexible.

If planned works were taking place then you would have different train times from Liverpool Street.

The only other explanation that I can suggest is that an inexperienced member of staff was working unsupervised and noted on the tickets other trains that were available at the same price on the booking engine as if the ticket could be flexible.

I am unaware of any official GA change and would be wary of boarding any train other than the one booked without agreement from a member of the train staff.

 

[tom1681]

This has been the case for a long time (since NXEA at least!). When you get an advance for any of the last three departures from Liverpool Street (21:30, 22:30, 23:30) you can use the ticket on any of them. I have done this a few times.

When you get your tickets for any of these services, you don't get a seat reservation detailed just 'Coach ** Seat **'.

 

[Deerfold]

This has been the case for a long time (since NXEA at least!). When you get an advance for any of the last three departures from Liverpool Street (21:30, 22:30, 23:30) you can use the ticket on any of them. I have done this a few times.

Is this documented anywhere?

When you get your tickets for any of these services, you don't get a seat reservation detailed just 'Coach ** Seat **'.

There are several operators who give advance "reservations" in this format - it means you don't get a seat reservation but I've never come across it meaning you don't have to catch the specified train. Does it say "Booked train only" or similar on the ticket?

 

[tom1681]

Is this documented anywhere?

I've not found it online but did ask GA on Twitter last night to double check it was still ok during engineering works, see this tweet.

Does it say "Booked train only" or similar on the ticket?

I haven't got any tickets to hand that were booked for those services so I'm not sure. It probably does say booked train only, as you still have to use one of those three, and still show your reservartion coupons. I've a set on my way to me at the moment so can say for sure later in the week.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Thanks for the info guys. Up until now I've been buying all my tickets on EastCoast.co.uk (because I like the mixing deck and we can use the East Coast Rewards to pay for pricier trips up to Scotland a few times a year) ... each time so far this generates tickets with a specified seat.

However I'm only now starting to take late evening trips down to London, so I haven't had a chance to see whether the reservation is strictly adhered to.

Ultimately, it may prove academic, because I'm very loathe to take the 23:30 departure, simply because it's so sloooooow back to Norwich.

 

[bb21]

... each time so far this generates tickets with a specified seat.

This is not dependent on which booking engine you use, but the type of reservation associated with the train you are booked on. A service with a "reserved place" system will generate a "Coach *** Seat ***"-type reservation whoever you book with.

 

[LexyBoy]

I'd not travel on any other than the booked train, regardless of what the ticket office clerk told me, unless I had something in writing confirming that it's allowed. Maybe I'm overly cautious though.

 

[tannedfrog]

Have googled the "easement" and it does seem to exist - no idea if it's just for Norwich or other destinations as well

 

[142056]

Is this documented anywhere?



There are several operators who give advance "reservations" in this format - it means you don't get a seat reservation but I've never come across it meaning you don't have to catch the specified train. Does it say "Booked train only" or similar on the ticket?

I had tickets like this on Arriva Trains Wales. I understand fully the need to catch the booked train on Advance tickets - I had a ticket Swansea to Manchester booked on the Heart of Wales service. When I got on the conductor said to me "You know this is the service via the Heart of Wales and so will take loads longer for you?" and didn't check the reservation - I took it as if to say I could have just got the direct service - found it a little odd.

 

[Clip]

I'd not travel on any other than the booked train, regardless of what the ticket office clerk told me, unless I had something in writing confirming that it's allowed. Maybe I'm overly cautious though.

Surely the ticket office clerk writing on the tickets is written proof in itself is it not? Especially if signed by them

 

[Robsignals]

Surely the ticket office clerk writing on the tickets is written proof in itself is it not? Especially if signed by them

Anyone can write on a ticket, doubt if revenue staff are issued with a list of booking clerk names and certainly not specimen signatures!

 

[Clip]

Anyone can write on a ticket, doubt if revenue staff are issued with a list of booking clerk names and certainly not specimen signatures!

You know I never thought of that. They may not be but they should know the easement itself anyway.

Maybe I shouldve said 'stamped' instead for ease of understanding & pedants.

 

[Deerfold]

You know I never thought of that. They may not be but they should know the easement itself anyway.

Or they could actually add it to an official list of easements or publicise it somewhere just in case you come across an RPI who doesn't know about it whereupon you'll struggle to prove you're not travelling on an invalid ticket.

 

[lemonic]

Is this easement only valid if travelling to Norwich? Is it valid if travelling to Ipswich, for example, on the same trains?

 

[gpb_croppers63]

Or they could actually add it to an official list of easements or publicise it somewhere just in case you come across an RPI who doesn't know about it whereupon you'll struggle to prove you're not travelling on an invalid ticket.

I had this exact situation this evening. My flight into Heathrow landed early so I asked the staff at Liverpool Street if I could board the 21:30 instead of the 22:30. 3 of them said it was fine but just to be safe, I asked the guard of the 21:30 if he was OK with it and he said no and that I had to wait for the 22:30. He even rang someone on the mobile to check. I asked again at the ticket office after being denied travel and was told the guard was wrong but by this time, the 21:30 had departed. I'm now sitting on the 22:30. The guy in the ticket office advised me to complain to GA so I will do as soon as I get the chance.

 

[yorkie]

This does not surprise me at all, it's so typical of the rail industry to score 'own goals' like this :roll:. The tweet from GA is still there, so they can't deny that they allow people to take any of those 3 trains.

If they've changed the rules, they should advertise the fact and make it very clear, in my opinion. But given that 3 members of staff confirmed the rule, I suspect the rules have not changed and it's a case of someone has not read the notices/memos etc.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Sleepy]

It has been possible to use any of those 3 trains from LST to any destination for many years and has not been changed recently (or if it has nobody has told train crew !)

 

[gpb_croppers63]

This does not surprise me at all, it's so typical of the rail industry to score 'own goals' like this :roll:. The tweet from GA is still there, so they can't deny that they allow people to take any of those 3 trains.

If they've changed the rules, they should advertise the fact and make it very clear, in my opinion. But given that 3 members of staff confirmed the rule, I suspect the rules have not changed and it's a case of someone has not read the notices/memos etc.

Let us know how you get on.

Yes I think you're right Yorkie.

Another passenger boarded the 2230 at Colchester having been kicked off the 2130 and threatened with the police. The guard on the 2230 worked out who was working the 2130 and said he'd only been out of training around 2 weeks and was normally a local guard so that's why he probably wouldn't know. He did say that was no excuse though. He then sent him a text to inform him and promised to ask his manager to send an e-mail around today to inform everyone that these tickets are valid. He was absolutely brilliant and apologised to me and the other passenger many times.

I've e-mailed GA and had an automated response so I'll let you know what they say.

It has been possible to use any of those 3 trains from LST to any destination for many years and has not been changed recently (or if it has nobody has told train crew !)

Thanks for confirming it yet again. I'll be very interested to see what GA have to say when they reply to my e-mail.

 

[Deerfold]

All of which (as I said) would be easier to prove to a guard if it was somewhere on GA's website...

 

[gpb_croppers63]

All of which (as I said) would be easier to prove to a guard if it was somewhere on GA's website...

I agree completely. Unfortunately, as this is not published anywhere, it just seems to be an unwritten rule that cannot be proven leaving the passenger at the mercy of the guard.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK, so I've had a reply from Greater Anglia informing me that the guard on the 21:30 was correct and that Advance tickets are only valid on the service for which they are booked. Here's the reply:

Dear gpb_croppers63

Thank you for your recent email regarding your journey with us on the 5th April 2013.

I was sorry to read of the conflicting information you received from a number of our staff members at London Liverpool Street. I can confirm that the terms and conditions of Advance purchase tickets are that the ticket is valid only on the date and train service shown. Therefore you should not have been told that you could travel on an early service than the one shown on your ticket and I apologise for this.



We are striving to provide a better service for our customers both on train and at station, so I am grateful that you have taken the time to contact me. Your comments are valuable in helping us identify areas we can improve on and I will ensure they are passed onto the responsible management team for their review and consideration.



Once again, please accept my apologies for the inconvenience caused by this and thank you for taking the time and trouble to contact us.



Yours sincerely,

Greater Anglia

 

[lemonic]

I agree completely. Unfortunately, as this is not published anywhere, it just seems to be an unwritten rule that cannot be proven leaving the passenger at the mercy of the guard.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK, so I've had a reply from Greater Anglia informing me that the guard on the 21:30 was correct and that Advance tickets are only valid on the service for which they are booked. Here's the reply:

I have received wrong advice regarding restrictions of Advance tickets by e-mail from GA so I wouldn't take this as conclusive!

 

[gpb_croppers63]

I have received wrong advice regarding restrictions of Advance tickets by e-mail from GA so I wouldn't take this as conclusive!

Yes I suspect I am being fobbed off so I asked her to clarify why 3 members of booking office staff and one member of on-train staff gave me "wrong" information stating that I was able to travel on the 21:30. I suspect she's just quoting the standard Advance regulations to me and hasn't bothered looking into the situation properly. If anyone would like to see the e-mail that I sent back, let me know.

 

[bb21]

Unfortunately people in customer service roles are not always competently trained to perform their roles, especially with regard to ticketing. I would persist if I were in your position. Don't allow yourself to be fobbed off.

 

[gpb_croppers63]

Unfortunately people in customer service roles are not always competently trained to perform their roles, especially with regard to ticketing. I would persist if I were in your position. Don't allow yourself to be fobbed off.

Yes indeed. I replied making it clear I wasn't going to be fobbed off.

Here's my reply:

Hi Greater Anglia,

Thanks for the information. Has this policy changed recently then? I had it confirmed by the guard on the 22:30 train, as well as 3 members of booking office staff. Surely they can't all be wrong and only the guard on the 21:30 train be right? Where are all of these people getting the idea that these tickets are interchangeable from if it is not correct? I find it baffling that so many members of Greater Anglia staff have incorrect information.

Have you actually investigated this matter or simply told me the standard conditions of Advance tickets, which I am already aware of?

I would be grateful if you could look into this in more detail and get back to me with answers to my questions.

Thanks again and best regards,

gpb_croppers63

 

[306024]

Well I've just tried the simple task of ringing GA Customer services who have confirmed that the 21.30 / 22.30 / 23.30 reservations are still interchangable but of course you won't get your reserved seat if you swap trains. Get that in writing and you are home and dry.

The 21.30 LST - NRW is usually worked by a conductor from the local link at Norwich rather than a Senior Conductor and there are a number of new conductors about. However the trainers at Norwich would of course cover ticket availability in their training so that may be a red herring.

 

[gpb_croppers63]

Well I've just tried the simple task of ringing GA Customer services who have confirmed that the 21.30 / 22.30 / 23.30 reservations are still interchangable but of course you won't get your reserved seat if you swap trains. Get that in writing and you are home and dry.

The 21.30 LST - NRW is usually worked by a conductor from the local link at Norwich rather than a Senior Conductor and there are a number of new conductors about. However the trainers at Norwich would of course cover ticket availability in their training so that may be a red herring.

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm going to keep fighting this one in that case. It's crazy that different information is being fed to different people.

The guard on the 22:30 did say that the guard on the 21:30 was a local guard and that he'd only just qualified so that does explain it but they should be told these things!

 

[306024]

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm going to keep fighting this one in that case. It's crazy that different information is being fed to different people.

The guard on the 22:30 did say that the guard on the 21:30 was a local guard and that he'd only just qualified so that does explain it but they should be told these things!

Quite agree, although they could have been told and then forgotten. There is a lot to take in when you are a newbee, and who hasn't forgotten something in their life.

What I didn't say was that the first time I rang, my call got diverted to NRES and they just trotted out "you must travel on the booked train". Suggest you ask GA to inform NRES as well.

Good luck.

 

[gpb_croppers63]

Quite agree, although they could have been told and then forgotten. There is a lot to take in when you are a newbee, and who hasn't forgotten something in their life.

What I didn't say was that the first time I rang, my call got diverted to NRES and they just trotted out "you must travel on the booked train". Suggest you ask GA to inform NRES as well.

Good luck.

OK thanks. I'll mention it when (if) I get a response to my reply to GA's e-mail. I'm sure the woman who e-mailed back hasn't actually looked into the situation and has just trotted out the standard excuse too.

With regard to him forgetting: I agree there's loads to remember and the guard on the 22:30 said the same. However, what annoyed me was that he rang someone on the mobile who also said "no" and that he kicked another passenger with the same ticket off in Colchester and threatened him with British Transport Police. That's not on as far as I'm concerned.

 

[306024]

With regard to him forgetting: I agree there's loads to remember and the guard on the 22:30 said the same. However, what annoyed me was that he rang someone on the mobile who also said "no" and that he kicked another passenger with the same ticket off in Colchester and threatened him with British Transport Police. That's not on as far as I'm concerned.

Makes me wonder who he rang.

If you tell Customer Services the date you travelled it is simple enough for them to find out who the conductor was. Not with the intention of getting him into trouble but simply to ensure he is correctly trained and to avoid hassle for others in future. The guys at Norwich who do the training are decent chaps who won't be offended if you word your communication politely.

By the way I wasn't the guard on the 22.30 even though we seem to be saying the same thing !