Greater Manchester bus questions

[radamfi]

Yes, before deregulation, the 528 was run by Metrobus and from 26 October 1986 the route was run by Yelloway with coaches, using the number 567/8. Obviously Yelloway got into financial trouble before long and Yorkshire Rider took over.

 

[Bungle965]

The Halifax-Rochdale service 528 is interworked with the Halifax-Booth/Midgley service 574.

A driver on the latter route was telling me that tempos were too long for use on the roads around Midgley and Booth, so perhaps that could be why they've been transferred, as I presume a solo, with a wheel at each corner, is an easier proposition.
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Apparently not.
According to the recent Calder Valley Bus Consultation, this route is one from which Metro intends to withdraw support, so it seems it will be withdrawn altogether in the New Year.

well that is great that is the bus that i get to school each morning and a couple of my school friends get on at Ripponden and places near there and normally when i get on the bus i normally half full, to me it does not make sense the 528 is the quicker bus to Halifax (rather than the 590) and there is quite allot of people that use it.

 

[Deerfold]

Wow, the withdrawal of the 528 is a great shame, and a surprise, as I always thought that route was particularly resistant because it has always run every hour, seven days a week for as long as I can remember. For at least 30 years. Normally routes get cut in frequency and lose their Sunday service before being withdrawn altogether.

I grew up in Ripponden and have been sad to see the service decrease over time. I was used to having 3 buses an hour direct to Halifax (2 evenings and Sunday) with another 3bp2h along various longer routes.

I think when First withdrew the 562 completely they may have been expecting Metro to pay for a subisidised service - around the same time they did the same with the 502 Halifax - Keighley. Both had extra peak services on top of the general hourly service and had only previously been subsidised evenings and Sundays. There were then several changes to times and First seemed to put their worst vehicles on routes serving the village. Bus loadings in the area are far lower than when I moved away in 2001 - though last time I caught the 531 on a Sunday which is scheduled to move from an hourly service all day every day to a handful of journeys Monday to Fridays I saw 8 people catching it past the point where it leaves the A58.

Centrebus seem to have been trying their hardest (and I've observed far higher loadings on the 528 than the 560 half an hour either side) but it hasn't helped having alternate buses to Halifax along the A58 operated by different companies.

Metro's timetables at bus stops don't help either - they list expected times to destinations as the fastest achieved all week and don't make it clear that some routes take much longer - I suspect a lot of people are disappointed when a list of bus routes is described as taking 21 minutes to Halifax and they jump on a 531 and find it takes 46.

When the Oldham to Halifax route was cut, I thought that would mean better prospects for the 528, as passengers for Oldham would have to go through Rochdale. But I suppose the 528 doesn't serve many populated areas that aren't served by other routes.

Except on Saturdays and Summer weekends the 562 saw few people travelling over the Pennines - I caught it for 10 weeks working in Chadderton. In the morning I was the only person to do the whole section of route between Ripponden and Denshaw except on a Thursday when one other person did.

Coming home there were usually around 3 of us on board after Denshaw.

Yes, before deregulation, the 528 was run by Metrobus and from 26 October 1986 the route was run by Yelloway with coaches, using the number 567/8. Obviously Yelloway got into financial trouble before long and Yorkshire Rider took over.

Of course then only alternate buses went through Ripponden with the 567/527 going via Mill Bank instead (along with the 524 to Ripponden via Mill Bank later the 564, 564/566, 532/3, 531 - think there was another number when there were far more services terminating at Ripponden with services Barkisland - Dean Head, Barkisland - Ripponden, Ripponden - Commons split from the ends of other routes and interworked by a minubus).

In Hebble's time, it was even a through service [28], Leeds, Halifax to Rochdale.

Ripponden has had a lot of long distance services over the years including:

508 Leeds - Ripponden - Rishworth (half hourly with hourly extension to Commons)

X12 Bradford (Later Leeds) - Halifax - Ripponden - Oldham - Manchester (2 hourly with peak extras).

8 Leeds - Rishworth

X23 Rishworth - Leeds (via Cleckheaton)

561 Halifax - Ripponden - Rishworth - Trafford Centre (hourly to Rishworth all stops, every other hour then non-stop to Trafford centre).

The 562 (and 556 via Barkisland) continued to Manchester for a while too.

 

[radamfi]

One problem is that the 528 is only subsided by Metro and TfGM aren't paying for the portion of the route outside West Yorkshire. They probably don't get much business between Rochdale and Littleborough as many passengers probably have First tickets.

There is the 900/1 between Ripponden and Blackstone Edge so all parts of the route in West Yorkshire will still be served, so it isn't Metro's problem.

 

[Deerfold]

One problem is that the 528 is only subsided by Metro and TfGM aren't paying for the portion of the route outside West Yorkshire. They probably don't get much business between Rochdale and Littleborough as many passengers probably have First tickets.

There is the 900/1 between Ripponden and Blackstone Edge so all parts of the route in West Yorkshire will still be served, so it isn't Metro's problem.

Unfortunately passengers needs and desires to travel don't end at county boundaries.

And of course the 900/01 has first/last buses up Rochdale Road at 0937 and 1747 (with that being the first bus for 2 hours). Going down the buses arrive in Ripponden between 0759 and 1649. On a Sunday there's just 3 buses.

The 528 from Ripponden runs up Rochdale Road from 56 minutes earlier to 4h28 later and down from 20 minutes ealier to 6h31 later. There are currently 13 buses on a Sunday.



The portion of the 528 beyond Ripponden is operated commercially by Centrebus. Presumably if this was doing dreadfully they would have been able to drop it earlier.

 

[duncombec]

I've been browsing this forum for a while now with increasing regularity and so it seemed like a good idea to join - sorry for making my first post a bunch of questions! Although it started differently, this seems like the most logical thread to put them in.

Manchester is an area growing in interest for me, and I wonder if the 'locals' could help me with a few queries:

1. Cumfybus service 525 seems rather odd, starting at Bolton Interchange and ending at the Bus Station. The alternate service 527 does the complete loop, so why not this one? I couldn't find any other daytime services at the Interchange this could interwork with, and there is more than enough time in the timetable for the extra two minutes. Any ideas?

2. On the same front, is there any form of 'route working guide' available, either online or from Enthusiast societies? In my areas, the M&D and East Kent Bus Club and LOTS both produce their own take, with varying details - MDEK focuses more on types and scheduled strange workings, LOTS on PVR's and interworking. Is there something broadly similar for the Manchester area? I did discover the Ribble Enthuisiasts Club web page earlier today, but their publications sale list isn't online.

3. Stagecoach in Manchester helpfully provide 'proper' timetables on their website, detailing individual journeys for those whacking great blocks of the day where 'a frequent service applies'. First don't, but other than the dog's breakfast that is Traveline NW, anywhere I'm not thinking of that might? Not because I particularly want to know each individual journey, more a PVR-finding, route-working-interest, "this enthusiast is a timetable person" reason.

Thanks!

 

[scrapy]

Route 199 is nearly always surprisingly busy and could do with DD operation and there is no realistic reason why a DD couldn't be used.

(The article you linked to is about the TP service hitting a bridge when it went on a diversion, there is no link with the 199 and it would be extremely difficult for a bus on the 199 to end up going under that bridge!)

The rail bridge on Chapel Rd near Whaley Bridge is too low I believe.

 

[pdsalford]

3. Stagecoach in Manchester helpfully provide 'proper' timetables on their website, detailing individual journeys for those whacking great blocks of the day where 'a frequent service applies'. First don't, but other than the dog's breakfast that is Traveline NW, anywhere I'm not thinking of that might? Not because I particularly want to know each individual journey, more a PVR-finding, route-working-interest, "this enthusiast is a timetable person" reason.

Thanks!

The TFGM website has a bus timetable library with all the local timetables.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When the Oldham to Halifax route was cut, I thought that would mean better prospects for the 528, as passengers for Oldham would have to go through Rochdale.

What was the main reason cited at the time when the Oldham to Halifax service was finally terminated....was it just low passenger numbers ?

 

[radamfi]

What was the main reason cited at the time when the Oldham to Halifax service was finally terminated....was it just low passenger numbers ?

Well, is there any other reason why a commercial service gets withdrawn? I suppose there could have been a tendered service replacing it, but the areas left unserved were uninhibited moorland, so it probably was not considered a good use of scarce resources. The 528 was also considered an alternative.

 

[northwichcat]

Well, is there any other reason why a commercial service gets withdrawn?

Yes - an operator no longer wanting an area e.g. High Peak withdrew their commercial attempt of the 27 Macclesfield-Knutsford service. Cheshire East council put the service out to tender but Vale Travel registered it commercially. The day Vale Travel had the registration accepted High Peak applied to cancel the commercial 300 Knutsford Town circular service i.e. once it was confirmed they wouldn't get the 27 service back on a subsided basis they didn't want to serve Knutsford at all.

Or - due to Traffic Commissioner's actions e.g. Warrington Coachways services.

 

[Deerfold]

Well, is there any other reason why a commercial service gets withdrawn? I suppose there could have been a tendered service replacing it, but the areas left unserved were uninhibited moorland, so it probably was not considered a good use of scarce resources. The 528 was also considered an alternative.

It was odd, going from hourly all day, with extra peak services to nothing in one jump. There's a theory First assumed it'd be put out to tender and they'd be in a good position to win that.

The TFGM website has a bus timetable library with all the local timetables.

However they don't give actual times for frequent services - for example http://www.tfgm.com/journey_planning/RouteMaps/42-EastDidsbury.pdf has a "frequent service" between 0634 and 0305 on a termtime Friday.

 

[radamfi]

The 528 is saved in the daytime (including a limited Sunday service) although no longer going through Lydgate. It will be renumbered X58.

https://www.wymetro.com/consultation/busreview/calderdale/

 

[323235]

Route 199 Buxton-Hazel Grove-Stockport-Airport is operated by High Peak buses and the route is not suitable for a double decker. The one occasion when they put a double decker on that route this happened: http://news.sky.com/story/1121181/bus-roof-ripped-off-after-hitting-railway-bridge

I think the majority of buses from Manchester Airport are single deckers. The Arriva buses to/from Altrincham are usually Wright Pulsar 2s and have ample spare seats at off-peak times, the one to avoid would be the 200 route which has a high chance of being a Solo.

Isn't that St Georges Rail Bridge in Stockport? I wasn't aware the 199 ever went under there certainly in early 2013 when I went on it. Stagecoach drivers aren't allowed to take any company vehicles under there under any circumstances.