samuelmorris
Established Member
It does amuse me how hypocrisy in the anti-Abellio case (may well be true) is bad yet it's OK to mercilessly slate Bombardier at any opportunity 
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Greater Anglia Good and Bad Discussion
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Generally Bombardier trains are okay, and despite me having had many digs at the company (for things that I fully believe they deserve, as their quality control is pretty 'poor' to be diplomatic) I think the comments are generally fair.
Bombardier usually sort things out in the end, but deserve to be called out on things that they've done wrong (and complimented when they've done good). In the case of AGA, there's none of the positives from some people. A positive action is obviously just a cynical ploy from a greedy company with an agenda.
Bombardier usually sort things out in the end, but deserve to be called out on things that they've done wrong (and complimented when they've done good). In the case of AGA, there's none of the positives from some people. A positive action is obviously just a cynical ploy from a greedy company with an agenda.
Angliarailuser
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Sadly Jon I believe you are correct.
There is much cynicism in what Abellio do.
I like however their Twitter feed staying open longer to deal with complaints and Mr Burles commitment last week to work towards a 24 hr feed.
My train was late again today. 18 mins not enough for a refund but hey.
Bombardier I know well because they are clients of mine. Their trains are ok in my view but perceptions are everthing in life.
There is much cynicism in what Abellio do.
I like however their Twitter feed staying open longer to deal with complaints and Mr Burles commitment last week to work towards a 24 hr feed.
My train was late again today. 18 mins not enough for a refund but hey.
Bombardier I know well because they are clients of mine. Their trains are ok in my view but perceptions are everthing in life.
It's madness the button problem on the 379s. I gave up telling AGA who fed back my concerns to the engineers (but obviously they either didn't, or it was just ignored). AGA should be really up in arms with Bombardier about this (who in turn should be demanding replacements from their supplier) because it's a real accessibility issue.
But, the bigger problem is how there are always such huge teething problems introducing new fleets, although I think the 378s went quite well, and the 387s also had relatively few problems.
Remember too that Bombardier probably do a lot better in mainland Europe; it seems very much a problem with Derby, not the company as a whole.
But, the bigger problem is how there are always such huge teething problems introducing new fleets, although I think the 378s went quite well, and the 387s also had relatively few problems.
Remember too that Bombardier probably do a lot better in mainland Europe; it seems very much a problem with Derby, not the company as a whole.
Angliarailuser
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As a Nottingham man its nice to hear Dervy being slagged off.
Seriously the accessibility situations is a legal requirement under the Equalities Act 2010 and if Abellio and/or Bombadier have not had legal action against them they have been lucky.
Seriously the accessibility situations is a legal requirement under the Equalities Act 2010 and if Abellio and/or Bombadier have not had legal action against them they have been lucky.
It may well be a Derby issue, or it may be a systemic issue with Bombardier itself. I've heard many a story from drivers who sign or used to sign 379's of problems they encountered with the 379's. Points to bad design and construction. They seem to be overly complicated and the whole KISS engineering principle went completely out of the window.
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Would hardly say its mercilessly slating them. But I do get the feeling that because Bombardier trains are built in the UK they are out of bounds for scrutiny. After the whole Thameslink business with the media jumping on the fact the contract was given to Siemens over Bombardier and the then threat of closing the Derby plant, Bombardier were always going to win the Crossrail contract. Time will tell whether that is a good or bad decision. If you get a repeat of the 379's then Crossrail are in for a couple of years of train faults and cancellations through teething troubles. But I'm sure that will be perfectly ok by the anti AGA people because they are new trains and built by Bombardier.
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It does amuse me how hypocrisy in the anti-Abellio case (may well be true) is bad yet it's OK to mercilessly slate Bombardier at any opportunity
Would hardly say its mercilessly slating them. But I do get the feeling that because Bombardier trains are built in the UK they are out of bounds for scrutiny. After the whole Thameslink business with the media jumping on the fact the contract was given to Siemens over Bombardier and the then threat of closing the Derby plant, Bombardier were always going to win the Crossrail contract. Time will tell whether that is a good or bad decision. If you get a repeat of the 379's then Crossrail are in for a couple of years of train faults and cancellations through teething troubles. But I'm sure that will be perfectly ok by the anti AGA people because they are new trains and built by Bombardier.
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I didn't mean the whole of Derby though!!
Angliarailuser
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Some of us would query that Jon.
Another great Twitter thread (this time about a TVM struck by lightning).
https://twitter.com/hammmeroo/status/608166269788012544
https://twitter.com/hammmeroo/status/608166269788012544
samuelmorris
Established Member
I'm sticking to my guns on that one. In an ideal world that situation would be better, but I'm still on the side of the TOC for that particular issue. If there were no ticket windows it'd be a different story, but a slightly longer queue at the office due to clearly unforeseen (and not possible to foresee) events really isn't something you can bash the TOC about.
I see another ban in this thread? I wouldn't normally post about that sort of thing publicly but since there isn't much public info when it happens I'd kind of like to know about this one since it's clearly going to come up in the whole 'forum users are all apologists/enthusiasts' argument I have to contend with
The button issue you are more than rightful to complain about - as much for it not being dealt with on 379s 4 years on, to the fact that the same buttons are still being used on brand new 387s. Never mind that they fall off, you have to push the things damn hard for them to operate. Takes me by surprise every time I use one, usually have to press the button at least twice. They're dreadful and it is a negative for Bombardier that they haven't seen fit to deal with them. I'm rather hoping they're not bestowed on the 345s...
Getting off a 377 or 387 and onto a 360 or 450 does make a point - the Desiro clearly feels like a higher-quality product, even though the former is IMO leaps and bounds ahead of BR stock with hopper windows and the resulting deafening squeal out of Liverpool Street in summer when the windows are needed open to stop you cooking.
I see another ban in this thread? I wouldn't normally post about that sort of thing publicly but since there isn't much public info when it happens I'd kind of like to know about this one since it's clearly going to come up in the whole 'forum users are all apologists/enthusiasts' argument I have to contend with
The button issue you are more than rightful to complain about - as much for it not being dealt with on 379s 4 years on, to the fact that the same buttons are still being used on brand new 387s. Never mind that they fall off, you have to push the things damn hard for them to operate. Takes me by surprise every time I use one, usually have to press the button at least twice. They're dreadful and it is a negative for Bombardier that they haven't seen fit to deal with them. I'm rather hoping they're not bestowed on the 345s...
Getting off a 377 or 387 and onto a 360 or 450 does make a point - the Desiro clearly feels like a higher-quality product, even though the former is IMO leaps and bounds ahead of BR stock with hopper windows and the resulting deafening squeal out of Liverpool Street in summer when the windows are needed open to stop you cooking.
Wayne is talking about this on Twitter and advising people to come here and register under fake names, presumably to disrupt things.
He also obviously doesn't quite understand how Twitter works, as he's blocked me and presumably others, and doesn't realise we can still see what he's saying!
I think the word he used the other day was 'inept'. Very apt.
Isn't it strange how desperate he is to be involved with what he and others call the 'trainspotters forum'? I guess as someone acting like he's about 12 years old, he's probably giggling over that one!
He also obviously doesn't quite understand how Twitter works, as he's blocked me and presumably others, and doesn't realise we can still see what he's saying!
I think the word he used the other day was 'inept'. Very apt.
Isn't it strange how desperate he is to be involved with what he and others call the 'trainspotters forum'? I guess as someone acting like he's about 12 years old, he's probably giggling over that one!
I think we are all in agreement that major improvements are required on the GEML, but we all have different ideas and priorities. I think it's time these petty jabs at each other stop, maybe even this thread closed as its getting ridiculous. Rather than fighting amoungst each other why don't we use our experience/knowledge/skills both on the Railway and other industries to lobby/fight for improvements?
Probably the most intelligent post made in this thread for a long time.
samuelmorris
Established Member
I like to think that we are, but to be honest, actually rising to comments like those makes you little better. As has been pointed out, the back and forth achieves nothing - engaging with the TOC and DfT might not be successful, but it at least might achieve something.
Clarence Yard
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Well, the time for influencing the DfT is fast ending. The short list for the franchise has been announced and that means the data room will have been opened and the bidding teams will be hard at work analysing all the detail therein.
Once the ITT has been published with details of the TSR, then the framework of the bid will be fixed and it will be game on. Unfortunately it is a DfT red card offence for bidders to give away details of their bid during the bidding period so, however much discussion there is on various social media, we won't know much about the winning bid until it is announced.
Once the ITT has been published with details of the TSR, then the framework of the bid will be fixed and it will be game on. Unfortunately it is a DfT red card offence for bidders to give away details of their bid during the bidding period so, however much discussion there is on various social media, we won't know much about the winning bid until it is announced.
First 360 refresh has entered service
https://twitter.com/greateranglia/status/609375347709190144/photo/1
https://twitter.com/greateranglia/status/609375347709190144/photo/1
I agree.....
What was wrong with the original colour scheme? At least it co-ordinated with the rest of the vehicle. Perhaps the person responsible should have their eye sight checked - I think they may be a bit colour blind....
That is the only thing (beyond shockingly bad taste) to account for it. I wonder how long before it is changed because of the colours and be a another frightful waste of money?
What was wrong with the original colour scheme? At least it co-ordinated with the rest of the vehicle. Perhaps the person responsible should have their eye sight checked - I think they may be a bit colour blind....
That is the only thing (beyond shockingly bad taste) to account for it. I wonder how long before it is changed because of the colours and be a another frightful waste of money?
Dear oh dear..new seat covers finally and the colours are picked at! Have a day off eh! :P
Seems some people just can't not personally attack people or be happy and not moan, so very dull.
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Manchester77
Established Member
Looks like it's just new seat covers though as that looks like the first group carpet. At least something is being done, has anything been done underneath or with the electrics then or (as that drive said on the LO takeover thread) have they just not bothered.
badassunicorn
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Why are they not the same as the new ones on 317's? Seems an odd choice of colours really considering the corporate colours of Abellio. anything is surely an imporvement in the tatty ones at present
First 360 refresh has entered service
https://twitter.com/greateranglia/status/609375347709190144/photo/1
Looks good, except I see that floor getting filthy real quick :cry:
I think the colours are more about matching up with DDA/PRM TSI requirements, if you look at the refurbished 317/6 pic posted on Twitter
https://twitter.com/greateranglia/status/605712656733995008
the red in the seat covers matches that on the handrails and handrails.
On the 360s these are light blue so the seat covers match. And remember the 360s are just getting new seat covers the remainder of the interiors are OK and the underfloor equipment including bogies are being overhauled seperately.
https://twitter.com/greateranglia/status/605712656733995008
the red in the seat covers matches that on the handrails and handrails.
On the 360s these are light blue so the seat covers match. And remember the 360s are just getting new seat covers the remainder of the interiors are OK and the underfloor equipment including bogies are being overhauled seperately.
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dk1
Veteran Member
Looks a bit like it was taken with a cheap camera/phone in artificial light so may not be of the best image quality so not doing the refresh justice.
I hope they're better in the flesh, but ultimately they're better than they were.
The 317/6 seats are very nice (especially first class) so it is odd to learn they're trying to match handrails. I'd have thought there was no need or benefit in doing so.
The 317/6 seats are very nice (especially first class) so it is odd to learn they're trying to match handrails. I'd have thought there was no need or benefit in doing so.
samuelmorris
Established Member
What was wrong with the original colour scheme was that it was Firstgroup's corporate livery. No way were Abellio going to continue that, fair enough. The teal / grey stripes aren't inherently bad but far more fitting to metro stock than something like a 360 with carpets, and with the old purple carpets being left in, eugh, it's a horrible combination, I don't know what they were thinking. I know as well as anybody that the colour of the seat covers is far less important than them actually being changed, let alone more severe issues with the TOC as a whole, but still, this just seems thoughtless. The 317/6 refresh looks good in my opinion - I think if perhaps they also changed the carpets it might look less bad. The teal though, it's not really an Abellio colour is it?
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