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Groupsave not available due to event
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IanD
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London Midland tried it when Northampton Town were in the Wembley play-offs. Soon had to back down due to public outcry.
There's an entire page on the National Rail site dedicated to Groupsave barred dates. Seems only ATW and FGW apply them.
BestWestern
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N Levers:1546772 said:
Indeed, all major events on the FGW network generally incur a Groupsave bar.
At one time there was a Groupsave ban on First Great Western on every Saturday there was a Premiership football match in London regardless of who was playing but they seem to have relaxed that now.
greatkingrat
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Such restrictions are of dubious enforceability seeing as FGW's own site will offer Groupsave tickets for days that are supposedly banned.
East Midlands Trains barred GroupSave on routes into Nottingham that involved a rail replacement bus during the recent works. In addition, between May and September there are also restrictions on GroupSave into Skegness - restricting them to arrivals after 1300 Sundays to Thursdays, and barring them completely on Fridays and Saturdays.
bb21
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I saw that on a poster at Sleaford station last month. Brilliant way to tell the passengers that the company cares about them - by making them pay more for a longer and less comfortable journey.
They can't charge passengers who already bought tickets any more, but they can refuse to sell (any more) tickets for those dates at the cheaper price.
So if someone was to find a website or booking office that did not enforce the ban at the time of purchase, then I do not think that they would have anything to worry about.
Basic contract law states that you enter a contract based on a certain set of terms and conditions. No party to a contract can subsequently modify the T&Cs under which the contract was established without the agreement of the other party. So yes, National Rail lie (or at least do not adequately explain the situation with respect to those who purchased tickets before restrictions were imposed)!
Indeed no TOC would be daft enough to attempt legal action based on such circumstances because that would be one sure fire way to ensure that EU consumer protection legislation which may/may not (there are divergent views) apply to UK rail currently very rapidly did so!
NSEFAN
Established Member
Goatboy said:
Pricing people off the trains is an age-old but effective tactic for reducing overcrowding. Of course, it'd be nice if TOCs had empty trains sitting around for times like these, but sadly the modern railway is governed by the harsh mistress which is accounting!
LexyBoy
Established Member
Yes, it's not as if there were 9 Turbos stabled at Reading depot and HSTs at Old Oak, with half the usual service frequency to Wales whilst people were queueing to get home from the Reading festival...
BestWestern
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NSEFAN:1548187 said:
Hmm, do you know where her office is?!! ;-D
starrymarkb
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Have to chuckle at the idea they bar tickets intended to encourage groups of people to use public transport on days when it might be really beneficial for a group of people to use public transport instead of driving
For Dawlish Airshow you can easily get 100,000 people in the area (and you won't get near it by car). The local sets run doubled up all day, and usually an HST operates an Exeter to Newton Abbot shuttle. All Full and Standing
The fares for Dawlish are pretty low anyway, I presume the group save ban helps cover the HST and extra staff needed
Flamingo
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By lunchtime it had settled, and trains to Wales were the normal frequency for a BH.
It's not like the organisers of these events give the railways any kickback to cover extra trains.
LexyBoy
Established Member
Settled down to the usual loading for a bank holiday: packed
My "half the frequency" was of course referring to a normal Monday - just running the usual frequency would have given extra trains. I'm sure there's a reason why this would have been absolutely impossible though. (In any case it's people travelling on XC who I feel really sorry for, and I don't think XC could run more trains even if they wanted to).
True, those thousands of people would have bought tickets to travel across the country in any case...
Out of interest, do the Cheltenham Races (or Newbury Races) organisers give FGW money to run the extra trains on those dates? Or do the punters spend enough on bottles of bubbly in the bar to pay for them?
Flamingo
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Probably the extra money spent on booze does cover something!
I'll agree, South Wales needs the half- hourly trains more on a Sunday and Bank Holiday than it does on the average weekday (I work them, I know exactly how packed they are!), but setting the extra traffic paths, plus getting the staff in to work them, especially on Sundays, would be the insurmountable obstacle!
The thing about these big events (Rugby, Glastonbury and other festivals, Football, Racing), is that people pay what a lot of people would consider extortionate prices for the tickets, have more than enough money for alcohol and food (again at extortionate prices), but bitch and moan that they have to buy a train ticket too and from them.
If one is to take the definition of peak-time to be "a time of highest demand" not "the time a lot of people go to work", then the train tickets around these events should by rights be Anytime prices only. It's what airlines do when big international sporting events are on, and is expected of them.
Getting back on-thread, somebody told me that there might be group tickets going to Glastonbury, as the "block" was not put in place quickly enough in the on-line booking system when the date was announced, and that we should honour those tickets.
I'll agree, South Wales needs the half- hourly trains more on a Sunday and Bank Holiday than it does on the average weekday (I work them, I know exactly how packed they are!), but setting the extra traffic paths, plus getting the staff in to work them, especially on Sundays, would be the insurmountable obstacle!
The thing about these big events (Rugby, Glastonbury and other festivals, Football, Racing), is that people pay what a lot of people would consider extortionate prices for the tickets, have more than enough money for alcohol and food (again at extortionate prices), but bitch and moan that they have to buy a train ticket too and from them.
If one is to take the definition of peak-time to be "a time of highest demand" not "the time a lot of people go to work", then the train tickets around these events should by rights be Anytime prices only. It's what airlines do when big international sporting events are on, and is expected of them.
Getting back on-thread, somebody told me that there might be group tickets going to Glastonbury, as the "block" was not put in place quickly enough in the on-line booking system when the date was announced, and that we should honour those tickets.
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That's odd. Do people buy so far ahead? And have next year's dates been blocked?
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/48462.aspx only gives dates for the next 3 months but next year's Glastonbury dates are available.
Flamingo
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IanD
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Get off at Tilehurst for the Reading festival - probably just as close as Reading for some of the campsites.
Most walk-up tickets bought from the Southern website currently benefit from the Southern 'Money Back Guarantee', so if a passenger wished to purchase a walk-up ticket well in advance, this would seem to be a good option.
I do agree that any Groupsave tickets purchased [and contract for travel entered into] before a restriction is subsequently imposed on the use of such tickets ought to be honoured.
As for BoJ, the wording on the NRE website suggests that journeys to or from the named stations are barred for Groupsave, and in my opinion a passenger who purchases an A to D ticket for travel from A to C, stopping short at C, has actually made a journey from A to C, with Groupsave restrictions applying accordingly.
A possible grey area is using a combination of tickets; A to B with Groupsave, and B to C (C being the 'barred' station for Groupsave tickets) without it, but, again, my view is that, unless a passenger actually breaks their journey at B, this would constitute a single journey from A to C and so Groupsave tickets would not be permitted on any part of that journey.
I do agree that any Groupsave tickets purchased [and contract for travel entered into] before a restriction is subsequently imposed on the use of such tickets ought to be honoured.
As for BoJ, the wording on the NRE website suggests that journeys to or from the named stations are barred for Groupsave, and in my opinion a passenger who purchases an A to D ticket for travel from A to C, stopping short at C, has actually made a journey from A to C, with Groupsave restrictions applying accordingly.
A possible grey area is using a combination of tickets; A to B with Groupsave, and B to C (C being the 'barred' station for Groupsave tickets) without it, but, again, my view is that, unless a passenger actually breaks their journey at B, this would constitute a single journey from A to C and so Groupsave tickets would not be permitted on any part of that journey.
But would they have been informed of the restrictions on Groupsave on that day?
But you're not stopping short, it's a Break of Journey, the Journey is still from A to D.
When I went to the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff a few years back we were staying in Swansea for the night. So got Groupsave Tickets from London to Swansea and broke at Cardiff for the match on the way to Swansea and continued after the Break to Swansea.
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