Greater Anglia Good and Bad Discussion

[ushawk]

The "toilet story" ironically belongs in the toilet. How anyone could think or believe it is beyond me. The train lost its pantograph, damaged multiple registration arms and pulled down 1/4 mile of cable...how does an over flowing toilet do all that?

Just a made up story to try and cause more anger at AGA - simple. That line seems to get more anger and abuse sent to its Twitter account than any other, some people are obsessed with tweeting AGA and moaning (literally EVERY tweet from some people every single day !!).

If you really think a toilet can bring down 1/4 mile of OHLE, then frankly you need your head putting down a toilet and having it flushed on you.

 

[hassaanhc]

It actually bought down over a mile of wires https://twitter.com/greateranglia/status/562650508687859712/photo/1

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There have been a few pictures posted that AGA have picked up on and gone 'which carriage number please?' to which I immediately think 'but they all look like that!'

I try not to post stuff that just shows somewhat threadbare seats - it's bad, but every train is like it and it doesn't impact passenger comfort all that much. Seats missing / broken off, however, I think is worthy cause for complaint. A bit like the campaigning for full replacement of every Class 321 - almost all of the truly terrible images posted are of Mk3s or 317s. The 321s tend just to have dirty floors (if it's an issue at all, a cleaning issue, not one of the rolling stock), litter (same here) or overflowing toilets, the latter I'll admit is nasty but again, not really a dealbreaker.

It's not a greatly popular view within the group but while I do think new rolling stock is necessary simply to deal with shortages and allow for potential service frequency improvements, I think replacing the 321s outright is a waste. What they do need is a proper refurbishment, to a somewhat higher standard than the demonstrator - by which I mean plug doors, a different model of PIS that doesn't perpetually go wrong, and an AC traction package. If every Mk3 EMU could be upgraded to this standard for a substantial cost saving over new stock, which I see no reason why not, I say they go for it - 317s first.

Ultimately, I'm mildly annoyed if my train is dirty or full of litter but it bothers me far less than even a 10 minute delay. I would argue service reliability is far and away the biggest problem with the franchise. If the shabby trains are responsible, time to fix that. Fact is though, like with the current Southend branch disruption, there's a lot more to it than that.

Given that an interior refresh for the Class 360 has been announced, constantly posting about the threadbare seats is just a waste of time. Yes they shouldn't have got like that, although it does point to poor quality materials chosen as many trains haven't had any new seats for longer and look better.

I would also be surprised if plug doors are installed on the 321s. Replacing the air powered mechanisms with electric ones, as done to the 315 fleet a few years ago, is probably more likely if the current reliability of the doors is poor.

 

[306024]

One positive thing I've noticed today is that Greater Anglia have changed the announcements about late-running/delayed trains. Instead of the rather condescending "We would like to thank customers for their patience whilst waiting for the xx service to <destination>, which is now expected to depart in x minutes.", we now have "the xx service to <destination> is delayed, and is expected to depart in x minutes. This is due to a <reason>. We are sorry for the inconvenience caused" being used, which is far better.

And thank heavens for that, although I hadn't noticed as contrary to what you read on here my trains have been on time the past few days. It was the most crass announcement ever so I really hope it has been consigned to Room 101 , and whoever was responsible given a one way ticket to Utrecht.

 

[samuelmorris]

Agreed, I still heard the announcement at the tail end of last week, but hopefully it's gone now. Used to bug me a little

As for the doors, I don't really know how practical it will be, but I'd consider it an important part of the build. It's not so much for door reliability (though that may be an issue) but really passenger comfort. The existing design is dreadful for rattling, strong draughts, and at high speeds a very loud sudden bang when another train passes. Probably given at least a handful of people unnecessary heart attacks over the years! Replacing the air mechanism with an electric one will solve none of those problems. I genuinely believe this is the single biggest failing of 321448 - it ruins the fact that the unit would otherwise be much more pleasant and quiet inside than a regular 321. The garish colour scheme is a void comment as the rest of the fleet will never be in those colours. The seating, while a bit on the low side, is perfectly comfortable enough in either side of the unit. The only other possible improvement is not using the same PIS as other 321s which we already know to be unreliable at best. If the 321 bodyshell doesn't lend itself to any other door mechanism though, I'm not sure the units can ever provide a passenger experience on a par with post-privatisation rolling stock.

 

[EssexCommuter]

One positive thing I've noticed today is that Greater Anglia have changed the announcements about late-running/delayed trains. Instead of the rather condescending "We would like to thank customers for their patience whilst waiting for the xx service to <destination>, which is now expected to depart in x minutes.", we now have "the xx service to <destination> is delayed, and is expected to depart in x minutes. This is due to a <reason>. We are sorry for the inconvenience caused" being used, which is far better.

I had emailed about this several times. In my opinion they were unnecessarily annoying passengers, and to remove these new announcements would be an easy win.

I finally received this reply last week:
"Our intention was never to annoy anyone, however we do realise the phrasing of these announcements has irritated a number of customers. In response to this feedback, you will be pleased to know that this announcement is being replaced imminently. As of next week, we will move away from this completely.

We are removing all elements of thanking customers for their patience and will replace this with a message that confirms the delay, provides an approximate departure time, gives the reason for the delay and apologises for the inconvenience. I hope that you will find this a more satisfactory announcement."

I am delighted that they have finally listened to passengers on this subject

 

[Wayneh]

Agree with comments on infantile logo.
It will change.
Sadly I do not moderate the site, otherwise it would not be there in the first place.
Happy to email minutes to anyone who wants them.

They will not appear publicly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Amendments made.

The site logo detracted from the message.

 

[TheEdge]

Happy to email minutes to anyone who wants them.

They will not appear publicly.

I still just don't get this logic. Public website, public campaign, come to our meeting, tell us your stories. Minutes are staying private...

 

[387star]

Regarding refurbishments I might be going fuzzy but didn't nxea refurbish one of their 321s at least partially with leather seating etc then return it to original condition? Are there any pics of this temporary refurbishment? How does it compare to the current 446?

I also remember reading in a rail magazine nxea planned a major refresh of the 317/6 and 321 fleets but obviously this never got off the ground save for a few 317/6s ?

How is the 317/7 and 321 demonstrator going down with the public are their views being actively sought ?

 

[nesw]

The new logo for the website & Facebook page still show no connection to this "East Anglia Passenger Voice" group and remain in the style of the Twitter Troll "Delayed Again".

Abellio Fail? Not sure it's Abellio who are failing.

http://abellio.greaterangliacomplaints.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/abellio.greateranglia.complaints

 

[Wayneh]

Not terribly private Edge if you can email me for a copy at [email protected]

Otherwise debate from the outside.

Several MPs and GE candidates have engaged with us.

If you guys want to hide behind usernames, leave it with you.

 

[TheEdge]

Have some genuine questions Wayneh. Please try to reply with the minimum amount of bluster and hyperbole.

I'd be interested to know where the majority of the complaints and complainers are travelling from. Its seems that the vast majority of them are from either the Southend line, Shenfield or Chelmsford. North of Colchester seems to produce far less complaints, or at least it seems that way. And they use the same stock and suffer the same delays.

Can you understand and accept there are things the TOC can do nothing about overcrowding? Peak time trains from a station with an annual footfall of 63m, many then calling 5 minutes later at a station with an annual footfall of 26m are going to be crowded. I see tonight people are complaining the 1900 was full and standing. Again, first off peak after the evening peak, course it will be busy, same goes for the 1600 as the last off peak before the peak.

Would you accept Chelmsford being taken out of most or all of the London - Norwich services? Most peaks and a few of the busiest off peaks already have it removed but the remainder could do without. And for the Norwich in 90 its probably going to have to happen eventually.

Also, how do you expect AGA (or any TOC) to alleviate peak crowding into and out of Liverpool Street? The GEML runs damn near close to capacity and the only way of lengthening trains is a complete rebuild of the platforms and throat at Liverpool Street (just to start!). The only realistic chance of a capacity increase is when the Norwich services eventually go over to an EMU service and loose the "dead" space in the loco and DVT.

 

[nesw]

I'm not posting on here to be insulted and I suggest you think carefully when replying to posts, particularly as you aim to appeal to stakeholders and other's who may listen.

 

[samuelmorris]

TheEdge: My recollection from the meeting was that most people who were active in the group on the GEML were from Chelmsford, Marks Tey and Colchester. As a (near) Shenfield commuter I was a comparative minority. Of the complaints sent into the twitter feed, they come from pretty much all over.

ml: I don't remember that personally, but I used the line far less back in the NXEA days than I do now. Views were sought on the 321 demonstrator at least, and I assume also the 317 demonstrator, when they were first introduced, but as a regular passenger I don't recall seeing anything from the TOC subsequently about what they intend to do with the feedback they received.

Still not all that happy with the new logo. Why does the fail stamp need to be there?

 

[EssexCommuter]

I'd be interested to know where the majority of the complaints and complainers are travelling from. Its seems that the vast majority of them are from either the Southend line, Shenfield or Chelmsford. North of Colchester seems to produce far less complaints, or at least it seems that way. And they use the same stock and suffer the same delays.

Passengers travelling to stations between London and Southend/Colchester must surely make up the vast majority? However I will tell you why there are less complaints from north of Colchester. I used to commute from Ipswich to Norwich, and from Ipswich to London. Yes the intercities are older than the 321s. However they are ALWAYS given priority. For example, last week one of the I/Cs was running late so they held otherwise on time trains at COL. Ok, I just about accept that. But then my train was held at Witham to let another I/C through that was due into LST AFTER my train. It resulted in 4 trains being late instead of 1. But guess what, crucially PPM/payouts wouldn't be affected.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Can you understand and accept there are things the TOC can do nothing about overcrowding? Peak time trains from a station with an annual footfall of 63m, many then calling 5 minutes later at a station with an annual footfall of 26m are going to be crowded. I see tonight people are complaining the 1900 was full and standing. Again, first off peak after the evening peak, course it will be busy, same goes for the 1600 as the last off peak before the peak.

The problem with the 1900 is that is reserved to the max. Very little hope for commuters. My colleagues with season tickets on other TOCs are allowed to reserve seats. Maybe this has changed on AGA, but I asked repeatedly last year and got no answer. I nearly always get the slow train now because I simply can't bear fighting for a seat on the 1900. Of course it will be busy being the first off peak, but why not some consideration for S/T holders?

 

[Jala_150]

The new logo for the website & Facebook page still show no connection to this "East Anglia Passenger Voice" group and remain in the style of the Twitter Troll "Delayed Again".

Abellio Fail? Not sure it's Abellio who are failing.

http://abellio.greaterangliacomplaints.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/abellio.greateranglia.complaints

Totally agree... If this group wants to start a dialogue with AGA & NR, they need to come away from the delayed again troll account mentality.

 

[samuelmorris]

Essex commuter: passively observing service availability from Liverpool Street I would say that, over the past few months at least, the intercity services to Norwich have been the most often cancelled, by quite some margin. Perhaps it's just coincidence when I've been looking at the screens but they do seem to have suffered badly.
Conversely, despite commuting into London and back at least 3-4 times a week and using AGA services for roughly half of that over that time (and almost exclusively for the past few months) it's been 2 years since I've actually been delayed long enough to be eligible for a single delay repay claim. Now AGA's services are almost unfailingly 3-5 minutes late when I use them but as a Shenfield commuter, very seldom so late that it causes a major issue.

 

[chubs]

I don't understand why your refuse to release the minutes either, you want to appeal to as many people as possible and with a few extreme exceptions on eitheside of the debate there is a pretty broad section of people here who either work the lines or regularly travel on them.

I'd join a passenger group but the logo is as bad as it was before, I avoid these kind of groups who's only solution is abuse via twitter and stamping their feet. Get a decent logo (not a copy of GA's with some stupid twist on it) an form a proper passenger voice group.

 

[badassunicorn]

I suppose the anglia sets have the biggest potential to cause delays to other services, and so get priority. Also, I'm assuming a 1xxx headcode automatically takes priority over a 2xxx??

 

[TheEdge]

I fear this thread may have just died a death. Main poster for the anti-GA campaign has been banned...

 

[90sWereBetter]

A strange set of affairs indeed. He seemed to be fairly civil in his posting, unless it was a PM that caused it.

 

[dk1]

The problem with the 1900 is that is reserved to the max. Very little hope for commuters. My colleagues with season tickets on other TOCs are allowed to reserve seats. Maybe this has changed on AGA, but I asked repeatedly last year and got no answer. I nearly always get the slow train now because I simply can't bear fighting for a seat on the 1900. Of course it will be busy being the first off peak, but why not some consideration for S/T holders?

The 19:00 used to be first stop Manningtree then under 'one' Shenfield (pu) & Colchester where added. It was obvious to most that this would cause issues & it has done ever since. There was even a plan to introduce a 18:50 FO Norwich using a scratch set of coaches but this was scuppered by the chance of a spare 90 & the possible expense if they needed to hire in.

 

[387star]

Replying to my earlier post...


Nxea refurbished one coach of 321332 as a trial then reverted to a standard interior when the works were called off! Leather seats in first class I think as well

Identical to the abellio refresh so obviously they had spare nxea upholstery

https://www.flickr.com/photos/39918...dJG-hB76k4-r2gERx-4iLebY-hNS9ck-oLZwqd-atijpF

 

[EssexCommuter]

Essex commuter: passively observing service availability from Liverpool Street I would say that, over the past few months at least, the intercity services to Norwich have been the most often cancelled, by quite some margin. Perhaps it's just coincidence when I've been looking at the screens but they do seem to have suffered badly.
Conversely, despite commuting into London and back at least 3-4 times a week and using AGA services for roughly half of that over that time (and almost exclusively for the past few months) it's been 2 years since I've actually been delayed long enough to be eligible for a single delay repay claim. Now AGA's services are almost unfailingly 3-5 minutes late when I use them but as a Shenfield commuter, very seldom so late that it causes a major issue.

You are very fortunate indeed. Just submitted my claim for the 57 minute delay I suffered last week. Luckily for AGA, it's just under the 60 minute 100% threshold.

 

[306024]

The 19:00 used to be first stop Manningtree then under 'one' Shenfield (pu) & Colchester where added. It was obvious to most that this would cause issues & it has done ever since. There was even a plan to introduce a 18:50 FO Norwich using a scratch set of coaches but this was scuppered by the chance of a spare 90 & the possible expense if they needed to hire in.

There is ample capacity on the 18.48 Livepool St to Clacton and some on the 19.08 Liverpool St to Ipswich so taking the Colchester call out of the 19.00 Liverpool St to Norwich would be the right thing to do, it just requires a brave decision.

 

[Jala_150]

A strange set of affairs indeed. He seemed to be fairly civil in his posting, unless it was a PM that caused it.

Yes very strange - I actually think he could do some good, he genuinely seems to want to improve things, which can only be a good thing for rail users and frontline staff alike. He just needs to steer the group away from the delayed_again mentality of anti AGA and more towards a GEML improvements group, which stakeholders like AGA and NR would be more open to entering discussions with.

With regards to the minutes of the meeting, maybe there are members of this group who would prefer to remain anonymous for various reasons, and that's why they are not being made public. But I would at least like to see what their goals are and how they expect to achieve those goals.

 

[MP33]

Since the problems on Monday and Tuesday there has been an absence of Network Rail senior managers in 1st class.

Has there been a late finishing crisis meeting every day?

 

[Wayneh]

Hi All

The notices of my demise were premature.

I certainly want to improve rail services in Anglia and, if that means using satire to achieve it. So be it.

I never use bad language or insult anyone. That will continue.

We are meeting Tue Feb 24 County Hotel Chelmsford.

We hope John Clarke Lab candidate for Witham and Suzy Stride, Lab for Harlow will be there.

Bob Russell, Mark Quince and Jordan Newell the Lib, Con and Lab want informing.

We are not publically publishing minutes. Join us to receive them and participate.

Otherwise just moan here.

We are getting things done, not waffling.

We have met NR senior managers in past weeks and have access to the Transport Sec.

Come and shape the East Anglia Passenger Voice 6pm County Hotel, Chelmsford Tue Feb 24.

 

[jon0844]

I still can't understand the desire to keep stuff secret, but there you go.

But good luck in your ventures. Just don't expect miracles from MPs or Councillors. In the run up to the election, they'll show interest in anything and promise the world.

Just wait and see what they do afterwards.

 

[TheEdge]

Hi All

The notices of my demise were premature.

Good, you did seem to be nicely shifting away from the ridiculous delayed again manner of debate.

I certainly want to improve rail services in Anglia and, if that means using satire to achieve it. So be it.

Which will immediately turn off NR and TOCs from playing.

We hope John Clarke Lab candidate for Witham and Suzy Stride, Lab for Harlow will be there.

Bob Russell, Mark Quince and Jordan Newell the Lib, Con and Lab want informing.

Until May, when they will stop caring...

 

[Wayneh]

Jon email me [email protected] they are not public documents.

Edge dark arts sometimes needed. Complicity achieves zero.

Expect nothing from politicians except they listen.