Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[LAX54]

The article says 3 out of Norwich (which were Brundall Gardens/Haddiscoe/Spooner Row), and 2 out of Ipswich (Elmswell/Kennett).

Yes my error, misread that bit !

 

[samuelmorris]

If something is attributed to a fault with the signalling system or a train crew issue though it won't go against the figures for the 755s will it?

Why are TFLs 360s so bad? Did they always used te be below other family members?

I'm not sure with regard to the attribution 'behind the scenes' as it were, the cancellation codes that seem to be used are YI (late arrival of inbound service) so that's not quite so easy to predict. You're right, however, in that concealing the real reason from the public might also be having an SWT-effect on the figures.

As for TfL's 360s I'm honestly not sure, they've been panned for reliability since TfL took over and I don't really understand why one of, if not the most reliable rolling stock product in the UK is rock bottom in the EMUs table apart from the 9-car 345s which are a bit of an edge case at the moment to say the least. That's for discussion in another thread though.

 

[fat_boy_pete]

Next month? Those figures are taken from the annual TIN watch which was published a week or two ago. Are you expecting a decrease due to the 'signalling issue'?

That depends on the delay attribution! But it will set the comparative benchmark for the next period.

 

[RailWonderer]

As for TfL's 360s I'm honestly not sure, they've been panned for reliability since TfL took over and I don't really understand why one of, if not the most reliable rolling stock product in the UK is rock bottom in the EMUs table apart from the 9-car 345s which are a bit of an edge case at the moment to say the least

Not sure it requires another thread but the short answer is Heathrow Airport maintained them at Old Oak with the 332s, notoriously badly. It's been mentioned in other threads in the past. The GA 360s still have a Siemens maintenance contract.

 

[samuelmorris]

That depends on the delay attribution! But it will set the comparative benchmark for the next period.

Do we have a definitive date for when the "signalling issues" started so we can line it up?

 

[LAX54]

Do we have a definitive date for when the "signalling issues" started so we can line it up?

Not sure an exact date can / will ever be found ? but I understand there were 'issues' as soon as the leaves fell, there were certainly traction issues in the wet, but that is of no surprise when the sander is not on the driving wheels !

 

[86246]

Encouraging that the first two services today have run to Peterborough.

I’m not sure when the last time that happened. Probably the first time since the 153s went.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I'm not sure with regard to the attribution 'behind the scenes' as it were, the cancellation codes that seem to be used are YI (late arrival of inbound service) so that's not quite so easy to predict. You're right, however, in that concealing the real reason from the public might also be having an SWT-effect on the figures.

I've had a look through RTT over the past few days and there does seem to be a lot of using code YI, late arrival of inbound service for the Peterborough line, although it does seem to be running normally today.

What was interesting, was there seems to be very little train fault attributions. There's a couple of trains I've been on this week that have been announced at stations as train faults which are now attributed to something else, such as unknown, signalling failure, crew issues etc.

 

[dk1]

Encouraging that first two services today have run to Peterborough.

I’m not sure when the last that happened. Probably the first time since the 153s went.

Trying hard to keep any remaining 156s & 170271 allocated to that route.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Not sure it requires another thread but the short answer is Heathrow Airport maintained them at Old Oak with the 332s, notoriously badly. It's been mentioned in other threads in the past. The GA 360s still have a Siemens maintenance contract.

The GA 360s are no longer on a full service contract with Siemens that they had from being delivered as new. A maintenance only contract was signed up until 2019. No idea if it has been renewed or what type of contract they have now.

Did the TFL ones fall off a cliff after TFL taking over or were they always that bad? If it was very suddenly it makes you wonder if there are any differences between the two maintainers and the way they attributed delays/cancellations.

 

[LAX54]

Encouraging that the first two services today have run to Peterborough.

I’m not sure when the last time that happened. Probably the first time since the 153s went.

Full service planned today, so assume they have more units available / serviceable to work other circuits, well for now anyway !

 

[Railperf]

Full service planned today, so assume they have more units available / serviceable to work other circuits, well for now anyway !

With legacy stock or 755s?

 

[LAX54]

With legacy stock or 755s?

All 156's I think, maybe 'the' 170 too, not sure

 

[dk1]

With legacy stock or 755s?

755s not permitted in service Ely-Peterborough. All legacy stock.

 

[LAX54]

With legacy stock or 755s?

156402 and 156422 are diagrammed today

 

[Class 170101]

Trying hard to keep any remaining 156s & 170271 allocated to that route.

About time this happened.

 

[F Great Eastern]

About time this happened.

Greater Anglia's argument for the last few weeks has been that the trains were cancelled because of the 'earlier signalling fault' that meant that they could not get the new trains on the line because of a lack of time to get staff and trains cleared to run on that route.

Now we see they are able to run on that line with legacy rolling stock, which begs the question, why they haven't been able to diagram the old stock on this line for the past couple of weeks and diagram the new stock on the other lines, since that was surely the sensible thing to do.

Are the people who allocate trains to services so bad at their job that they'll allocate all the trains that can run on the Peterborough Line to other services and then have some 755s left over that are stuck with no work as they can't diagram them on the Peterborough services, or is there perhaps, another reason....

 

[F Great Eastern]

There's a 6 car MK3 set running around this morning, from what I've heard.

 

[86246]

There's a 6 car MK3 set running around this morning, from what I've heard.

Yes, journey check has coaches B and C locked out of use. The first part of the diagram (08:00 to London and 10:30 to Norwich) was cancelled this morning.

 

[86246]

156402 and 156422 are diagrammed today

With 156407 and 156419 running between Ipswich - Cambridge plus whatever is on the Sudbury branch, that can't leave GA much to play with.

 

[RailWonderer]

The GA 360s are no longer on a full service contract with Siemens that they had from being delivered as new. A maintenance only contract was signed up until 2019. No idea if it has been renewed or what type of contract they have now.

Did the TFL ones fall off a cliff after TFL taking over or were they always that bad? If it was very suddenly it makes you wonder if there are any differences between the two maintainers and the way they attributed delays/cancellations.

I knew August 2019 was when the lease ran out, then you mentioned a while back it was extended to August 2020 so I assumed the Siemens maintenance (at least partial not full) was included in that.

I've been to Heathrow twice lately and I used Connect/TfL and the state of them on the inside with the mucky carpets and grime resembles the GA ones. I haven't been on them enough to know if Connect was any better, but they have covered for 332s in the past and were known to be more reliable. It's a shorter route to keep reliable with a smaller fleet compared to GA so cancellations didn't have such a consequence.

 

[Railperf]

Greater Anglia's argument for the last few weeks has been that the trains were cancelled because of the 'earlier signalling fault' that meant that they could not get the new trains on the line because of a lack of time to get staff and trains cleared to run on that route.

Now we see they are able to run on that line with legacy rolling stock, which begs the question, why they haven't been able to diagram the old stock on this line for the past couple of weeks and diagram the new stock on the other lines, since that was surely the sensible thing to do.

Are the people who allocate trains to services so bad at their job that they'll allocate all the trains that can run on the Peterborough Line to other services and then have some 755s left over that are stuck with no work as they can't diagram them on the Peterborough services, or is there perhaps, another reason....

Isn't it a lack of trained drivers outside Norwich to drive 755s? No surprise the 755s are focused on Norwich based diagrams..with a few Ipswich drivers doing the Cambridge run. You need the legacy stock for Sudbury branch. And for any Ipswich diagrams where drivers aren't signed for the 755s. Are there that many people using Peterboro to Ely that cannot fit on the XC /EMR services?

 

[Railperf]

Greater Anglia's argument for the last few weeks has been that the trains were cancelled because of the 'earlier signalling fault' that meant that they could not get the new trains on the line because of a lack of time to get staff and trains cleared to run on that route.

Now we see they are able to run on that line with legacy rolling stock, which begs the question, why they haven't been able to diagram the old stock on this line for the past couple of weeks and diagram the new stock on the other lines, since that was surely the sensible thing to do.

Are the people who allocate trains to services so bad at their job that they'll allocate all the trains that can run on the Peterborough Line to other services and then have some 755s left over that are stuck with no work as they can't diagram them on the Peterborough services, or is there perhaps, another reason....

I am very reliably told that there are no 755 ASDO issues between Peterboro and Ely. This main issue is a lack of trained drivers..and available rolling stock. It seems more 755/3s are being accepted..but not enough Ipswich / Colchester drivers trained to run any kind of 755 diagram to Peterboro yet.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I am very reliably told that there are no 755 ASDO issues between Peterboro and Ely. This main issue is a lack of trained drivers..and available rolling stock. It seems more 755/3s are being accepted..but not enough Ipswich / Colchester drivers trained to run any kind of 755 diagram to Peterboro yet.

If nobody is trained on the 755s on the Peterborough line, but are on other lines, then the sensible allocation would be to ensure that on those lines where 755s can run, they do run and the legacy rolling stock is not run on those lines but saved for the lines that cannot take the new stock. This is not rocket science, it's basics of allocating stock sensibly as well as efficiently and in a way to run the most services possible.

You say that it is about a lack of rolling stock but nowhere have Greater Anglia said that this is the case, on a number of occasions recently they have said they have a bigger fleet now than before the new trains. If it is really a problem with a lack of rolling stock then there's a delay/cancellation reason for that, but they have never used it....

On another note today I was on a TPE service and an announcement was made that a train was short formed due to more trains than normal needing repair at the same time and another announcement for one being affected by a lack of serviceable rolling stock so that clearly is an option that GA could use, if it indeed was the case (although it isn't)

 

[WroxhamTroll]

GA are masters of the short form and also the inaccurate reason for cancellation. There is no way to short form the 755's and the remaining 170 and 156's are in the same boat. The 90's and Mk3 have been short formed since the summer.

Not enough stock, not enough trained drivers are the genuine reasons or signalling issues down as GA normally describes it

WT

 

[dk1]

ASDO is not cleared for Ely-Peterborough yet thus the emphasis & responsibility would be on drivers which is not acceptable hence their lack of any use across the Fens. Ipswich now have around 20 drivers cleared for 755s & Colchester are being trained at a decent rate.

 

[F Great Eastern]

ASDO is not cleared for Ely-Peterborough yet thus the emphasis & responsibility would be on drivers which is not acceptable hence their lack of any use across the Fens.

That contradicts the official line from Greater Anglia, who say they are cleared to run on the route and the problem is driver shortages caused by faults with the signalling system rather than issues with the trains software and ASDO functions.

 

[dk1]

That contradicts the official line from Greater Anglia, who say they are cleared to run on the route and the problem is driver shortages caused by faults with the signalling system.

Not what I was told by an Ipswich based colleague yesterday. If that was the case a Stadler would have stood in occasionally if trained crew where available rather than cancel & it's not happened yet. The Manea crossing issue remains so it's not entirely untrue.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Not what I was told by an Ipswich based colleague yesterday. If that was the case a Stadler would have stood in occasionally if trained crew where available rather than cancel & it's not happened yet. The Manea crossing issue remains so it's not entirely untrue.

I'm not saying what you say is untrue, I'm merely stating that in the local press in the Q&A with Greater Anglia, it says

The new Stadler trains have been passed to run on the route, now the company is teaching its Ipswich-based drivers to operate them on this route.

 

[dk1]

I'm not saying what you say is untrue, I'm merely stating that in the local press in the Q&A with Greater Anglia, it says

They are cleared to run but it's ASDO that's helping hold things up in the same way it did at Brundall Gardens, Haddiscoe & Spooner. It has to work or Trains cannot call.