Green Line 797

[A0]

My main memory starts from when Welwyn Hatfield Line got a number of the ex-Jubilee MCW Metroriders, these later got joined and replaced by Mercedes 709D's and the last WHL route to survive was the WH4 which ran with a new Volvo B6LE.

What actually happened was Sovereign took over Jubilee and then started up a load of local services in Welwyn Garden City - using the 'HR' prefix (for Hertsrider) essentially shadowing the WHL routes, using the ex-Jubilee Metroriders.

This ultimately resulted in WHL being bought out by Sovereign (or its parent company at least), Sovereign withdrawing the 'HR' routes and some fairly significant fleet changes.

As you say, some of the Metroriders were cascaded to WHL. WHL's Optare City Pacers went to County Bus in Harlow and a couple of particularly nasty Ivecos came the other way.

Of WHL's other vehicles - the Bristol coach became Sovereign's training vehicle, the Bedford VAS was sold, the other Bedford coach went to County Bus as their trainer, the Quest went to a charity and the Bedford bus was sold. And the Optare Mercedes they had also disappeared, but not before an additional one had come from Lucketts of Watford.

In their place came 2 Leyland Nationals from Sovereign (223 and 287 ring a bell).

The WHL fleet was 'updated' with Merc 709s and then the name started to disappear.

I think I remember at one time panshanger used to be served by both the WH1 and the WH4. School holidays used to be best as it would be common for a Bristol VR or Leyland Olympian to appear on the route.

Back to the 44, Sovereign certainly ran that again between Seamarks and Grant Palmer, mainly using Lynx G206URO for many years and then B6LE R603WMJ which came from St Albans.

On a side note I was always interested in how Stevenage's vehicles always stayed strongly allocated to certain workings (for example out of their 2 734 workings, Lynx 284 was always on the same one) where as North Mymms and St Albans were more mixed. One week I had the same National 4 days in a row and on 4 different routes (302, 338/9, 366 and 734).

That second "WH1" I think was the replacement for the "G4" doing the Mundells, Herns Way, Moors Walk, Black Fan Road, Mundells loop.

I remember those G2xxURO Lynxes - so much nicer than the SNBs that they replaced.

 

[RT4038]

The 314 was an HCC contract - in fact the route before the 314 existed was actually the old Birch Bros route from London - Rushden. Birch were taken over by UCOC in the late 60s and ultimately there was a route between Welwyn Village and Hitchin which UCOC operated. A reshuffle in the late 70s or early 80s resulted in the 314 being created and operated by LCBS from Stevenage.

The Welwyn Village ('Church')-Hitchin route (no. 82) was indeed created out of the former Birch Bros. route 203, in Summer 1973. The 203 was cut back to work between Rushden and Hitchin. In 1977 or thereabouts the 82 was swopped with London Country route 383 (Weston-Hitchin-Purwell Lane Est.). London Country renumbered the 82 as 314, and extended it through to Welwyn Gdn. City Stn. [an amendment proposed by Birch Bros. but refused by London Transport, in the 60s]

The 44 was born at the time of the closure of London Country's Luton Garage. About a year prior to the closure, London Country had acquired the Peters Green-Luton route [itself a former Birch Bros. service no. 205] from Jey-son Coaches, who had gone bust. LCBS numbered this route 365. [Not to be confused with the former 365 route St. Albans-Wheathampstead-Luton, which had been withdrawn some years earlier]. When Luton Garage closed, the other routes were transferred to other LCBS garages [321 to Garston, 366 to Hatfield] or to United Counties [360 Luton-Caddington]. The 365 was extended to Stevenage [there being no direct link up to this point], I think running on Fridays and Saturdays only initially. It was jointly operated by UC and LCBS. However, the service no. (in the UCOC Luton area series) clearly showed who was the lead operator.
Jey-son coaches also operated another former LCBS route (the former 364 Luton-Cockernhoe-Hitchin), which UCOC took over numbered 88.

 

[MedwayValiant]

As for the 724 - I'm guessing timing has come into play again - that and carrying shoppers from WGC town centre back to Panshanger really isn't the purpose of a long-distance service.

It isn't really, but for a long time it was Panshanger's only Sunday service and so people had little option but to use it for short journeys.

During the week not many would have used it from WGC to Panshanger because it didn't go into the old bus station (it served the Cherry Tree stop in both directions instead, iirc), but it did go into the new bus station once that opened in 1990.

The 724 is a bit of an odd route all round really, but it's been around for a long time so it must make money. It's the only regular bus between Denham and Maple Cross and between WGC and Hertford, but all of the rest is duplicated by other routes. Does it actually carry much Heathrow traffic?

I don't really understand the Panshanger rerouting. It's the same distance, but the route now used takes the notoriously dangerous and winding B1000 instead of the A414. There are no stops between Panshanger and Hertford, whereas on the old route there were often one or two passengers boarding at Birch Green. The upside is that the new route serves Hertford North station, but it could get there from the A414 via Thieves Lane if that were the point.


The original Welwyn Hatfield Line WH1 was a rather odd loop around Pentley Park and Crossway in the NW quadrant of WGC. WH2 ran Welwyn Village - South Hatfield (for a time, Codicote - Welham Green), then WH3 went to Haldens, WH4 went to Panshanger, and WH5 and WH6 went to Woodhall opposite ways round the loop. The WH7, 8, and 9 came a bit later and changed rather frequently, but they went from WGC to Hatfield in assorted ways.

There was also a WH10 for a couple of years which went to St Albans, I think using the same routing as the 724.

 

[A0]

It isn't really, but for a long time it was Panshanger's only Sunday service and so people had little option but to use it for short journeys.

During the week not many would have used it from WGC to Panshanger because it didn't go into the old bus station (it served the Cherry Tree stop in both directions instead, iirc), but it did go into the new bus station once that opened in 1990.

True about Sunday - but that's less of a problem.

There were alot of services which didn't use the old bus station or even the interim one which was half the old 'roundabout' in front of the station - from memory the 300 / 303 (Hitchin - Hatfield / Potters Bar), 340 WGC - St Albans / Hemel, 733 (Hitchin - Watford / Heathrow). I can't remember whether the 366 did.

The 724 is a bit of an odd route all round really, but it's been around for a long time so it must make money. It's the only regular bus between Denham and Maple Cross and between WGC and Hertford, but all of the rest is duplicated by other routes. Does it actually carry much Heathrow traffic?

I don't really understand the Panshanger rerouting. It's the same distance, but the route now used takes the notoriously dangerous and winding B1000 instead of the A414. There are no stops between Panshanger and Hertford, whereas on the old route there were often one or two passengers boarding at Birch Green. The upside is that the new route serves Hertford North station, but it could get there from the A414 via Thieves Lane if that were the point.

The 724 is one of the few surviving routes which dates back to LT's ownership of London Country - though it has seen some changes, it's largely unchanged.

I don't believe for a second there's a huge traffic demand between WGC and Denham or Maple Cross. The reality is there is probably some traffic to Heathrow, but it tends to be used to get from one town to another.

I can only assume the re-route via the B1000 was time saving - it is slightly shorter and probably a bit quieter as well. And, it does stop the use of the 724 as a local service between town and Panshanger.

The original Welwyn Hatfield Line WH1 was a rather odd loop around Pentley Park and Crossway in the NW quadrant of WGC. WH2 ran Welwyn Village - South Hatfield (for a time, Codicote - Welham Green), then WH3 went to Haldens, WH4 went to Panshanger, and WH5 and WH6 went to Woodhall opposite ways round the loop. The WH7, 8, and 9 came a bit later and changed rather frequently, but they went from WGC to Hatfield in assorted ways.

There was also a WH10 for a couple of years which went to St Albans, I think using the same routing as the 724.

They basically mirrored elements of the G routes so as to make it easy for passengers - so the G1 ran Knightsfield / Shoplands to town and then onto Hatfield via the QE2, the G2 ran from town via Woodhall and QE2 to Hatfield, the G3 was Haldens and G4 Panshanger. There were also some 'odd' peak workings numbered G12,13,14.

 

[spuddie]

What actually happened was Sovereign took over Jubilee and then started up a load of local services in Welwyn Garden City - using the 'HR' prefix (for Hertsrider) essentially shadowing the WHL routes, using the ex-Jubilee Metroriders.

This ultimately resulted in WHL being bought out by Sovereign (or its parent company at least), Sovereign withdrawing the 'HR' routes and some fairly significant fleet changes.

As you say, some of the Metroriders were cascaded to WHL. WHL's Optare City Pacers went to County Bus in Harlow and a couple of particularly nasty Ivecos came the other way.

Of WHL's other vehicles - the Bristol coach became Sovereign's training vehicle, the Bedford VAS was sold, the other Bedford coach went to County Bus as their trainer, the Quest went to a charity and the Bedford bus was sold. And the Optare Mercedes they had also disappeared, but not before an additional one had come from Lucketts of Watford.

In their place came 2 Leyland Nationals from Sovereign (223 and 287 ring a bell).

The WHL fleet was 'updated' with Merc 709s and then the name started to disappear.




That second "WH1" I think was the replacement for the "G4" doing the Mundells, Herns Way, Moors Walk, Black Fan Road, Mundells loop.

I remember those G2xxURO Lynxes - so much nicer than the SNBs that they replaced.

I also remember just before the HR services, Sovereign ran an A and B service, I think the A was a Panshanger local and the B was Haldens. I've seen photo evidence of a Leyland National branded for it but I don't think it lasted long and I certainly remember Metroriders appearing on it before the HR services.

I remember those Iveco's, not nice at all and not popular with the drivers. The engineering staff started cutting one up with the idea of turning it into their rescue vehicle but it fell apart.

Your right on the first Nationals, they were LPB223P and SPC287R the first to transfer in the two tone brown. They later got some more in at least a second hand long example MLJ920P and also B-series BPL497T. When they left VKE564S gained the orangey red and cream livery.

All the Optare StarRider Mercedes ended up going to Yorkshire Coastliner.

WHL briefly had some manual gearbox 709D's too from County in the shape of G920-3WGS.

They did get 2 longer Plaxton Mercedes 811D's in the shape of K3/4SBC for routes WH7 and WH8.

Speaking of Lynxes, F205MBT was the first to become a Welwyn Hatfield Line example, looking in very smart in it's red and cream. G296/7KWY later joined but that was more because they arrived from Harrogate & District in that livery so just needed the names changed.

The WHL name mainly started to go when the 709D's were being replaced by slightly newer 811D's being released from Harrow around 1999.

 

[A0]

I also remember just before the HR services, Sovereign ran an A and B service, I think the A was a Panshanger local and the B was Haldens. I've seen photo evidence of a Leyland National branded for it but I don't think it lasted long and I certainly remember Metroriders appearing on it before the HR services.

There was a single National painted in blue / cream with the Hertsrider brand name for that route - bearing in mind at the time the company was still London Country North East. I guess it was almost 'piloting' the the new company livery and name to see if passengers noticed. That said, the minute that National was unavailable it was substituted with a green National !

Whilst it definitely served Haldens & Panshanger, there's a part of me which thinks it was actually a 'circular' service which ran Town > Haldens > Panshanger >Town and the 'A' or 'B' denoted whether it was clockwise or anti-clockwise.

I can't remember how long it lasted - but it was shortly after that they started to re-brand the company using 'Stevenage Bus' for vehicles based there and 'Hertsrider' for the others - initially just putting the name over the 'London Country NE' name on the green livery.

The use of Sovereign as the name on the vehicles started with the Harrow services, but wasn't really used in Herts until they sold a chunk of the Stevenage operations to Luton & District, together with the Stevenage Bus name.

 

[MedwayValiant]

from memory the 300 / 303 (Hitchin - Hatfield / Potters Bar), 340 WGC - St Albans / Hemel, 733 (Hitchin - Watford / Heathrow). I can't remember whether the 366 did.

The 366 did, although drivers incoming from Luton sometimes missed it out and went straight to the Cherry Tree.

The 300/303 and the 733 used the John Lewis and Cherry Tree stops instead of the old bus station. I never really used the 340, but it probably did the same.

The 724 is one of the few surviving routes which dates back to LT's ownership of London Country - though it has seen some changes, it's largely unchanged.

Did it run Watford-Harlow in LT days? That was how I first remember it, then numbered 524. Did the number change to 724 when the route was extended to run Heathrow - Stansted? Stansted is no longer served, and the routing to Heathrow has changed a couple of times - it went through West Drayton at one point - but the main part of the route is indeed largely unchanged in living memory.

That got me thinking about routes in Hertfordshire which have been essentially unchanged for more or less ever. The Hitchin-Bedford routes, currently 71 and 72, must be right up there. The route numbers have changed, and the routing in the Shefford area inevitably changed when RAF Chicksands closed. (How many public buses anywhere in the country go through military bases?)

Haynes village now gets a regular hourly bus, whereas it used only to get an occasional one and all the others stayed on the main road. But the basis of the route - two buses per hour between Hitchin and Bedford, one via Arlesey and one via Henlow Camp - hasn't changed since I became aware of its existence. How long is it in fact?

Sovereign ran an A and B service, I think the A was a Panshanger local and the B was Haldens. I've seen photo evidence of a Leyland National branded for it but I don't think it lasted long and I certainly remember Metroriders appearing on it before the HR services.

I remember those. The A started first, and ran half hourly Town - Haldens - Panshanger - Town. The B appeared a few months later and ran the other way round, but neither lasted very long.

IIRC, they ran from the John Lewis stop rather than the bus station. As a result, Panshanger passengers - used to boarding their buses either at the bus station or the Cherry Tree - didn't use them much because the stop was a bit out of their way.

As well as LCNE/Sovereign, Sampson's, and WHL, there was briefly another operator of town services in WGC. That was Roger Quentin, mainly a taxi operator, who used to run a minibus between town and Woodhall which picked up at the taxi rank behind John Lewis.

 

[spuddie]

Did it run Watford-Harlow in LT days? That was how I first remember it, then numbered 524. Did the number change to 724 when the route was extended to run Heathrow - Stansted? Stansted is no longer served, and the routing to Heathrow has changed a couple of times - it went through West Drayton at one point - but the main part of the route is indeed largely unchanged in living memory.

That has just reminded me about the 524. I remember some early morning workings and probably evenings as well of the 524 but this was at the same time as the 724 but I don't know what the difference was. I've seen photo evidence of it still using a Greenline TP but I remember travelling on it with a Metrorider.

 

[Busaholic]

The 366 did, although drivers incoming from Luton sometimes missed it out and went straight to the Cherry Tree.

The 300/303 and the 733 used the John Lewis and Cherry Tree stops instead of the old bus station. I never really used the 340, but it probably did the same.



Did it run Watford-Harlow in LT days? That was how I first remember it, then numbered 524. Did the number change to 724 when the route was extended to run Heathrow - Stansted? Stansted is no longer served, and the routing to Heathrow has changed a couple of times - it went through West Drayton at one point - but the main part of the route is indeed largely unchanged in living memory.

That got me thinking about routes in Hertfordshire which have been essentially unchanged for more or less ever. The Hitchin-Bedford routes, currently 71 and 72, must be right up there. The route numbers have changed, and the routing in the Shefford area inevitably changed when RAF Chicksands closed. (How many public buses anywhere in the country go through military bases?)

Haynes village now gets a regular hourly bus, whereas it used only to get an occasional one and all the others stayed on the main road. But the basis of the route - two buses per hour between Hitchin and Bedford, one via Arlesey and one via Henlow Camp - hasn't changed since I became aware of its existence. How long is it in fact?



I remember those. The A started first, and ran half hourly Town - Haldens - Panshanger - Town. The B appeared a few months later and ran the other way round, but neither lasted very long.

IIRC, they ran from the John Lewis stop rather than the bus station. As a result, Panshanger passengers - used to boarding their buses either at the bus station or the Cherry Tree - didn't use them much because the stop was a bit out of their way.

As well as LCNE/Sovereign, Sampson's, and WHL, there was briefly another operator of town services in WGC. That was Roger Quentin, mainly a taxi operator, who used to run a minibus between town and Woodhall which picked up at the taxi rank behind John Lewis.

The 724 actually ran High Wycombe to Romford via Watford and Harlow in LT days! The High Wycombe section was not a great success, but at that time in the late 1960s Green Line was leaking passengers because of unreliability caused by traffic delays, with most routes being cross-London from e.g. Amersham to Wrotham (Kent). I'm not sure of the actual date i.e. whether it was in LT days or not, but it became Staines to Harlow a few years later, serving Heathrow on the way to Staines. The Harlow passenger endeavouring to reach Staines actually had two totally different Green Line routes to choose from at one time, the other being the 718 via central London!

 

[A0]

The 724 actually ran High Wycombe to Romford via Watford and Harlow in LT days! The High Wycombe section was not a great success, but at that time in the late 1960s Green Line was leaking passengers because of unreliability caused by traffic delays, with most routes being cross-London from e.g. Amersham to Wrotham (Kent). I'm not sure of the actual date i.e. whether it was in LT days or not, but it became Staines to Harlow a few years later, serving Heathrow on the way to Staines. The Harlow passenger endeavouring to reach Staines actually had two totally different Green Line routes to choose from at one time, the other being the 718 via central London!

You're right - it was 1972 when it was diverted away from High Wycombe - I thought that happened in LT days..
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That has just reminded me about the 524. I remember some early morning workings and probably evenings as well of the 524 but this was at the same time as the 724 but I don't know what the difference was. I've seen photo evidence of it still using a Greenline TP but I remember travelling on it with a Metrorider.

The 524 number was actually first used by London Country in the mid-80s when they 'withdrew' the 724 running from Harlow - Staines / Windsor and replaced it with an express bus running Harlow - Watford only. And for express bus read Leyland National - with coach seats if lucky.....

That only lasted a year or two and the 724 was restored using brand new TPs.

I recall the 524 number being used for a couple of HCC journeys in the late 80s - I think SM Travel may have been the operator. Probably only Hertford - St Albans or similar and fairly sure they used an Optare minibus at one point.

There was a time in the late 80s / early 90s when the 724 on a Sunday used to get whatever minibus County bus at Harlow could be bothered to send out - so Ivecos or Talbots were the order of the day. Far better was the period of time Green Rover ran it with either an RF, RMA or RP.......

 

[Busaholic]

IF my memory is correct, the 724 was either the first or second Green Line route to be one man operated: I do seem to remember a 727, though, which may have been the first such, but I don't remember the details. The 724 was OMO RF at the beginning and I suspect the original intention was to run through to Tilbury (sorry, I have no evidence of this) so that, with a ferry crossing to Gravesend, one could do a circular tour of the inner Home Counties with just one, or at most two, changes, purely on Green Line.

 

[A0]

That got me thinking about routes in Hertfordshire which have been essentially unchanged for more or less ever. The Hitchin-Bedford routes, currently 71 and 72, must be right up there. The route numbers have changed, and the routing in the Shefford area inevitably changed when RAF Chicksands closed. (How many public buses anywhere in the country go through military bases?)

Haynes village now gets a regular hourly bus, whereas it used only to get an occasional one and all the others stayed on the main road. But the basis of the route - two buses per hour between Hitchin and Bedford, one via Arlesey and one via Henlow Camp - hasn't changed since I became aware of its existence. How long is it in fact?

.

The 314 between Welwyn Village and Hitch in has to be a contender - that can trace its origin back to 1928 when Birch Bros started their Bedford - Hitchin - London service - and it ran via Codicote rather than the A1 because LT declined their application to run via Stevenage.

 

[Class45]

That got me thinking about routes in Hertfordshire which have been essentially unchanged for more or less ever. The Hitchin-Bedford routes, currently 71 and 72, must be right up there. The route numbers have changed, and the routing in the Shefford area inevitably changed when RAF Chicksands closed. (How many public buses anywhere in the country go through military bases?)

Haynes village now gets a regular hourly bus, whereas it used only to get an occasional one and all the others stayed on the main road. But the basis of the route - two buses per hour between Hitchin and Bedford, one via Arlesey and one via Henlow Camp - hasn't changed since I became aware of its existence. How long is it in fact?

One of those routes is the original Eastern National/United Counties route which dates from the 1920s and the other ( I think the one via Henlow Camp ) is what remains of the old Birch Bros service from Rushden to London

 

[MedwayValiant]

Thanks Class45. So those routes are essentially unchanged for almost ninety years, and it's at least twenty years since even the timetable has changed substantially. There really won't be very many routes anywhere which can say that!

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I think it then passed entirely to LCBS - I've never seen any record of Luton and District operating it - remember L&D was formed from UC and took both Hitchin & Luton depots.

I'm willing to stand corrected but I believe that route 44 was operated briefly by Luton & District from it's formation on 1st Jan 1986 having taken over ALL UCOC operations from Luton depot... it was a route that was lost on tender from deregulation day. By that time IIRC it only operated 2 or 3 days a week... certainly L&D weren't interested in "awkward" shopping services which caused problems with schedules.. and in any case L&D was one operator which did particularly badly on the tendering front at the time...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That got me thinking about routes in Hertfordshire which have been essentially unchanged for more or less ever.

The trunk section of the 321 from Luton to Watford must be a contender for the longest running unchanged route in Hertfordshire

 

[PeterC]

The 724 was OMO RF at the beginning and I suspect the original intention was to run through to Tilbury (sorry, I have no evidence of this)

The 724 was certainly OMO RF based at Romford and High Wycombe. I was on the first journey.

I am not aware of any intention of running to Tilbury, in any event the Dartford Tunnel was open by then. Romford - Grays - Tilbury Ferry was route 370 operated by Grays based RTs at a fairly high frequency for a country route. A number of fairly short lived routes ran through the tunnel. Riding on a GS being driven hard down the tunnel approach was quite an expeience.

 

[Busaholic]

The 724 was certainly OMO RF based at Romford and High Wycombe. I was on the first journey.

I am not aware of any intention of running to Tilbury, in any event the Dartford Tunnel was open by then. Romford - Grays - Tilbury Ferry was route 370 operated by Grays based RTs at a fairly high frequency for a country route. A number of fairly short lived routes ran through the tunnel. Riding on a GS being driven hard down the tunnel approach was quite an expeience.

Intention was probably the wrong word. I am sure, though, that Brian Spellar, the main guy at Reigate head office of LT Country Buses then, and an enthusiast rather along the lines of Peter Hendy i.e.an enormous capability to go with his enthusiasm, would have loved to 'complete the circle' by doing that. The writing was, of course, well and truly on the wall for Green Line by then, certainly on the cross-London routes which made up the bulk of the network. I remember when LT Buses were broken up at the end of 1969 and Brian Spellar came to 55 Broadway to say his farewells to colleagues, as he would now head London Country Bus Services and not be part of LT, being told by various people that, of all the managers who were to go, he would be by far the most missed. LCBS didn't just inherit buses that LT no longer wanted!

 

[jon0844]

The new timetables from the end of March are now on the Uno website.

The 797 is now down to this. Why even bother to keep it going?

http://www.buscms.com/uno/uploadedfiles/pdftimetable/20160327_797_Timetable.pdf

 

[A0]

The new timetables from the end of March are now on the Uno website.

The 797 is now down to this. Why even bother to keep it going?

http://www.buscms.com/uno/uploadedfiles/pdftimetable/20160327_797_Timetable.pdf

Season ticket holders?

Or the fact there is justification for a round journey in the morning and evening peak? There have been plenty of commuter services which operate one or two services only.

 

[jon0844]

Probably just that, anyone who has pre-paid and to avoid giving refunds.

But if I had a season, I'd hardly look to renew it unless I had a job that had totally fixed hours and fitted perfectly with the remaining bus times.

I can appreciate some services operate like this, especially in rural areas, but I'd be stunned if people don't switch to other transport (especially the train) and the service eventually dies.

After all Arriva said it made a loss and Uno doesn't appear to have succeeded in making a go of it either.

At the end of the day, if it's just one bus then it demonstrates there just can't be enough usage - unless the one bus is now going to be totally full?

 

[spuddie]

Looks like it was a waste of paint putting three Citaro's into Greenline livery then and presumably two of them will soon be returning to the paint shop.

 

[A0]

Looks like it was a waste of paint putting three Citaro's into Greenline livery then and presumably two of them will soon be returning to the paint shop.

I assume they were vinyled rather than painted? If so, then it won't be a big job to change them.

Alternatively they could sell them to Arriva - aren't they younger than the ones which currently ply the 724 ?

 

[jon0844]

A driver has confirmed on a local Hatfield group that the 797 was nearly always virtually empty on runs into London, hence why it will be slowly killed off. A new service had been restored from Hitchin to Hatfield and will likely remain safe.

 

[Busaholic]

A driver has confirmed on a local Hatfield group that the 797 was nearly always virtually empty on runs into London, hence why it will be slowly killed off. A new service had been restored from Hitchin to Hatfield and will likely remain safe.

Bring back the Hitchin to New Barnet via Hatfield, I say.

 

[jon0844]

Bring back the Hitchin to New Barnet via Hatfield, I say.

Pretty certain most people would use the train for that now.

 

[A0]

Pretty certain most people would use the train for that now.

+1 I seem to recall the Hatfield - Potters Bar stretch of the 300/303 was council supported, so when LCNE diverted them at Hatfield to run onto St Albans and Hemel, the replacement Hatfield - Potters Bar service was an HCC contract, operated initially by Dodds of Troon of all operators.......

 

[MedwayValiant]

Dodds of Troon was part of the AA Motor Services consortium in Ayrshire. I think it already had what was effectively an outstation in Hertfordshire, presumably mainly for National Express work and touring coach work.

It bought a Mercedes bread van to operate the Hatfield-Potters Bar route. IIRC that vehicle had 2+1 seating, which was never common on service buses. If that bus was out of service then a touring coach was put on, but the drivers weren't comfortable taking an expensive vehicle round the 90° bend at Brookmans Park station.

Was the Hatfield-Potters Bar section of the 300/303 always an HCC contract? I remember LCNE effectively merging the 300/303 with the 330/340 and hence withdrawing from Hatfield-Potters Bar, but I think I thought they were both commercial services until then.

The Dodds service introduced the innovation of a one way loop around Potters Bar, which has continued ever since. I imagine the rationale was that it saved time, and anyone wanting to go the other way around PB had the 84 for that.

 

[A0]

Dodds of Troon was part of the AA Motor Services consortium in Ayrshire. I think it already had what was effectively an outstation in Hertfordshire, presumably mainly for National Express work and touring coach work.

It bought a Mercedes bread van to operate the Hatfield-Potters Bar route. IIRC that vehicle had 2+1 seating, which was never common on service buses. If that bus was out of service then a touring coach was put on, but the drivers weren't comfortable taking an expensive vehicle round the 90° bend at Brookmans Park station.

Was the Hatfield-Potters Bar section of the 300/303 always an HCC contract? I remember LCNE effectively merging the 300/303 with the 330/340 and hence withdrawing from Hatfield-Potters Bar, but I think I thought they were both commercial services until then.

The Dodds service introduced the innovation of a one way loop around Potters Bar, which has continued ever since. I imagine the rationale was that it saved time, and anyone wanting to go the other way around PB had the 84 for that.

Most 300s were terminating at South Hatfield by that stage. I can't be sure, but have a feeling the Potters Bar journey was part-supported by HCC. The route change meant HCC had to provide a replacement.

 

[jon0844]

At least one nicely liveried 797 Green line bus is now being used as the 614 now. Uno hasn't removed the vinyls, which must be potentially confusing as it looks nothing like an Uno bus.

 

[A0]

At least one nicely liveried 797 Green line bus is now being used as the 614 now. Uno hasn't removed the vinyls, which must be potentially confusing as it looks nothing like an Uno bus.

No different to when London Country NE used to routinely put a Green Line Tiger on the 366. Or ran around with a couple of ex Hastings & District Nationals in red / cream.

I'm not sure passengers actually notice that much - they have seemed to cope with the 'wrong' colour bus turning up over the years.