GTR cancellations including not operating from Victoria until 10th Jan

[dk1]

Why are your Company Council accepting this?

Beat me to it.

 

[Horizon22]

There are also plenty of people at the top who haven't

As you might have in any industry. It's a bit ridiculous to think that every senior manager everywhere has worked all the way up from the shop floor in the same industry to their senior position. Whilst it might be more beneficial in certain industries (perhaps like the railway), certainly doesn't need to be a pre-requesite and actually having staff with a variety of experience prevents group-think - not that I'm sure the DfT needs help with that!

 

[Deepgreen]

I just hope this problem is actually resolved for the start of service on 11th of January.

I would imagine that is 99% unlikely. Omicron and other illnesses won't suddenly be gone then, and the resultant staff absences won't magically disappear either. I also wonder if other variants will arise more quickly in winter with a greater proportion of personal contact being indoors than in summer, for example. Now that the testing iand isolating regime is well established I imagine it will become a normal part of life (and not necessarily just for C19), and the knock-on effects on workplace attendance could be gigantic. That, plus a fear of mixing on public transport, added to its reduced service and reliability may start a spiral of decline, especially as funding will drop dramatically for services which are perceived to be under-used. Very concerning. On the other hand Johnson has promised a green recovery, so everything will surely be fine.

 

[yorksrob]

I would imagine that is 99% unlikely. Omicron and other illnesses won't suddenly be gone then, and the resultant staff absences won't magically disappear either. I also wonder if other variants will arise more quickly in winter with a greater proportion of personal contact being indoors than in summer, for example. Now that the testing iand isolating regime is well established I imagine it will become a normal part of life (and not necessarily just for C19), and the knock-on effects on workplace attendance could be gigantic. That, plus a fear of mixing on public transport, added to its reduced service and reliability may start a spiral of decline, especially as funding will drop dramatically for services which are perceived to be under-used. Very concerning. On the other hand Johnson has promised a green recovery, so everything will surely be fine.

I can't see the strict testing and isolating regime lasting particularly. Maybe more of an acceptance of people working from home/taking time off when ill.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I've lived near that line for over 10 years, when ever there is a major football game involving Arsenal or Spurs we wend up seeing a mass number of cancellations!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2022 ==


Exactly, both the Moorgate lines to WGC & the Hertford Loop have mass cancellations at weekends.

Especially when Arsenal or Spurs have a major game. When Spurs played Liverpool in the Champions League final yhe service had significant number of cancellations due no drivers.

Could this be because the operator is managing the situation so that trains are available and in position when needed to clear the crowds leaving the stadium?

 

[yorkie]

Can we stick to GTR cancellations including not operating from Victoria until 10th Jan in this thread please

 

[30907]

Its about running anything to Victoria. People who live at or want to get to Wandsworth Common or Battersea Park might still want to use those stations

Of course, and if you could be sure of the resources to run them, then yes, Fast to Slow north of Balham.

 

[gray1404]

I just hope this problem is actually resolved for the start of service on 11th of January.

For the avoidance of doubt I mean Southern operating services to and from London Victoria from 11th January.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Why are your Company Council accepting this?

Didn’t they get fined £250k a few years back for not towing the DfT line?

 

[dk1]

Didn’t they get fined £250k a few years back for not towing the DfT line?

That was a very different issue & to do with the ongoing strike action at the time. Things like this are day to day & are normally agreed without argument.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

Well, If London Victoria is not having any trains on the Southern side till Mon 10th Jan? Would Network Rail carry on with the engineering works till Mon 10th Jan staff permitting?

 

[zwk500]

Well, If London Victoria is not having any trains on the Southern side till Mon 10th Jan? Would Network Rail carry on with the engineering works till Mon 10th Jan staff permitting?

By the sounds of some of the posts above, they are doing. However Staff aren't the only concern - there's also the available materials and approvals for works still under design that can't just be asked to hang around for an extra week. NR will probably look to remove any 'snagging' works like Temporary Restrictions or drainage concerns that they don't normally get access for long enough, but major work isn't so easy to move up by 6 months with a week's notice.

 

[Southern Dvr]

That was a very different issue & to do with the ongoing strike action at the time. Things like this are day to day & are normally agreed without argument.

GTR have been (so my contacts tell me) asked to have meeting with ASLEF about on call at home etc since early December however they were not granted an audience. A similar story from various other TOCs. The guidance as I understand it is that if you feel a crew room is over occupied to take your PNB at another location and inform control. There is also advice to restrict 2 in cab activities such as router learning.

The industry was never going to be able to prevent this ripping through the workforce like wildfire but it may have been able to slow it down slightly more.

My understanding is that DfT refused to allow any extra measures or reintroduction measures as it would have gone against ‘freedom day’ back in July.

 

[Failed Unit]

Well, If London Victoria is not having any trains on the Southern side till Mon 10th Jan? Would Network Rail carry on with the engineering works till Mon 10th Jan staff permitting?

I guess equipment could be a challenge as well as it could be on its way to the next possession. My knowledge is outside the railway industry on infrastructure projects. But if you miss your chance you rarely get a 2nd shot quickly. (Hence we often plan for 2 successive nights in case the 1st doesn’t work). If a customer says can we do it tomorrow it is normally not possible as you can‘t get staff / equipment. The resource planning is so tight it is normally on another job or not on duty

suspect NR have the same issue. Great but the staff are all off duty as they used their hours up last week.

 

[717001]

Well, If London Victoria is not having any trains on the Southern side till Mon 10th Jan? Would Network Rail carry on with the engineering works till Mon 10th Jan staff permitting?

It looks like Network Rail are adding extra work: https://twitter.com/NetworkRailSE/status/1477598953482993665

Our colleagues are running a revised service next week with no trains from #Victoria. We'll be wrapping up our engineering work on Monday night as planned (there are
@TfL
trains, freight, anti-ice, and empty workings still running on the same routes) however we will be back... /1
... on Friday after our people have had a break (they've been flat-out since Christmas Day) and doing more work on tracks and also platforms 13+14 at #ClaphamJunction. For that reason, those platforms are out of action until next week as we've increased the amount of work... /2
... we can get done on them, to make the most of this opportunity. For a closer look at the major project behind this Christmas's closures, check this out:https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...ondon-victoria-track-and-signalling-upgrades/

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It looks like Network Rail are adding extra work: https://twitter.com/NetworkRailSE/status/1477598953482993665

They are but only from this Friday and over the weekend so a route over the Slow lines should still be available and i guess there will be the freights that run via WLL still needing to run.

 

[dk1]

I guess equipment could be a challenge as well as it could be on its way to the next possession. My knowledge is outside the railway industry on infrastructure projects. But if you miss your chance you rarely get a 2nd shot quickly. (Hence we often plan for 2 successive nights in case the 1st doesn’t work). If a customer says can we do it tomorrow it is normally not possible as you can get staff / equipment. The resource planning is so tight it is normally on another job or not on duty

suspect NR have the same issue. Great but the staff are all off duty as they used their hours up last week.

Cheers for that. Seems a very odd state of affairs compared to the reasonably good TOC/Aslef relationship where I work.

 

[choochoochoo]

GTR have been (so my contacts tell me) asked to have meeting with ASLEF about on call at home etc since early December however they were not granted an audience. A similar story from various other TOCs. The guidance as I understand it is that if you feel a crew room is over occupied to take your PNB at another location and inform control. There is also advice to restrict 2 in cab activities such as router learning.

The industry was never going to be able to prevent this ripping through the workforce like wildfire but it may have been able to slow it down slightly more.

My understanding is that DfT refused to allow any extra measures or reintroduction measures as it would have gone against ‘freedom day’ back in July.

So once again our incompetent government and their imbecilic decisions are partly responsible for the rapid spread through the workforce.

That doesn't surprise me. But don't GTR have a duty of care and like others have said ASLEF should be doing more to ensure that management take up that responsibility.

 

[hwl]

They are but only from this Friday and over the weekend so a route over the Slow lines should still be available and i guess there will be the freights that run via WLL still needing to run.

The P13/14 platform island is out for some attention next weekend hence down fast and up slow not available.

 

[Economist]

The railway runs to a considerable extent on staff goodwill and overtime, with the lack of social distancing measures why would anyone want to come in and work a rest day? This is especially true of any drivers who are more vulnerable to Covid. I know the government and media are making the case that it's all down to Covid but if they could motivate enough people to make themselves available to work rest days, I reckon they'd get a lot of the work covered.

 

[mmh]

treasury set the financial rules.

Which rules? I'm afraid it's an urban myth that this is how government spending works. Once something is allocated, it is. There's no continuous check. The check is after the event, when the OBS or NAO might ask what the money was actually spent on. Inter-department checks? Nope. They do not happen.

 

[RJ]

Emergency engineering works taking place in the Blackfriars area tonight which has broken the Bedford to Three Bridges service - chose the wrong night to travel!

Hope it is resolved by morning!

 

[Edgemaster]

The possession appears to have been handed back a little early, all three railhead treatment trains through the area ran ahead of schedule this morning.

Realtime Trains - 3Y07 0215 Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 3Y08 0205 Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 3Y90 0155 Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Peregrine 4903]

The possession appears to have been handed back a little early, all three railhead treatment trains through the area ran ahead of schedule this morning.

Realtime Trains - 3Y07 0215 Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 3Y08 0205 Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 3Y90 0155 Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf to Tonbridge West Yard Gbrf

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

These are anti icer trains.

 

[Bishopstone]

I hadn’t realised that, here on Coastway, the ‘restricted’ timetable involves a full Saturday service of local trains: eg 6tph between Lewes and Brighton, and the 2tph Brighton - West Worthing shuttles running.

This is all getting quite confusing, as I believe when the ‘full’ timetable is restored, then (eg) Lewes - Brighton will halve back to 3tph in most hours.

In terms of trip planning, I’ve resorted to getting-up early; checking what’s running from live departure boards, and working from there.

The service seems to be running well today. I guess the early days of the New Year see lots of volunteers for overtime.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Southern will be introducing some services back to Victoria according to Southern website

From Monday 10 January 2022 until further notice
We will provide details of the service we plan to operate as soon as possible. Some services to and from London Victoria will be re-introduced.

 

[foggy69]

This week, with the restricted timetable, there is a better service on the East Grinstead line during the week than there has been for month's

 

[6Gman]

Southern will be introducing some services back to Victoria according to Southern website

Interesting.

Perhaps sufficient staff have been available to plan some sort of service.

In which case it surely made a lot of sense not to make any announcement until arrangements had been . . . well, arranged.

(I speak as a one-time [long ago now] short-term train planner)

 

[zwk500]

Interesting.

Perhaps sufficient staff have been available to plan some sort of service.

In which case it surely made a lot of sense not to make any announcement until arrangements had been . . . well, arranged.

(I speak as a one-time [long ago now] short-term train planner)

To be fair, it was prudent to warn that there wouldn't be services if that was a likely outcome. It is better for both the operators and passengers to add things in at the last minute than to take things away without warning.

(I sense a thousand people are going to jump on this post with 'well they did take things away at the last minute....')

 

[Horizon22]

Southern will be introducing some services back to Victoria according to Southern website

I am not surprised that they've been able to reintroduce something with a little bit of planning. Whilst some TOCs have been very badly hit by absences, I am often surprised how much can be covered by shifting diagrams around and covering extra work and utilising every inch out of one driver's available time!

This week, with the restricted timetable, there is a better service on the East Grinstead line during the week than there has been for month's

That's mostly the point of emergency timetables - reduce the service but to a reliable and stable level & ensures consistency across the route as opposed to ad-hoc cancellations disproprotionately affecting some areas worse than others and at differing times of day.