Greater Anglia. Why the need for 745s and 720s

[dk1]

Thanks. I'd agree it makes sense, but surely there'd be a large surplus of units, even in the third Norwich service starts? Not that that's the biggest problem to overcome in the future!

Will be used on both Ipswich/Clacton services.

 

[ABB125]

Will be used on both Ipswich/Clacton services.

Thanks again! I won't say any more, so as to avoid clogging the thread with stuff marginally off-topic

 

[dk1]

Thanks again! I won't say any more, so as to avoid clogging the thread with stuff marginally off-topic

Haha, I’m always in the mire for such things & it’s all relevant in my humble opinion.

 

[Wivenswold]

Stadlers on a couple of the Clacton peaks either way would go down very well with the remaining commuters here in NE Essex.

I haven't made it to the station in 3 years but my wife likes the Aventras and loves travelling on the Stadlers. She's never shown any strong feelings about trains before, well done GA!

 

[Bald Rick]

Will be used on both Ipswich/Clacton services.

That would then be an issue with dwell times at Chelmsford / Witham.

 

[Shunter_69]

That would then be an issue with dwell times at Chelmsford / Witham.

Plenty of time built into the schedule at Witham and Chelmsford. Greater acceleration/braking would easily overcome extra dwell time.

 

[Alfie1014]

Will be used on both Ipswich/Clacton services.

Oh don’t tease just when I was beginning to accept a diet of wall to wall 720s!

That said on another forum the GA unit diagrams for both this May and the September timetable uplift have been posted. From Sept there are 9 x 745/0 diagrams on the GE, 5 x 745/1 on the reduced Stansted Express and 4 on the GE, 1 of which works all day and 3 in the peaks only. One of the latter diagrams shows a 745/1 on the 19:10 LIV St to Ipswich then empty to Victoria Sidings via Crown Point. Luxury for the Hatfield Peveral commuters! That said Real Time Trains shows all 3 of the peak diagrams as timed for cl720 which make substitution easier though! The same set of diagrams show everything else on the GE operated by 720s, in total 69 weekday diagrams, though these are all still shown timed in RTT as cl321 so no major acceleration of most services yet.

I’ve been pretty impressed with cl720 performance, this week a pair I was on covered Chelmsford to Witham in 7 mins 14 sec, (the booked schedule is 9.5 mins), 0 to 100 in 115 seconds!

 

[Shunter_69]

It’s 60 leaving Chelmsford for Witham so 0-100 is probably quicker than that normally.

 

[dk1]

Oh don’t tease just when I was beginning to accept a diet of wall to wall 720s!

I’ve been pretty impressed with cl720 performance, this week a pair I was on covered Chelmsford to Witham in 7 mins 14 sec, (the booked schedule is 9.5 mins), 0 to 100 in 115 seconds!

I have still to sample a 720 as a passenger. Doesn't look like we will sign them now & them stabling at NVS may not be needed.

 

[Shunter_69]

I have still to sample a 720 as a passenger. Doesn't look like we will sign them now & them stabling at NVS may not be needed.

If your rumour is true and it’s a lot more realistic than the ridiculous one doing the rounds at our depot (no more 720’s and £6 million to refurbish more 321’s ) I might actually drive a 745 for the first time having signed them for 18 months

 

[Energy]

(no more 720’s and £6 million to refurbish more 321’s )

Why would they even consider this?

 

[Shunter_69]

Why would they even consider this?

They wouldn’t, especially as there are already loads of 720’s built. That money would probably only get you a couple of refurbished units too.

The railway loves a ridiculous rumour.

 

[dk1]

They wouldn’t, especially as there are already loads of 720’s built. That money would probably only get you a couple of refurbished units too.

The railway loves a ridiculous rumour.

Some of the messroom rumours are obscene. I bet like me you can usually pinpoint the source of them.

 

[Shunter_69]

Some of the messroom rumours are obscene. I bet like me you can usually pinpoint the source of them.

It could be anyone at our place but there are a couple of people I’d put my money on.

Ive heard quite a few different variations on this one. I do sometimes wonder about the sanity of some of our colleagues.

 

[321over360]

Won’t matter when they go over to a sub fleet of class 720s on the Stansted Express. Plans afoot to concentrate the 745s on the GEML.

would make sense for 720s to go to Stansted Express, and use the 745s on all Ipswich and Norwich services, so uniformed fleet running to the 2 ex Intercity destinations on the GEML, with the 745/0s retained on the Norwich half hourly, and the 745/1s used on the Ipswich stoppers rather than running 720s to Ipswich as saves on the stock movement from the most northerly depot on the GEML to the WAML via Liverpool Street

 

[dk1]

would make sense for 720s to go to Stansted Express, and use the 745s on all Ipswich and Norwich services, so uniformed fleet running to the 2 ex Intercity destinations on the GEML, with the 745/0s retained on the Norwich half hourly, and the 745/1s used on the Ipswich stoppers rather than running 720s to Ipswich as saves on the stock movement from the most northerly depot on the GEML to the WAML via Liverpool Street

Saves a heap of driver training, 745s are on the route of their home depot & just about everything can rescue everything else on the WAML if needed.

 

[Shunter_69]

Saves a heap of driver training, 745s are on the route of their home depot & just about everything can rescue everything else on the WAML if needed.

Might need to train Clacton as they don’t sign Stadlers

 

[dk1]

Might need to train Clacton as they don’t sign Stadlers

Very true. Only two links at Norwich where ever going to sign 720s.

 

[Bald Rick]

Plenty of time built into the schedule at Witham and Chelmsford. Greater acceleration/braking would easily overcome extra dwell time.

Not so much in the new GEML timetable though, which is built to take advantage of the better acceleration.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

As usual throwing West Anglia passengers under the bus for the senior GEML punters
720's are entirely unsuitable for airport work, they'd have to mod them, which creates another sunflower.

 

[Shunter_69]

Not so much in the new GEML timetable though, which is built to take advantage of the better acceleration.

I thought they were only talking about saving 1 minute in the consultation?

 

[306024]

So many bets are off now. As usual the bid is slowly being altered to reflect reality. Off peak you can only go as fast as the freight allows. In the peak there used to be some clever skip stopping to balance loadings whilst minimising pathing time. That will no longer be necessary for the foreseeable so longer peak dwells could presumably be accommodated if needed. The old 312s used to have 1.5 min dwells at Chelmsford.

 

[dk1]

As usual throwing West Anglia passengers under the bus for the senior GEML punters
720's are entirely unsuitable for airport work, they'd have to mod them, which creates another sunflower.

Just make them a sub fleet. Extra luggage space, seating & boarding. Perfect!!

 

[Wivenswold]

The 720's are perfect for Stanex runs. Racks for smaller items, sensible suitcase easily fit under the cantiviler seats and the larger cases can sit with the passengers on those middle seats no-one use outside of the peaks.

As much as I want it to happen, I would be shocked if any of the 4 GE Stadler diagrams would be for the Clacton line. Stowmarket/Ipswich peak starters must be favourite.

I don't see dwell times as being an issue anywhere other than Chelmsford but a it's not difficult finding diagrams that don't stop there in the peaks.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Just make them a sub fleet. Extra luggage space, seating & boarding. Perfect!!

Now if only there was already a subfleet specifically designed with extra luggage space, spacious seating and level boarding that was designed with airport runs in mind.

 

[dk1]

Now if only there was already a subfleet specifically designed with extra luggage space, spacious seating and level boarding that was designed with airport runs in mind.

Hopefully can retro-fit the later delivery of 720s depending on how far advanced they are internally or did you mean something else?

 

[nw1]

While I have never travelled on a 745 (and quite possibly never will) one might think that as the 'express' unit they should be the default choice for the Clacton services, which had a heritage of 'express' units (309s) - and recently presumably had 360s rather than 321s, so has always had the more 'express' type of unit for the area.

 

[ABB125]

Hopefully can retro-fit the later delivery of 720s depending on how far advanced they are internally or did you mean something else?

I get the impression that class 379s were being described in all but name...

 

[Railperf]

So Greater Anglia ordered two different train types for both their intercity and suburban services. What was the point in this given both have the same top speed? Surely you could have just ordered the same stock but with the intercity ones having just one door and suburban ones having 2 doors each carriage? I would have thought ordering the 720s for all would be better due to their better acceleration over the 745s. All GA needed to do was amend any intended for Norwich services to intercity style layout and have a single door per carriage?

So far - the acceleration recorded for both 745 and 720 is virtually identical - certainly to 60mph (under 40 seconds) . The 745's seem marginally quicker to 100mph - both get to 100mph in under 2 mins. 745's have a 'speed hold' device which keeps them at the selected speed more precisely.

I’ve been pretty impressed with cl720 performance, this week a pair I was on covered Chelmsford to Witham in 7 mins 14 sec, (the booked schedule is 9.5 mins), 0 to 100 in 115 seconds!

Yes, they do shift. Quite a lot of drivers seem to delay giving them the full beans for a few seconds - but when you do get one, you feel the seat pushing into your back - facing forwards of course.
The schedules are unlikely to be accelerated while there are so many 321's around and the 720's still building up reliability.

Best place to record a 'level' start is Kelvedon southbound. I recorded a 360 doing 0 to 60mph in 44sec with a keen driver on board. 100mph in just under 2.5 min! The 321's rarely reach 100mph on that run. A keenly driven 745 can achieve 100mph or close to 100mph between most stops except Hatfield peverel and Witham.
Seems lots of drivers sticking to 321 speeds and braking points for the moment. No need to rush as the new units can easily blitz the schedule!

 

[dk1]

I get the impression that class 379s were being described in all but name...

Oh we dont want to start all that again