'Greater Anglia train company ditches First Class from 2020'

[_toommm_]

Quite an interesting article from The Guardian - Greater Anglia to remove First Class from all but its InterCity Norwich-London services from 2020. What are people's thoughts on this who use GA regularly?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news...a-train-company-ditches-first-class-from-2020

A train company is to scrap first-class compartments from most of its trains to create more room for standard-class passengers.

Greater Anglia announced that the policy would come into effect on 2 January 2020. The firm is replacing all its trains with new, longer versions from the middle of next year.

Only its new intercity trains – which run between Norwich, Ipswich, Colchester and London – will have first-class seating. All other trains on commuter and regional routes will be fully standard class.

Martin Moran, Greater Anglia’s commercial and customer services director, said: “With the combination of withdrawing first class and our new longer trains, we can provide about 20% more standard seats across our network, which will reduce overcrowding and improve our customers’ experience of travelling with us.

"After listening to customer feedback, assessing the ongoing increases in passenger numbers and taking account of the rail network capacity, we’re taking this step to give the majority of our customers a much-improved service and advising everyone well in advance of the date from which the new policy will apply.”

The operator has written to all first-class annual season ticket holders to inform them about the plan, with details of how to swap a first-class ticket for a standard ticket towards the end of next year.

The new trains will feature more seats, USB and plug points, air conditioning and free wifi.

Department for Transport figures show that almost 170,000 passengers were forced to stand during the morning peak in 14 cities in England and Wales last year, equivalent to one in five passengers.

The transport secretary, Chris Grayling, has previously called for first class to be scrapped on commuter routes to ease overcrowding.

 

[EssexGonzo]

If it means more seating overall, good decision. On the Colchester, Clacton and Southend trains, I rarely see the tiny 1st class compartments more than about 25% occupied, even at peak.

I get that some will bleat about the lack of choice but this is an overcrowded mass transit system used mostly for commuting rather than a long haul operation.

I guess that the Norwich trains are somewhat beyond the tipping point between the need for capacity and revenue benefits so that seems to make sense. I also guess that Ipswich/Colchester/Chelmsford travellers will have the choice of waiting for the Norwich service Flirts rather than slumming it on the Aventras.

 

[humbersidejim]

I quite like the fact that, by the sound of it, they are retaining the "proper" first class inter-city services with catering etc, whilst removing the "pseudo" first class compartment on shorter services which really only offer people the opportunity to pay a premium for the privilege of a seat.

This should benefit the vast majority of commuters.

 

[TubeMapCentral]

Um, with, say, 24 1st class seats in a class 360 unit becoming 30 Standard Class seats, and if we were to assume 64 people standing from Chelmsford to London (8 per doorway) then we are not seeing the "vast majority" of even standing commuters benefitting, even if those 1st class seats would have been empty.

 

[humbersidejim]

Um, with, say, 24 1st class seats in a class 360 unit becoming 30 Standard Class seats, and if we were to assume 64 people standing from Chelmsford to London (8 per doorway) then we are not seeing the "vast majority" of even standing commuters benefitting, even if those 1st class seats would have been empty.

"Vast majority" are standard class ticket holders. Even with the displaced first class passengers, freeing up the space from the First compartment creates greater seating capacity overall and a less cramped travelling environment for everyone else, so I stand by "Vast majority".

Further, isn't this change happening as a result of fleet renewal? Therefore comparing capacity changes on a 360 to new units is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Starmill]

The removal of First Class from Stansted Express services seems odd. I would have thought that this is almost money for nothing. Tourists and businesses seem perfectly happy to pay the fare for the modicum of extra comfort and dedicated luggage space currently on offer.

I don't see the point of First Class at all on the other routes, except of course for Norwich to London, where First Class will remain.

This isn't news, either, it has been known about since the franchise award.

 

[DarloRich]

Quite an interesting article from The Guardian - Greater Anglia to remove First Class from all but its InterCity Norwich-London services from 2020. What are people's thoughts on this who use GA regularly?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news...a-train-company-ditches-first-class-from-2020

Good. More seats for us plebs. If only.london midland would do the same

 

[Bletchleyite]

The removal of First Class from Stansted Express services seems odd. I would have thought that this is almost money for nothing. Tourists and businesses seem perfectly happy to pay the fare for the modicum of extra comfort and dedicated luggage space currently on offer.

I do agree with this - furthermore, it would make sense for all the FLIRTs to be the same.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Good. More seats for us plebs. If only.london midland would do the same

To be honest, London Northwestern Railway First is so frequently declassified and not much nicer than standard anyway they might as well ditch it completely, I agree. If people want first class comfort they can use Virgin Trains.

 

[superkev]

Bearing in mind the fares to me all intercity rail travel should be first class.
K

 

[TubeMapCentral]

I'm sure that if AGA had gone to the expense (now there's the clue) of fitting out the new trains with first class seats, the numbers would have been similar to a Class 360, so this is not an apples/oranges comparison, what an absurd claim. As a frequent user of the GEML, my observations would be that no one travelling from Colchester or beyond ever has difficulty getting a seat unless they join an outwards train at Stratford. Most standees on these trains cluster at the doorways, so for people seated inside, barely any effect on comfort.

In fact, I have just checked out a 360 tonight, and I was wrong, 16 seats in first class, so that is the eqivalnt of 20 seats if abolished and refitted, any arguments that this is going to have any significant effects on standard class amenity (by which I travel 95% of the time) are complete and utter unredemable garbage.

What has really happened is that AGA has calculated how much it costs to fit out the new trains with first class compartments, and how much revenue they generate. They have worked out that the extra income does not justfy the costs. That is a correct business decision, and I respect that, but please don't give me ridiculous argumens claiming that standard class passngers will benefit massively from this because they won't even notice.

 

[43096]

I do agree with this - furthermore, it would make sense for all the FLIRTs to be the same.

Stansted is predominantly a budget airline (Riotscare, EasyJet) airport, though, isn’t it? That might give some idea of the demand for first class on the airport service.

That said, I cannot daily your logic with the standardisation of the FLIRTs. Having two micro fleets of 10, each with 9 required in service, is just bonkers.

 

[Jonny]

That said, I cannot daily your logic with the standardisation of the FLIRTs. Having two micro fleets of 10, each with 9 required in service, is just bonkers.

They are going to be very similar technically to the bi-mode Class 755s which will soon be the entirety of GA's diesel fleet. Besides, unit reliability will be pretty good.

 

[jopsuk]

This was in the franchise agreements. And the rolling stock orders.

With Stansted Express, apparently sales of 1st class tickets are very low. This is possibly connected to Stansted, like Luton, being primarily a budget airline airport

 

[EssexGonzo]

I'm sure that if AGA had gone to the expense (now there's the clue) of fitting out the new trains with first class seats, the numbers would have been similar to a Class 360, so this is not an apples/oranges comparison, what an absurd claim. As a frequent user of the GEML, my observations would be that no one travelling from Colchester or beyond ever has difficulty getting a seat unless they join an outwards train at Stratford. Most standees on these trains cluster at the doorways, so for people seated inside, barely any effect on comfort.

In fact, I have just checked out a 360 tonight, and I was wrong, 16 seats in first class, so that is the eqivalnt of 20 seats if abolished and refitted, any arguments that this is going to have any significant effects on standard class amenity (by which I travel 95% of the time) are complete and utter unredemable garbage.

What has really happened is that AGA has calculated how much it costs to fit out the new trains with first class compartments, and how much revenue they generate. They have worked out that the extra income does not justfy the costs. That is a correct business decision, and I respect that, but please don't give me ridiculous argumens claiming that standard class passngers will benefit massively from this because they won't even notice.

I disagree - not on the scale of the passenger impact but on the absolute assertion that there will be no difference. Such is the capacity shortfall further down the line that as well as the financial business case, there will be marginal gains. 16 vs 20 seats is neither here nor there, I agree.

But 16 seats maybe 25% occupied that become 20 seats that will be 100% occupied between Stratford and Shenfield will be noticeable and welcome.

 

[MrPIC]

Except in the peaks the 1st Class on Stanex is pretty much empty in the day time. Its a pretty decent first class as well, which is a shame. From what I understand there will be some Stanex service, probably first and last thing where a Norwich set will be covering. 10 units each does seem very optimistic to me, I wonder which service will have units robbed from it to cover the other? (lol we all know the answer to that)

 

[hexagon789]

I thought it was known this was coming considering only the new trains for Liverpool Street-Norwich have First Class?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought it was known this was coming considering only the new trains for Liverpool Street-Norwich have First Class?

The EMUs do have small sections of 8 2+2 seats at the cab ends which could have been 1st if necessary.

 

[hexagon789]

The EMUs do have small sections of 8 2+2 seats at the cab ends which could have been 1st if necessary.

True, but I'm pretty sure it had been said none of the new trains would have First Class bar the InterCity Norwich sets.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’m surprised it has taken this long to be picked up. It was announced when the trains were ordered over 2 years ago.

 

[hexagon789]

I’m surprised it has taken this long to be picked up. It was announced when the trains were ordered over 2 years ago.

So I was right, it was previously mentioned as I thought.

 

[chubs]

I’m surprised it has taken this long to be picked up. It was announced when the trains were ordered over 2 years ago.

It's been discussed extensively in one of the other GA threads.

I assume OP didn't see it or just wanted a dedicated thread for the matter.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's been discussed extensively in one of the other GA threads.

I assume OP didn't see it or just wanted a dedicated thread for the matter.

What I meant was that I was surprised that the media generally hadn’t picked it up. The forum is, naturally, well abreast of such matters.

 

[Wivenswold]

"Press" stories these days are pretty much all rehashed from press releases, emergency services reports or social media stories, the art of journalism is dying, sadly. So it didn't surprise me one jot that East Anglian newspapers didn't notice that none of our commuter trains had 1st class. Take the pretty obvious delay in the arrival of the 720s, all anyone needed to do was check the time-lines contained in earlier GA press releases and compare with the latest ones and there's a story right there.

I stopped reading newspapers some time ago.

 

[samuelmorris]

It'll rear its ugly head when the new trains near readiness for service, then they'll be some 'what? no first class?' going on.

 

[Aictos]

To be honest, London Northwestern Railway First is so frequently declassified and not much nicer than standard anyway they might as well ditch it completely, I agree. If people want first class comfort they can use Virgin Trains.

I disagree with your post as I've never been on a service operated by LNWR that has had First Class declassified EVER and I use them often enough so to say they frequently declassify it is a myth simply because if it was declassified so frequently I would have had a service by now with no First Class and that has never happened.

As to saying it's not much nicer then Standard, I disagree simply because apart from the fact it has power sockets and the rest of the train doesn't (Am referring to Class 350/1s and Class 350/2s here), it does provide a quieter area then the rest of the train, so it is much nicer then Standard.

As to ditching it altogether I hope they don't because it restricts these paying for 1st Class to only using Virgin Trains and so is bad for consumer choice - the only improvement I would like to see when the next trains come is for 1st to be moved to one end of the train ideally at the London end of the set and the same to happen to the entire Class 350 fleet with the former 1st Class being converted to Standard Class.

As to Greater Anglia, they could get rid of First Class on the Norwich services and instead label it as Business Class like Chiltern does or Standard Premier like Eurostar does.

 

[306024]

"Press" stories these days are pretty much all rehashed from press releases, emergency services reports or social media stories, the art of journalism is dying, sadly. So it didn't surprise me one jot that East Anglian newspapers didn't notice that none of our commuter trains had 1st class. Take the pretty obvious delay in the arrival of the 720s, all anyone needed to do was check the time-lines contained in earlier GA press releases and compare with the latest ones and there's a story right there.

This one is pretty much a straight lift off the GA website.

First class season ticket holders have received a letter explaining why 1st class is going on all but the InterCity services. Whatever your views it’s coming so just got to accept it. The dilemma, as mentioned previously, is for Colchester and to some extent Manningtree passengers on whether they’ll get a first class seat in the morning peak. No alternative slower train in future.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I disagree with your post as I've never been on a service operated by LNWR that has had First Class declassified EVER and I use them often enough so to say they frequently declassify it is a myth simply because if it was declassified so frequently I would have had a service by now with no First Class and that has never happened.

On the trains I use it happens probably about a third of the time.

 

[dk1]

As to Greater Anglia, they could get rid of First Class on the Norwich services and instead label it as Business Class like Chiltern does or Standard Premier like Eurostar does.

What on earth would be the point of that?

 

[Ianigsy]

I think it just shows how that particular market has changed in the 30-odd years since electrification and how the outer suburban market now extends well into Suffolk.