GTR - “Cut-price train tickets to lure commuters back on Mondays and Fridays”

[bakerstreet]

Looks like these are advances only for specific trains..
Not really ideal for a work commute.
Of course, GTR could just ease peak time restrictions on flexible tickets.

Britain’s biggest train company is offering cheaper tickets to encourage more commuters to return to offices on Mondays and Fridays.

Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) said it has started selling Advance tickets for travel on some of its Southern services during the morning and evening peak periods on those days, saving passengers up to 15%.
The coronavirus pandemic has led to a major change in travel patterns, with many commuters only heading into offices on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays.

GTR said its morning peak services only carry around 210,000 passengers on Mondays, compared with between 230,000 and 250,000 on each of the middle three days of the working week.

Cut-price train tickets to lure commuters back on Mondays and Fridays

Govia Thameslink Railway has started selling more Advance tickets for some of its Southern services during morning and evening peak periods.

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Wallsendmag]

Looks like these are advances only for specific trains..
Not really ideal for a work commute.
Of course, GTR could just ease peak time restrictions on flexible tickets.

Cut-price train tickets to lure commuters back on Mondays and Fridays

Govia Thameslink Railway has started selling more Advance tickets for some of its Southern services during morning and evening peak periods.

www.independent.co.uk

I'm not so sure, I use the same two trains to and from work when I'm in the office so it could work.

 

[bakerstreet]

I'm not so sure, I use the same two trains to and from work when I'm in the office so it could work.

It could. Provided
- you’re in a 8-5 or fixed time job
- nothing unexpected will keep you back
- no meetings will overrun
- you know your working pattern and all its uncertainties on a particular day up to 12 weeks in advance.

For a discount of only c15% for a significant risk of buying a new ticket v working from home?

Out of interest, Can you set your own work schedule? Do you receive a free season ticket and/or priv facilities?
This may affect your view.

 

[hooverboy]

This is a lesson in how to make life difficult.
Instead of all these loyalty schemes and advance tickets, just price monday to friday as either "off peak" or "weekend" rates,and do it for ALL fares.TVM included.
Much easier for everyone to understand,and it only requires a tweak or two from machine software.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't even consider using Advances for this sort of journey unless they were like Northern's, i.e. available in near-unlimited numbers to purchase immediately before travel, so not really Advances in the traditional sense, but using that ticket type.

 

[Snow1964]

It might work where trains are fairly infrequent (every 30 minutes or hourly), but in my experience of commuting, even if you aimed for same train, sometimes would be delays on tube or buses, so often tended to get whatever came first (and sometimes would be a late running earlier train).

Also not clear to me from the article if the advances include seat reservations, (if it doesn't then not much good, and useless if they don't employ guards to move people sitting in wrong seats)

I don't remember Southern or Thameslink being very good at labelling seat reservations, or even keeping trains sensibly labelled so coach letters are in alphabetical order when units are coupled.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also not clear to me from the article if the advances include seat reservations, (if it doesn't then not much good, and useless if they don't employ guards to move people sitting in wrong seats)

There are no seat reservations on any GTR service, so no, they'll be counted places.

 

[Hadders]

A long distance commuter will likely use 'fixed time' trains but someone using suburban ir inner suburban services that run far nore frequently is less likely to commit to an exact train, especially on the way home.

Some possible better ways to do this:

1. Make Mondays and Fridays off-peak all day (though they'd probably lose too much revenue if they did that)
2. Bring back the old style carnet pricing that gave a 20% discount. GTR did this well and it was much better than the miserly flexi-tickets that have replaced them
3. Offer some sort of 'commuter railcard' that would give a discount on fares at anytime

 

[Bletchleyite]

A long distance commuter will likely use 'fixed time' trains but someone using suburban ir inner suburban services that run far nore frequently is less likely to commit to an exact train, especially on the way home.

Some possible better ways to do this:

1. Make Mondays and Fridays off-peak all day (though they'd probably lose too much revenue if they did that)
2. Bring back the old style carnet pricing that gave a 20% discount. GTR did this well and it was much better than the miserly flexi-tickets that have replaced them
3. Offer some sort of 'commuter railcard' that would give a discount on fares at anytime

4. Change the Off Peaks to Super Off Peak, and introduce a "Business Saver" Off Peak type ticket between the price of an Anytime and of an Off Peak, valid Monday and Friday only.
5. Remove evening peak restrictions on Monday and Friday if they have them, so an Anytime Day Single in and a Super Off Peak back can be used. If Anytime Day Singles aren't half the return, reduce so they are.
6. (note) - Network Railcards can be useful for (3) provided the Anytime Day Single is close to half the Return. From Bletchley there is a considerable saving any day a week by buying an Anytime Day Single in and a Network Railcard discounted Off Peak back.

 

[GodAtum]

Very hard to book these tickets. Just searched for Lewes - Victoria next Monday and availability is quite limited.

 

[Bread & cheese]

There is a bit more detail at:
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/govia...ters-back-to-monday-and-friday-travel-3233936

To encourage more people to commute on Mondays and Fridays, GTR has launched a trial of Advance tickets on Southern peak trains (morning and evening), for a limited number of journeys in both directions between East Croydon, Clapham Junction and London Victoria, and stations south from Three Bridges, as far east as Eastbourne and as far west as Chichester.
These Advance peak tickets will show up in Southern’s journey planner when people go to book up to 12 weeks in advance, and save up to 15% compared to the price of a standard peak fare Anytime Day Return ticket. They can be bought up to the day before travel but it’s first-come, first served.
...
From Brighton, where there are no Southern trains to London, customers will be offered Advance Monday and Friday peak fares to Victoria only, using a Thameslink train that connects with a Southern service further up the line.

(It seems impossible to put the above in a quote box on my iPad) Edited for you.

 

[Alex365Dash]

4. Change the Off Peaks to Super Off Peak, and introduce a "Business Saver" Off Peak type ticket between the price of an Anytime and of an Off Peak, valid Monday and Friday only.

GTR already have two types of Super Off-Peak as is (at least for Brighton - London Victoria) depending on whether you get a weekday or weekend Super Off-Peak ticket, whilst both are just marked as Super Off-Peak. Understanding the restrictions between these two isn’t too bad since you can more think of it as morning and evening peak restrictions on weekdays only.

Moving the Off-Peak to Super Off-Peak then gives another problem - if both the current weekday Super Off-Peak and the renamed Super Off-Peak tickets are sold on weekdays, how do you distinguish between the two?

I’d leave the Off-Peak as is and add the new ticket you suggest as a "Commuter Saver" ticket instead without any reference to the Anytime or Off-Peak fare structure, which if the ticket’s named well enough, shouldn’t be an issue. (See SWR’s Sunday Out and Evening Out tickets.)

 

[Taunton]

As always with reducing fares, you have to understand Revenue Dilution, that is where the additional revenue from those who are now attracted to travel is offset, sometimes more so, by those who would have travelled at the previous fare anyway who now are travelling at a cheaper rate. Their advantage, but not the railway's.

One thing about the business/office world is that increasingly, and Lockdown notably advanced this, the concept of very fixed working hours is breaking down, people stay on, have another day working from home, come in on their now normal at home day for some reason, don't know when they are going to finish, etc. At our office there's nobody who works fixed 9-5.30 days any more. One who used to commute daily by train now drives on the days they come in, it was always marginal but having to pay full price has made the difference.

 

[fandroid]

And where does this fit within simplification of train fares?

Every clever marketing trick just makes the whole lot even more complex.

The publicity gives the impression that these tickets are only available via the Southern journey planner. Is that true? Isn't it time that these clever little one-company income boosters were banned? Or if not true, knuckles rapped for giving that impression? The government takes all the revenue so should be interested in maximising it, and availability via multiple retailers must help that. Unless they don't really like Trainline with it's nice little percentage and firm grip on non-TOC ticket sales.

 

[Wallsendmag]

And where does this fit within simplification of train fares?

Every clever marketing trick just makes the whole lot even more complex.

The publicity gives the impression that these tickets are only available via the Southern journey planner. Is that true? Isn't it time that these clever little one-company income boosters were banned? Or if not true, knuckles rapped for giving that impression? The government takes all the revenue so should be interested in maximising it, and availability via multiple retailers must help that. Unless they don't really like Trainline with it's nice little percentage and firm grip on non-TOC ticket sales.

It's simpler, more flows now have Advance fares bringing them into line with the rest of the network. No fancy new ticket types with odd restrictions just Advance like most other places

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's simpler, more flows now have Advance fares bringing them into line with the rest of the network. No fancy new ticket types with odd restrictions just Advance like most other places

Advances are clearly well established on long distance flows, but do many people really use them for journeys like Clapham Jn to Victoria? I can't imagine they do.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Advances are clearly well established on long distance flows, but do many people really use them for journeys like Clapham Jn to Victoria? I can't imagine they do.

I read it the other way, from VIC CLJ and ECR to the southern points

 

[Bread & cheese]

Looking at Chichester to Victoria on Monday 6 March.
The anytime day return route Three Bridges is £66.20.
An anytime single out plus an offpeak single back with a Network Railcard is £36.50 + £22.70 = £59.20.
A Flexi Season is £407.70, or £407.70/8 = £50.96 per day, if you go at least twice a week.
A 7 Day Season is £132.70 = 2x £66.35 or 3x £44.23
The Southern journey planner, and the SWR app, are offering advance singles at £28.10 on peak time services. 2x £28.10 = £56.20, which gives the advertised 15% discount on the anytime day return.
It is cheaper to get an advance single out, and an offpeak single back with a Network Railcard, £28.10 + £22.70 = £50.80.
So the best options for peak travel are:
3 days per week: 7 Day (or longer) Season £44.23 per day (or less)
2 days per week: Flexi Season £50.96 per day (it's not worth tying yourself down to advance singles on Monday and Friday only to save 16p a day)
1 day per week, Monday or Friday: advance single out and offpeak single back with Network Railcard £28.10 + £22.70 = £50.80 per day
1 day per week, Tuesday Wednesday or Thursday: anytime single out and offpeak single back with a Network Railcard £36.50 + £22.70 = £59.20

1 I'm not convinced that the peak time advance singles will "entice commuters back to the office at either end of the working week" in large numbers.
2 Not a simple fares structure.
3 Offpeak advance singles can be very cheap, so out peak time, back before the rush hour might tempt some people.
4 Chichester to London is a very long way to commute.

 

[miklcct]

Are these fares now available for East Croydon - London Thameslink commutes, which traditionally don't have Advance tickets?

 

[MikeWh]

Are these fares now available for East Croydon - London Thameslink commutes, which traditionally don't have Advance tickets?

Not the way I read it. It's for Victoria or Clapham Junction or East Croydon to Three Bridges and beyond.

 

[miklcct]

Not the way I read it. It's for Victoria or Clapham Junction or East Croydon to Three Bridges and beyond.

Thanks, so it's basically a useless promotion as Three Bridges or beyond is further than where normally considered "inner suburban" of London - where a London commute is commonplace.

 

[Watershed]

4 Chichester to London is a very long way to commute.

Not if you only do it once or twice a week. Three or more times a week, yes at that point I think it would start to get rather tedious. Especially if you end up with a 3+2 seated 377!

 

[Alex365Dash]

I read it the other way, from VIC CLJ and ECR to the southern points

To be fair, who’d want to use an Advance from Three Bridges to East Croydon either?

I’ve also just noticed that the top three tiers of standard class Advances for Three Bridges to East Croydon cost more than the Anytime Day Single…

 

[paul1609]

Thanks, so it's basically a useless promotion as Three Bridges or beyond is further than where normally considered "inner suburban" of London - where a London commute is commonplace.

I had 4 years commuting from Arundel/Littlehampton into London Bridge in the late 1980s. on the morning peaks all the seats on the 12 car trains would be full before Horsham on the Arun Valley line and Hove on the coastway. The peaks trains would run non stop from Crawley or Haywards Heath to Victoria only calling at East Croydon. Up until Covid there was still considerable London Commuting from the coast, its this traffic disappearing that's caused GTRs revenue reduction.
When you consider that pre covid in terms of revenue GTR was roughly the equivalent of LNER + Avanti +half of GWR its not difficult to see why the industry is now in trouble.

 

[Hadders]

I would say that 25 km as the crow flies (approximately London - Coulsdon, the Zone 6 boundary) is the maximum I am willing to commute for 5 days per week, up to 49 km for 3 days per week (approximately London - Crawley, the inner suburban boundary), 81 km (approximately London - Brighton, the outer suburban boundary) if done once per week, if the money is taken out of my consideration.

Anywhere further than that I will consider it completely out of the commuter area.

You’re out of touch with reality.

Loads commute from places like Reading, Milton Keynes, Bedford, Stevenage and beyond.

On my local line from Stevenage to London an Anytine Day Return to London Termibals is £24.80, an off peak day return (with no evening restrictions) is £19.60. Just make the Off PeaknDay Return usable in the morning peak on Mondays and Fridays, essentially you’ve got a nice, simple way of giving a 20% reduction.

No need for Advance fares (which are farcical when there are 10 trains an hour), or a new fare. Nice and simple!

 

[miklcct]

You’re out of touch with reality.

Loads commute from places like Reading, Milton Keynes, Bedford, Stevenage and beyond.

On my local line from Stevenage to London an Anytine Day Return to London Termibals is £24.80, an off peak day return (with no evening restrictions) is £19.60. Just make the Off PeaknDay Return usable in the morning peak on Mondays and Fridays, essentially you’ve got a nice, simple way of giving a 20% reduction.

No need for Advance fares (which are farcical when there are 10 trains an hour), or a new fare. Nice and simple!

Long commutes destroyed my health a few years ago which I won't be willing to do again. That commute was about 25 km rural-to-rural with a toll road in-between making driving unaffordable so I had to use public transport no matter how bad it was.

 

[sammyg901]

This would work for me as I buy two singles anyway (Anytime in to the office with a split & a network railcard discounted Anytime to come home) as this works out cheapest. I take the same train to the office in the morning so no problem to buy a fixed time ticket and I could be persuaded to go on a Monday if the discount was significant.

 

[Snow1964]

There are no seat reservations on any GTR service, so no, they'll be counted places.

Sorry to be naive, but how do advances without reservations work on a commuter train. What happens if other commuters have filled the seats.

Or are you basically saying they are selling tickets to specific trains where you might have to stand if all seats are taken.

Rather inconsistent with marketing of some other rail operators who advertise book Advance tickets for a comfortable journey etc. Rather suggests it would nationally devalue the term Advance ticket if doesn't come with a seat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry to be naive, but how do advances without reservations work on a commuter train. What happens if other commuters have filled the seats.

You stand.

Or are you basically saying they are selling tickets to specific trains where you might have to stand if all seats are taken.

Yes.

Rather inconsistent with marketing of some other rail operators who advertise book Advance tickets for a comfortable journey etc. Rather suggests it would nationally devalue the term Advance ticket if doesn't come with a seat.

Which TOCs advertise Advance tickets in that way?

 

[MikeWh]

Long commutes destroyed my health a few years ago which I won't be willing to do again. That commute was about 25 km rural-to-rural with a toll road in-between making driving unaffordable so I had to use public transport no matter how bad it was.

I sympathise. I also suffered with a long commute, made worse by the post Hatfield chaos. However, many people can and do manage them.