Greenpeace Protesters Occupy Coal Train

[afyutr]

Wasting power does a lot more damage than annoying protesters you don't like.

There is a serious point there. Surely the police / NR / EWS and whoever would be quite within their rights to bill Greenpeace given that their actions were (as it appears) not a peaceful protest but broke a few laws.

 

[ainsworth74]

Normally they just unloaded it onto the tracks - this means it does not constitute 'theft' as in order to commit theft you must take steps to or intend to deprive the owner of the item in question (in this case coal) permanently.

Agreed. But my comment was triggered by what looked like them putting coal into bags and loading it into the back of a Land Rover from a picture on BBC. From later comments however it appears they weren't actually taking it anywhere.

 

[jopsuk]

You can bet your bottom dollar that had one of these idiots fallen from a wagon, or had there been a train coming the other way, the rest would be demanding DBS pay out millions in compensation.

I really doubt it, as they're not that stupid. Any attempt to claim compensation from railway companies after something like this would be an incredible waste of money on the part of the complainant.

The only point they would have any sort of claim is if there was negligence or deliberate malice. For example, once the driver was aware there were people on the train, he'd be at best negligent if he moved the train before it had been confirmed that all the protestors had been removed to safety.

 

[GB]

For anyone interested, when it was apparent what was going on and when the authorities got there, the driver secured the train where it was and was escorted to safety. The train (6F11 10:47 Immingham HIT - Cottam), remained in place untill about 0830 this morning largely due to the power station refusing any traffic untill after 0800.

 

[trentside]

For anyone interested, when it was apparent what was going on and when the authorities got there, the driver secured the train where it was and was escorted to safety. The train (6F11 10:47 Immingham HIT - Cottam), remained in place untill about 0830 this morning largely due to the power station refusing any traffic untill after 0800.

Glad to hear the driver was looked after by the authorities. I hope they didn't find this experience too traumatic.

Thanks for the update GB.

 

[wbbminerals]

There is a serious point there. Surely the police / NR / EWS and whoever would be quite within their rights to bill Greenpeace given that their actions were (as it appears) not a peaceful protest but broke a few laws.

I agree. A large lobby group like Greenpeace could easily afford to foot the bill. Hypocrites is the best word I can think of to describe them. They are no better than any other organisation that lobbies governments.

 

[ModernRailways]

I haven't had a chance to read the full thread, but just of the first page or so here's my post about it


The train was already stopped/stopping at a red signal in a siding/loop and the greenpeace people knew that already.

I doubt anything would happen to them with the law. They may be fined, but that will be it.

As for the lost coal, surely DB will just run another train today to make up for it?

I agree with their statement but not the way they're going about it. But then again, nobody would care if they didn't do this - look at how many enthusiasts have got their knickers in a twist over it!

 

[AndyPJG]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-29347368

Three Greenpeace activists have been arrested after a train taking coal to a power station was occupied for 10 hours.

More than 40 campaigners boarded the train near Cottam power station in north Nottinghamshire on Tuesday.

The group were protesting about the continued use of fossil fuels to provide electricity in the UK.

British Transport Police (BTP) said it had also gathered evidence to "proceed with action against other individuals". .....

 

[Saint66]

'Gathered evidence' So they're using the pictures that Greenpeace themselves took and posted on various sites?

 

[NSEFAN]

I wonder if they will try this stunt with the flask trains...

 

[ModernRailways]

I wonder if they will try this stunt with the flask trains...

They did twice when they first started, but they have since stopped.

 

[table38]

As China uses a lot more coal than we do, perhaps they ought to go over there and try a similar demonstration?

I'm sure the Chinese authorities would deal with these brave eco-warriors sympathetically

 

[Deerfold]

As China uses a lot more coal than we do, perhaps they ought to go over there and try a similar demonstration?

I'm sure the Chinese authorities would deal with these brave eco-warriors sympathetically

They seem to leave campaiging about coal in China to Greenpeace South East Asia. I suspect that even publishing information is dangerous enough for locals there.

http://www.greenpeace.org/eastasia/...-mining-at-the-source-of-chinas-y/blog/50394/

 

[Oswyntail]

As China uses a lot more coal than we do, perhaps they ought to go over there and try a similar demonstration?

I'm sure the Chinese authorities would deal with these brave eco-warriors sympathetically

Just because someone else is a worse offender does not mean we shouldn't look to our own backyard. Of course we should all be husbanding our planet's resources, whether or not we "believe" in climat change.
However, criminal activity is most definitely not the way to go about things. It is the reaction of a schoolchild, when the whole campaign should be about mature persuasion. Make 'em mature quickly, with a spell in jug.

 

[GearJammer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-29347368

I don't f**king believe that '40' people got on the train....... and they arrested '3'......... 37 people got away with it?

Won't be long before they do this again then will it!

 

[table38]

I don't f**king believe that '40' people got on the train....... and they arrested '3'......... 37 people got away with it?

Won't be long before they do this again then will it!

They could always prosecute them for getting on a train without a valid ticket

 

[DT611]

I agree. A large lobby group like Greenpeace could easily afford to foot the bill.

most likely, whether they would actually pay up on the other hand, well i wouldn't know. i don't think these people care about jail so anythings possible IMO

 

[Intercity]

Get off your high horses everyone,

99.99999% of the coal will have been delivered, Greenpeace made a very effective protest and all you're doing by moaning about it is giving them publicity.

 

[ainsworth74]

The thing is I don't subscribe the the mantra that 'any publicity is good publicity'. As far as I'm concerned this incident has just highlighted once again that Greenpeace aren't even worth the contempt they deserve. I felt similar when the fools decided to mess with the Russians and tried to play the sympathy card after the Russian responded to their 'protest' by throwing them in jail and charging them with piracy.

Greenpeace may have got themselves some publicity from this but they ain't come out looking particularly good. Which is shame as climate changes is an issue which needs tackling quite seriously...

 

[Intercity]

They want to be thrown in jail though, especially in a foreign land,

The fact that you even know of these incidents is testament to their ability to garner publicity,

Stunts like this are what make them a world famous group, for every 100 of you who log on somewhere to announce their disgust, another person will join up/donate.

 

[andypops]

The fact that you even know of these incidents is testament to their ability to garner publicity,

Stunts like this are what make them a world famous group, for every 100 of you who log on somewhere to announce their disgust, another person will join up/donate.

So using this logic to have a wander on a somewhat unrelated tangent - is this the ISIL/ISIS philosophy?

Can you honestly say that deliberately annoying 99% of people to gain the support of 1% is a sensible strategy?

Why should the lives of the vast majority in any rational society be inconvenienced by a few IMHO terrorists acting illegally in pursuance of cheap publicity? I'm not on about suppressing freedoms, but in blatant acts like this the freedoms are clearly being abused.

All 40 who were on the train, along with the lieutenants who orchestrated the incident and pre-prepared the press statements etc should all be whizzed off to the clink. No ifs or buts. In fact, those involved in the planning and "hands off support" should bear the brunt of the law's wrath.

 

[Intercity]

So using this logic to have a wander on a somewhat unrelated tangent - is this the ISIL/ISIS philosophy?

Can you honestly say that deliberately annoying 99% of people to gain the support of 1% is a sensible strategy?

Why should the lives of the vast majority in any rational society be inconvenienced by a few IMHO terrorists acting illegally in pursuance of cheap publicity? I'm not on about suppressing freedoms, but in blatant acts like this the freedoms are clearly being abused.

All 40 who were on the train, along with the lieutenants who orchestrated the incident and pre-prepared the press statements etc should all be whizzed off to the clink. No ifs or buts. In fact, those involved in the planning and "hands off support" should bear the brunt of the law's wrath.

Green issues have more backing in the last 10 years than any other time in history, Greenpeace and their stunts have undoubtedly helped this cause.

You call them terrorists, i think that's just you using the language of the gutter press, you might as well call everyone who who protests a terrorist, please remember this was an entirely peaceful protest before calling them terrorists.

 

[HSTEd]

They are engaged in low level criminality as part of an attempt to rage against 'the system' while attacking anyone who attempts to actually solve the problems they use as excuses.
(For example the hatred of nuclear power which would solve the climate change problem).

 

[andypops]

You call them terrorists, i think that's just you using the language of the gutter press, you might as well call everyone who who protests a terrorist, please remember this was an entirely peaceful protest before calling them terrorists.

I am NOT using "the language of the gutter press", not would I contemplate repeating word-for-word garbage by some of the most morally corrupt organisations funded almost exclusively by a small number of wealthy individuals or institutions with dubious investment profiles and an axe to grind. I am quite capable of forming my own opinions, but thank you for checking just to be sure. I always appreciate having to justify things like this to random strangers who may or may not just be trolling

I was (and still am) simply drawing a comparison between this action and with what is currently occurring in other parts of the world right now, to demonstrate my point that it is irresponsible, wrong and reprehensible for a few individuals acting under the auspices of a global organisation (with easily enough liquidity to fund significant research into the problems which these people are [rightly or wrongly] fighting against, or to eliminate the third world debt) to use a confrontational approach which inconveniences, harasses or intimidates others.

I know you'll say it isn't an inconvenience - but it plainly was if it prevented the power station from running. You'll also probably ask who it harassed or intimidated. Well, we're on a rail forum so lets just consider the effect on the driver. Will any driver delivering to this power station, on this line or in fact anywhere around the country think twice over the next few weeks if they get an odd aspect or see a large group of people lineside?

So yes, to summarise - they are terrorists IMHO. And while it may seem arrogant to you, I can't see any point about which you can rationally disagree.



And to strike while the iron is hot (so to speak), about "peaceful" protests -

By taking direct action and breaking any law, their choice of action to "protest" is by any reasonable definition unpeaceful. In fact, I believe there may be an argument that all protests by assembly or demonstration could be called unpeaceful, as those who take part have failed to come to the table and air their grievances - or to listen to a balanced or reasonable argument and accept defeat. Again, I can't see how any other conclusion may be reached from either a point of logic or reason, and would be delighted if you could maybe come up with a response which I haven't addressed in this (increasingly verbose) response.

Have a wonderful day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They are engaged in low level criminality as part of an attempt to rage against 'the system' while attacking anyone who attempts to actually solve the problems they use as excuses.
(For example the hatred of nuclear power which would solve the climate change problem).

+1

There will always be an "out crowd", looking to rally against the "system"...

 

[ModernRailways]

Green issues have more backing in the last 10 years than any other time in history, Greenpeace and their stunts have undoubtedly helped this cause.

You call them terrorists, i think that's just you using the language of the gutter press, you might as well call everyone who who protests a terrorist, please remember this was an entirely peaceful protest before calling them terrorists.

You know what makes me laugh is the fact that so many enthusiasts are ticked off because how dare they stop mah trainz. Example, no enthusiasts seemed to care when they scaled The Shard about the BP (?) fiasco but because it involved a train they lose their nut. I bet if they stopped a lorry people wouldn't care.

All they've done is help, they spammed the Greenpeace Facebook page ensuring Greenpeace's posts get pushed further up feeds because people are interacting!

I'm not a member of Greenpeace, but I do agree with quite a few of the things they say, and quite a lot of other people do too. What they did yesterday has worked, it's got people talking about it even if it is for all the wrong reasons (I think they did right, but hey ho I don't want an argument)!

It's pretty pointless this topic though as all it is, is going around in circles - maybe it should be moved to General Discussion since it's no longer really anything to do with the railway?

 

[swj99]

Just to summarise then, to save anyone else having to trawl through all 6 pages.

Some pathetic idiots deserve to be run over, put away, slapped, or nicked by riot police. Coal not stolen. No RPIs available, and even though there were 40 people on the train, only 3 were pinched by the peelers. Presumably the other 37 had tickets. Ignore them and they'll go away, just like ISIS. And something about The Railway Children.

Is that right ?

 

[andypops]

You know what makes me laugh is the fact that so many enthusiasts are ticked off because how dare they stop mah trainz. Example, no enthusiasts seemed to care when they scaled The Shard about the BP (?) fiasco but because it involved a train they lose their nut. I bet if they stopped a lorry people wouldn't care.

This is a rail forum (in case it wasn't clear enough already... :roll so isn't it to be expected that we look at the issue from a rail point of view...? If you want to complain about global warming, there are several other forums available elsewhere which may be better suited to your needs?

Why don't we move this discussion along and talk about other groups who plan to disrupt the railway, what the potential consequences may be from an operational POV.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just to summarise then, to save anyone else having to trawl through all 6 pages.

Some pathetic idiots deserve to be run over, put away, slapped, or nicked by riot police. Coal not stolen. No RPIs available, and even though there were 40 people on the train, only 3 were pinched by the peelers. Presumably the other 37 had tickets. Ignore them and they'll go away, just like ISIS. And something about The Railway Children.

Is that right ?

You missed the bit about delay repay and who should sue whom to recover their losses...

 

[WessexEclectic]

They are engaged in low level criminality as part of an attempt to rage against 'the system' while attacking anyone who attempts to actually solve the problems they use as excuses.
(For example the hatred of nuclear power which would solve the climate change problem).

Question for Greenpeace: What did people in the UK use to light their homes before candles?













Answer: Electricity!

 

[Emyr]

Candles are an unsustainable lightsource. An oil lamp can burn a locally sourced liquid fuel, or a wind-up torch could be used.

I agree with the objection to using coal for electricity but given there are nimbys who will oppose anything new, we're stuck with the status quo.

 

[Intercity]

I am NOT using "the language of the gutter press", not would I contemplate repeating word-for-word garbage by some of the most morally corrupt organisations funded almost exclusively by a small number of wealthy individuals or institutions with dubious investment profiles and an axe to grind. I am quite capable of forming my own opinions, but thank you for checking just to be sure. I always appreciate having to justify things like this to random strangers who may or may not just be trolling

I was (and still am) simply drawing a comparison between this action and with what is currently occurring in other parts of the world right now, to demonstrate my point that it is irresponsible, wrong and reprehensible for a few individuals acting under the auspices of a global organisation (with easily enough liquidity to fund significant research into the problems which these people are [rightly or wrongly] fighting against, or to eliminate the third world debt) to use a confrontational approach which inconveniences, harasses or intimidates others.

I know you'll say it isn't an inconvenience - but it plainly was if it prevented the power station from running. You'll also probably ask who it harassed or intimidated. Well, we're on a rail forum so lets just consider the effect on the driver. Will any driver delivering to this power station, on this line or in fact anywhere around the country think twice over the next few weeks if they get an odd aspect or see a large group of people lineside?

So yes, to summarise - they are terrorists IMHO. And while it may seem arrogant to you, I can't see any point about which you can rationally disagree.



And to strike while the iron is hot (so to speak), about "peaceful" protests -

By taking direct action and breaking any law, their choice of action to "protest" is by any reasonable definition unpeaceful. In fact, I believe there may be an argument that all protests by assembly or demonstration could be called unpeaceful, as those who take part have failed to come to the table and air their grievances - or to listen to a balanced or reasonable argument and accept defeat. Again, I can't see how any other conclusion may be reached from either a point of logic or reason, and would be delighted if you could maybe come up with a response which I haven't addressed in this (increasingly verbose) response.

Have a wonderful day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


+1

There will always be an "out crowd", looking to rally against the "system"...

You're comparing a group of activists who momentarily stopped a train and caused a minor inconvenience to a terror group beheading people on camera, attempting genocide and wanting to rule a vast amount of the world, i think you need to get these things into perspective.

The clue as to what makes a terrorist a terrorist is obviously the word terror, i can't speak for train drivers but i doubt they're sat in the canteen this morning in a state of terror, petrified to drive their train this morning, they'll be a little more wary at worst.