Greater Anglia forcing use of Smart Cards for monthly or longer seasons

[Wivenswold]

I'm one of the commuters affected by this. It's a superb idea. They're also going to do carnet style season packages for those like me who work from home for half of the week. Win-win for me.

Other commuters I know are also happy with the change to smart cards and wonder why paper tickets are still a thing.

 

[Rail Blues]

From November Greater Anglia will not issue paper season tickets for monthly or longer duration, all will be issued on smart cards. Can't see this going down well especially if your season is also valid on Great Northern route from Cambridge !!

I really dispair how some on this board seems to be so fearful and dismissive of change. What possible merit does the paper season ticket have and why would anyone grieve its passing is beyond me. It is mind boggling to me that paper season tickets have survived this long.

 

[Wivenswold]

I agree. Change is constant as it should be. The trick is enjoying and appreciating the world as it is today, because nothing stands still.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I really dispair how some on this board seems to be so fearful and dismissive of change. What possible merit does the paper season ticket have and why would anyone grieve its passing is beyond me. It is mind boggling to me that paper season tickets have survived this long.

The concern people have is loss of validity, which is a valid one as these tend to be single-TOC schemes.

 

[MikeWM]

I really dispair how some on this board seems to be so fearful and dismissive of change. What possible merit does the paper season ticket have and why would anyone grieve its passing is beyond me. It is mind boggling to me that paper season tickets have survived this long.

It depends in part on whether the change is clearly beneficial or not. If it is neutral - or worse, potentially negative - then reluctance is natural.

- Some people like to be able to see what they’ve got when they’ve paid thousands of pounds for it. You can do that with paper. You can’t with a smartcard.

- There are genuine concerns with inter-operator availability and through journeys, some of which have been raised on this thread already. Some people may prefer to wait until those have clearly been sorted out before switching to a smartcard.

- There has also been mention of having to touch in and out and ‘penalty fares’ for not doing so. I assume this won’t actually be the case - how can eg. an annual season incur penalties? - but the idea is troubling. Those who often use a combination of tickets may prefer to stick with paper to avoid potentially having to break their journey unnecessarily.

There’s nothing wrong with caution and letting early-adopters discover issues and problems. Yes, in the end you’ll have to move along the last few reluctant stubborn people whether they like it or not, but people have to accept that when paying thousands of pounds annually and potentially getting something that may be inferior or more hassle - that’s not something that is going to be welcomed by all.

 

[MikeWM]

On a practical note, some questions:

- Currently not all GA routes can have a smartcard. Is this going to change in November too or is this only for the routes that only have smartcard availability now?

- Currently you have to order the card through the post. Presumably this will change - surely people will still be able to go to a ticket office and buy a ticket there and then, rather than having to wait x days?

- How do the existing cards work with other operators? Eg. XC to Stansted on a Cambridge-London season?

- How do the existing cards work with passback? Eg. if I’m on a station and the train is late and I pop back through the barriers to get a drink or whatever, the paper ticket is then rejected by the gate. In this case I can show it to the person manning the gateline. And with a smartcard...?

- Presumably the existing cards open gates, but don’t *require* touch in/out?

There are probably other questions too, but that will do for now...

 

[adamello]

I'm holder of a couple of Smart Tickets, a SWR one (well SWT) which curently has no ticket on it, however when it did, it wasn't any good on journey breaks (luckily all intermediate stations were barrier less) but if I tried to touch in, it would tell me not valid. - when i got it, i was sent a Gold Record Card.

If a guard wanted to see my ticket, they would either trust my record card, or they would scan the card to see if there was a valid ticket stored on it.

The other is one called Solent Go - which was marketed as a cohesive joined up ticket for accross the solent region, or so I thought, it works by storing a local ferry carnet ticket, and a seasonal bus ticket for one or two operators.
it would have been nice if it was a case of whether use bus or boat that it would take from one ticket.

 

[button_boxer]

There has also been mention of having to touch in and out and ‘penalty fares’ for not doing so. I assume this won’t actually be the case - how can eg. an annual season incur penalties? - but the idea is troubling.

The only case I've heard of this is for The Key when you have a season ticket and "KeyGo" PAYG balance on the same card, then you have to touch in and out on every journey so it knows when and how much to take from your PAYG balance for extension fares.

 

[Esker-pades]

Given my constant need to ring up the Oyster helpline about mistaken penalty fare charges, I remain unconvinced by SmartCards. I don't mind their existance, but forcing people to use one (especially given some of the issues raised in this thread so far) is something I am against.

 

[Sleepy]

I would estimate current usage on GER mainline to be aprox. 10 % of season ticket holders - presumably this is why the issue is being "forced" by GA due to a lower than expected take up and ditching of paper tickets being flavour of the month at the DfT driving this on ?

 

[HH]

I would estimate current usage on GER mainline to be aprox. 10 % of season ticket holders - presumably this is why the issue is being "forced" by GA due to a lower than expected take up and ditching of paper tickets being flavour of the month at the DfT driving this on ?

It's a Franchise Commitment to get to a certain level of Smart Ticketing and their plan was always to move Seasons onto Smart; no chance of making the target otherwise.

P.S. I agree that the current Smartcard leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Class 170101]

Smartcards tend to be stronger than paper tickets in terms of being near smartphones etc

 

[bubieyehyeh]

It's a Franchise Commitment to get to a certain level of Smart Ticketing and their plan was always to move Seasons onto Smart; no chance of making the target otherwise.

If they are unable to meet the target, perhap they should spend less money on advertizing and more on fixing the problems that is stopping people changing rather than try forcing people.

I know loads of people who say they want to switch to a smartcard season, so they don't need to get the ticket reprinted several times a year, but are unable to due to various issues and restrictions, which make the paper ticket the preference even with the fading/demagnetising issues. The advantages don't outweight the disadvantages for me.

 

[HH]

If they are unable to meet the target, perhap they should spend less money on advertizing and more on fixing the problems that is stopping people changing rather than try forcing people.

I know loads of people who say they want to switch to a smartcard season, so they don't need to get the ticket reprinted several times a year, but are unable to due to various issues and restrictions, which make the paper ticket the preference even with the fading/demagnetising issues. The advantages don't outweight the disadvantages for me.

As I said; I agree the Smartcards aren't great. In fact I told them they should be called Dumbcards.

I'm just explaining that moving all seasons to Smart is a franchise commitment, i.e. it is contractually required by DfT.

 

[MikeWM]

I'm holder of a couple of Smart Tickets, a SWR one (well SWT) which curently has no ticket on it, however when it did, it wasn't any good on journey breaks (luckily all intermediate stations were barrier less) but if I tried to touch in, it would tell me not valid. - when i got it, i was sent a Gold Record Card.

If a guard wanted to see my ticket, they would either trust my record card, or they would scan the card to see if there was a valid ticket stored on it.

..so in other words, with the smart card, you have to carry three things rather than two, the card doesn't work as well as a paper ticket, and it isn't clear which thing you're supposed to show to staff when asked.

And people wonder why some are reluctant to embrace this?

GA - please make it work as well as what it is replacing before forcing me to change...

 

[Wivenswold]

..so in other words, with the smart card, you have to carry three things rather than two,

Those three things will still be lighter than the phone everyone's happy to carry around with them these days. 1st world problems and all that.

 

[OneOffDave]

Those three things will still be lighter than the phone everyone's happy to carry around with them these days. 1st world problems and all that.

They are lighter than a lot of things but don't replace those things so there's not a lot of point making the comparison. By it's very nature isn't everything to do with the UK a 1st world issue anyway?

 

[gswindale]

Last year, we had a holiday on the Isle of Man and used the rail/tram network reasonably extensively.

As a result of that, we had to purchase a smart card, which I believe was an ITSO card.

I have our cards still sitting in my jacket pocket and think it would be great if I could purchase my SWR tickets online and have them linked to my card. This would save having to either queue at a ticket office or wait for a ticket machine to print them out.

 

[route:oxford]

What concerns me in this thread, and others like it, is that the perception is that it's a problem for the customer if a member of rail staff is unable to "read" a smartcard.

Absolutely no way should this be the case. If a passenger holds a valid ticket, they are holding a valid ticket. It is the railway indusry's problem if the person inspecting the presented ticket is incapable of reading it.

If it ended up in court, the judge is unlikely to be sympathetic with an industry that has failed to meet a franchise commitment.

 

[Sleepy]

What concerns me in this thread, and others like it, is that the perception is that it's a problem for the customer if a member of rail staff is unable to "read" a smartcard.

Absolutely no way should this be the case. If a passenger holds a valid ticket, they are holding a valid ticket. It is the railway indusry's problem if the person inspecting the presented ticket is incapable of reading it.

If it ended up in court, the judge is unlikely to be sympathetic with an industry that has failed to meet a franchise commitment.

Couldn't agree more - this is probably why during 9 out of 10 ticket inspections smart card holders are not scanned !

 

[Sleepy]

I have heard about issues loading tickets on to cards again this week.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Will the Smartcard open the barriers at a London Overground station?

 

[Starmill]

A question for the floor:

Is an Ilford to London Liverpool Street Annual Season available on a Smartcard? It is of course significantly cheaper than an Annual Zones 1-4 Travelcard on Oyster.

 

[Hadders]

A question for the floor:

Is an Ilford to London Liverpool Street Annual Season available on a Smartcard? It is of course significantly cheaper than an Annual Zones 1-4 Travelcard on Oyster.

I doubt it as it's priced by TfL Rail and the only smartcard they have is Oyster and point-to-point season tickets aren't available on Oyster.

 

[Starmill]

Perhaps the more salient example there was the Romford to London Liverpool Street Annual Season, and the comparison to the Zones 1-6 Annual Travelcard! However, I believe the point stands.

Going through the Greater Anglia website reveals only the paper season option. Of course there could be something I have missed?

 

[Hadders]

Romford - Liverpool Street is also priced by TfL Rail. The same thing happens all over London. Take The Key, it can't be used for something like an Enfield Chase - London Terminals season ticket, paper tickets only yet GTR are trying to convert everyone outside of London.

 

[MikeWM]

I see adverts at stations and stuff on GA's website about this now. I've still no idea as to the answer to most of these questions though...

- Currently not all GA routes can have a smartcard. Is this going to change in November too or is this only for the routes that only have smartcard availability now?

...well it appears to be for the whole of GA, from the publicity.

- Currently you have to order the card through the post. Presumably this will change - surely people will still be able to go to a ticket office and buy a ticket there and then, rather than having to wait x days?

So far it seems not. This seems quite astonishing. Am I missing the point?

- How do the existing cards work with other operators? Eg. XC to Stansted on a Cambridge-London season?

- How do the existing cards work with passback? Eg. if I’m on a station and the train is late and I pop back through the barriers to get a drink or whatever, the paper ticket is then rejected by the gate. In this case I can show it to the person manning the gateline. And with a smartcard...?

The answer for both of these questions for an annual would appear to be 'show the Gold Record Card'. But what about other period seasons?

- Presumably the existing cards open gates, but don’t *require* touch in/out?

...apparently so, although GA's website has some weasel words about not always working at intermediate stations due to 'software updates'.


I really, really don't like being forced to have an inferior product - at least until issues have been fixed and it is at least as good as what we already have. I'm very disappointed GA have gone down this route.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It says:

We're switching to Smart Cards from 31 October. When you renew or buy a new monthly, custom duration or annual season ticket, paper will not be an option. Apply for your Smart Card online if you don't already have one. If you prefer to do it in person nearly all ticket offices can issue Smart Cards and Smart Card Season tickets.

on the website. So stations should have them.

 

[MikeWM]

It says:

<stuff>

on the website. So stations should have them.

Yes, but the direct link from what you've quoted says

'After you've received your smart card'... (you can put a season ticket on it)

and elsewhere on that page it says

How to get started
...
There are three easy steps to get started:

1. Apply for your free Greater Anglia Smart Card online
2. We'll send your personalised Smart Card within three working days.
3. Once you receive your card, log into your online account and purchase or renew your Season Ticket. Please leave at least two hours between purchasing your Season Ticket and collecting it at the station. You can also purchase your season ticket and have it loaded onto your card at any of the stations listed here.

Smart Cards can be used for Weekly, Monthly and Annual Season Tickets.

At best, that page is highly ambiguous as to whether there will be a new process in place from next month.

Also, the images I've seen show the owner's name shown on the card, like on a credit card (the 'personalised' part mentioned in the above quote, presumably). I can't imagine 'nearly all ticket offices' having the ability to create those on demand.

 

[PeterC]

I don't see why people are hung up about carrying a record card as well. This has been required with many paper seasons for decades, I always had both in a credit card wallet. When Oyster came in I had both in the Oyster wallet.