Greater Anglia forcing use of Smart Cards for monthly or longer seasons

[AY1975]

If you go to www.greateranglia.co.uk/smart and look at the route map, you will see that unstaffed stations with no ticket machines or smartcard validators, and certain other lines and stations (for example all intermediate stations between Cambridge and Stowmarket (except Bury St Edmunds), the Felixstowe branch, and all intermediate stations between Norwich and both Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft) are excluded from the scheme - presumably passengers on these routes will still be issued with paper season tickets for the time being.

Also, although weekly tickets are available on smartcards, it would appear that they can also still be issued as paper tickets at least for now.

 

[MikeWM]

If you go to www.greateranglia.co.uk/smart and look at the route map, you will see that unstaffed stations with no ticket machines or smartcard validators, and certain other lines and stations (for example all intermediate stations between Cambridge and Stowmarket (except Bury St Edmunds), the Felixstowe branch, and all intermediate stations between Norwich and both Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft) are excluded from the scheme - presumably passengers on these routes will still be issued with paper season tickets for the time being.

Also, although weekly tickets are available on smartcards, it would appear that they can also still be issued as paper tickets at least for now.

Picked up a leaflet at Ely which says that 'smart' cards will be available from 15th October for

- Lowestoft, Great Yarmouth, Sheringham, Ipswich to Cambridge
- Norwich to Cambridge

...which is fairly vague, but presumably is intended to mean 'those lines we didn't have them available for before' - though notably neither Felixstowe and the East Suffolk line appear to be included in that scope...

Has anyone tried on any of these routes yet?


The leaflet also says (addressing my previous point):

'Simply ask at your ticket office about a Smart Card and they'll issue one to you straight away'

so presumably all stations with ticket offices will somehow be able to issue cards with names printed on them (???). Unless they're scrapping printing names (or the publicity is wrong, and they don't have names on them to begin with?)

 

[arb]

Note that Ely does not have any smart card enabled routes at all according the map on that page. However the posters saying that everything is switching to smart cards have been placed around Ely station. Therefore I think the map on that page is old and in need of an update.

Earlier this year, Greater Anglia introduced "Greater Anglia only" fares on the Ely to Cambridge route, complementing the "Any Permitted" fares that have been in existence for years. I wonder if the "Greater Anglia only" fares are going to switch to smartcard only, whilst the "Any Permitted" will remain in paper form?

 

[MikeWM]

Note that Ely does not have any smart card enabled routes at all according the map on that page. However the posters saying that everything is switching to smart cards have been placed around Ely station. Therefore I think the map on that page is old and in need of an update.

We had posters of 'new trains' - 700s - and a promise of an improved GN timetable leading up to the May timetable change at Ely, despite the fact neither of those things applied to Ely

But probably GA are more careful with their own posters than those of other companies (??).

 

[AY1975]

Note that Ely does not have any smart card enabled routes at all according the map on that page. However the posters saying that everything is switching to smart cards have been placed around Ely station. Therefore I think the map on that page is old and in need of an update.

There are two different versions of the route map under www.greateranglia.co.uk/smart, one in the boxed note next to the FAQs which doesn't appear to have been updated and one under www.greateranglia.co.uk/sites/default/files/assets/download_ct/20181018/gNActxgUru70ebWZ7TXe2XbGCW7x1l9VZv8nyBrT97U/10614-ga_smart_card_usage_areas_route_map_10-18.pdf which has been updated.

 

[HH]

The leaflet also says (addressing my previous point):

'Simply ask at your ticket office about a Smart Card and they'll issue one to you straight away'

so presumably all stations with ticket offices will somehow be able to issue cards with names printed on them (???). Unless they're scrapping printing names (or the publicity is wrong, and they don't have names on them to begin with?)

Mine has my name on it. Along with rank and number (j/k about the rank bit).

 

[MikeWM]

There are two different versions of the route map under www.greateranglia.co.uk/smart, one in the boxed note next to the FAQs which doesn't appear to have been updated and one under www.greateranglia.co.uk/sites/default/files/assets/download_ct/20181018/gNActxgUru70ebWZ7TXe2XbGCW7x1l9VZv8nyBrT97U/10614-ga_smart_card_usage_areas_route_map_10-18.pdf which has been updated.

The latter one is a right dog's breakfast

Lots of intermediate stations not covered. Sheringham not covered (despite being mentioned in the leaflet available at stations). March, but not Peterborough, Whittlesea or Manea? Bury St Eds but not Newmarket?

Feels like they're rather rushing this rather than doing it systematically, which can't be a good thing.

 

[HH]

Probably ran out of money, so they thought, we'll just print a few less names. Nobody will notice...

 

[Sleepy]

The latter one is a right dog's breakfast

Lots of intermediate stations not covered. Sheringham not covered (despite being mentioned in the leaflet available at stations). March, but not Peterborough, Whittlesea or Manea? Bury St Eds but not Newmarket?

Feels like they're rather rushing this rather than doing it systematically, which can't be a good thing.

and this morning smartcards not loading tickets. Sounds like next week will be interesting with the big bang after half term / start of month !!

 

[iphone76]

They did mention on Twitter yesterday that paper season tickets will still be issued if you ask for them.

 

[MikeWM]

They did mention on Twitter yesterday that paper season tickets will still be issued if you ask for them.

Ah, mixed messages. 'End of the line for paper Season Tickets' - 'paper will not be an option'. Let's see what actually happens...

(though given how my most recent paper one came out, who knows anyway. Maybe paper will be an option, but it will look awful...!)

 

[MikeWM]

So...... what's happened? Has anyone had a smartcard issued at a station? Any issues?

The GA website is still rather confusing and ambiguous on this, to say the least (eg. some places still says you need to send away for one, other places say you can get one at the station).

I hear that despite the publicity it is actually only GA-set fares that will be issued as a smartcard, so eg. Ely->Cambridge won't be (except in the GA-only version). Is this true?

 

[MikeWM]

Just renewed my Ely-Cambridge Gold Card. On a paper ticket . Smart card wasn’t mentioned, even as an option. So looks like what I’d heard elsewhere is true - the requirement for a smart card possibly/probably only applies when GA are responsible for the ticket.

As an aside, this one was printed in the old style, which happily avoids the printing disaster I’ve had to put up with for the last year...

 

[Sleepy]

Heard of people on monthly seasons on smart card gone back to paper due to issues with them loading purchases etc.

 

[HH]

Heard of people on monthly seasons on smart card gone back to paper due to issues with them loading purchases etc.

As I noted earlier. This is the problem with Smart; it's rather dumb. A bit like those that have been pushing it before it's ready (and yes, I mean you Mister DfT).

 

[vinnym70]

Despite having had a GA smart card for two years now I've not really ever encountered any problems. Most ticket inspections until very recently have had my ticket ignored because no-one had a reader to check the smart card anyhow.

But now, it seems validators are going up practically everywhere. So, my question is this - my journey is from a station without a gate line to another station without a gate line. Should I now start using the validators? The ticket loaded on the smart card is an annual season.

 

[Goldfish62]

Despite having had a GA smart card for two years now I've not really ever encountered any problems. Most ticket inspections until very recently have had my ticket ignored because no-one had a reader to check the smart card anyhow.

But now, it seems validators are going up practically everywhere. So, my question is this - my journey is from a station without a gate line to another station without a gate line. Should I now start using the validators? The ticket loaded on the smart card is an annual season.

I have an SWR smartcard which I always validate on gateless validators. For all I know my validations are checked for Delay Repay claims.

 

[HH]

I travel from a gateless station to a gateless station too (well gateless if you don't leave the station); neither have validators, despite one being Stratford, probably the second most frequent destination on the network.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I have an SWR smartcard which I always validate on gateless validators. For all I know my validations are checked for Delay Repay claims.

On the Southern Keycard the delay repay is semi-automatic if you have tapped in and out. If the system detects you have had a qualifying delay it emails you asking you if you want to claim. Only works if you have tapped obviously.

 

[iphone76]

I'm a monthly season ticket holder and today received through the post a blank smart card from GA telling me that I have to take it to the ticket office when I next renew my ticket.

My main objections are that it won't work and I want to protect the ticket office station at my local station.

 

[MikeWM]

So there is a rather confusing news story around today about this issue:

Greater Anglia forced to drop paper tickets ban

The main part of the story actually seems to be a story where the ASA is complaining that GA's 'the end of paper season tickets' adverts were wrong, because some routes weren't going to be covered by this push to smartcards regardless of the publicity that was all over GA stations (eg. Ely <-> Cambridge 'Any Permitted', as that fare is set by GN). Which seems fair enough.

But there are other claims in this story that seem to go wider than this, eg. it also claims that 'government rules say paper tickets must still be offered to travellers', and that 'The Department for Transport, which is backing the implementation of smart cards for train travel, said paper tickets must still be offered.'

Is this usual rubbish railway journalism, or is it actually the case that GA have tried to overstep the mark here by forcing people to use smart cards? It is also very unclear whether the article is referring to weekly seasons specifically, or all seasons.


The only other article I can find on this topic is this one, also from today

Greater Anglia tickets claim leads watchdog to warn rail operator

which similarly confuses the two issues, both mentioning the ASA ruling but also saying that 'under the terms of their franchise paper tickets still have to be available' and a quote from someone from a User Group saying 'The fact is that while new tickets might be more convenient for most people, paper tickets still have to be available under the terms of their contract'.

Again, is that actually the case? And again, deeply unclear whether they are referring to weekly seasons or all seasons.


GA's 'modified' page after the ASA complaint now says

We're no longer issuing paper season tickets. When you renew or buy a new monthly, custom duration or annual season ticket, we'll automatically issue a Smart Card Season Ticket. Apply for your Smart Card online if you don't already have one. If you prefer to do it in person nearly all ticket offices can issue Smart Cards and Smart Card Season tickets.

Paper season tickets will only be issued on certain routes under certain circumstances. You can use your existing paper ticket until you renew or, if it has a month to run, swap it online or at Liverpool Street, Colchester or Cambridge.

which is as clear as mud, contradicting itself between the two paragraphs, and not mentioning weekly tickets at all.

 

[HH]

I got a weekly this morning; I was asked if I wanted a smart version; I said no. I was then asked why not; I said I already have a smartcard, but it was dumb and I would stick to paper. He wrote this all down on a slip which is obviously going to be returned to HQ.

 

[Wolfie]

Will the Smartcard open the barriers at a London Overground station?

Based on my colleague's experience with 'smartcards' from other TOCs used on various TfL-run stations the answer 80+% of the time is no. When SWR tried to force me down that route (refusing to renew my paper annual more than a week in advance) l went Oyster instead...

 

[FlippyFF]

Based on my colleague's experience with 'smartcards' from other TOCs used on various TfL-run stations the answer 80+% of the time is no. When SWR tried to force me down that route (refusing to renew my paper annual more than a week in advance) l went Oyster instead...

I've been using a Southeastern 'Key' smart card for coming up to two years now, it's loaded with an Ashford Int. to Z1-6 annual. The only time I've had problems with it have been at some, but not all, stations with the older style of gates with the wider mechanical box (can't think of a proper name for them - turret?)* and once on a TfL bus where the ticket machine wouldn't read the card but it worked fine on the bus behind.
*One gate line attendant told me those type of gates couldn't read ITSO cards but I've used the same gate at the same station subsequently with no issues.

Simon

 

[Wolfie]

I've been using a Southeastern 'Key' smart card for coming up to two years now, it's loaded with an Ashford Int. to Z1-6 annual. The only time I've had problems with it have been at some, but not all, stations with the older style of gates with the wider mechanical box (can't think of a proper name for them - turret?)* and once on a TfL bus where the ticket machine wouldn't read the card but it worked fine on the bus behind.
*One gate line attendant told me those type of gates couldn't read ITSO cards but I've used the same gate at the same station subsequently with no issues.

Simon

Interesting. Many of my colleagues who have had problems travel predominantly with either SWR or GTR and have their smartcards.

 

[infobleep]

I would link to the thread about the dangers of moving from card to magstripe tickets in the 1980s, or the other thread about moving to card tickets from Edmondson tickets in the 1950s / 1960s (roughly), but I can't find those threads right now.

Well Edmondson tickets never did they grandparents any harm!

It's hardly that expensive. How do you pay for your bus fare? In Oxford I just board, say where I'm going and tap my credit card on the reader.

Smartcard technology is cheap and disposable. Indeed in many locations disposable paper tickets have smart chips inside.

Can the smart cards be recycle?

How will it work on a line where someone has a season ticket and they wish to traveler further? I take it they would need to alight from a train and tape in. Tough luck if the next train isn't for an hour. I guess here mobile ticket will help, as you don't need to tape in.

Of course the one time I thought about using mobile ticketing, it didn't exist so I alighted and took the tube.

Is some of the money, the government has set aside to roll this out, being given to TfL?

 

[smsm1]

Smart cards can have multiple tickets on them. I'd hope that the smart card system is clever enough to cope with split tickets. The roll out of single and return tickets on smart cards has started, however it's rather buggy, so no big launch yet. It's even possible to buy a return ticket on a smart card on the journey Westerfield - Felixstowe, so completely on the grey part of the GA smart card map. They are also available for TL/GN trains around Cambridge/Ely. You can also buy them from the ticket machine, and put the single/return ticket on to the smart card at the ticket machines.

I find it interesting so see several people on this thread complain about the move to smart tickets. On my regular train from Ipswich to Cambridge, there's some regulars who frequently complain that they can't put their season ticket on to a smart card, as their paper ticket stops working in the barriers so quickly (especially Bury St Edmunds (no gate) to Cambridge (gates)).

 

[arb]

Ely station are still using paper tickets for Ely-Cambridge any permitted gold card annual seasons. I wasn't even offered the choice of a smartcard when I renewed this morning.

A friend who has some kind of extra-special corporate discount has to buy their ticket over the phone to Greater Anglia, and can't get whatever their discount is at stations. They also received a paper Ely-Cambridge season when they renewed by phone a couple of months ago.

 

[HH]

If your needs are simple, e.g. standard season X - Liverpool Street, Smart works fine. The farther you depart from that simple state, the bigger the problems. Maybe by 2030 things will be better, but more likely they will have been superseded...

 

[whhistle]

My main objections are that it won't work and I want to protect the ticket office station at my local station.

The ticket office staff at your local station will still be around.
It's like all these people saying "self checkouts will cut jobs". No. Natural wastage will lower employees but people still need help and with the rise of "click and collect", they're out and about in the store picking peoples shopping instead.