GTR delay-repay rejections due to new timetable

[Failed Unit]

Starting this to see how people are getting on with claiming GTR since the introduction of the new timetable. I am now submitting at least 2 claims every day and about 75% of them get rejected.

Most common reasons.
1. The train you are claiming for did not exist. (Real reason they removed it from the timetable overnight before I was due to travel). Example last week was due to use 0856 WGC - Cambridge service. Was in the timetable before I went to bed. Woke up in the morning and as if by magic it was gone.

2. The ticket you are claiming for is not valid. GTR are rejecting the WGC Travelcards on Northbound journeys claiming they are not valid on the journey. This is concerning as this is very basic training.

At the moment I am just appealing (once) but I am going to collect up all rejections and send them to travelwatch as I personally believe it is unacceptable that GTR are trying to profit out of this timetable change by rejecting legitiate claims. I really hope that GTR have action taken against them. Delay repay claims with them have always been very difficult with the aim of putting people off claiming.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Starting this to see how people are getting on with claiming GTR since the introduction of the new timetable. I am now submitting at least 2 claims every day and about 75% of them get rejected.

Most common reasons.
1. The train you are claiming for did not exist. (Real reason they removed it from the timetable overnight before I was due to travel). Example last week was due to use 0856 WGC - Cambridge service. Was in the timetable before I went to bed. Woke up in the morning and as if by magic it was gone.

2. The ticket you are claiming for is not valid. GTR are rejecting the WGC Travelcards on Northbound journeys claiming they are not valid on the journey. This is concerning as this is very basic training.

At the moment I am just appealing (once) but I am going to collect up all rejections and send them to travelwatch as I personally believe it is unacceptable that GTR are trying to profit out of this timetable change by rejecting legitiate claims. I really hope that GTR have action taken against them. Delay repay claims with them have always been very difficult with the aim of putting people off claiming.

If there is a fair sum involved and Transport Focus are, as is to be expected, of no help then you may wish to take things further than merely customer service level - i.e. Letters before Action.

 

[Haywain]

2. The ticket you are claiming for is not valid. GTR are rejecting the WGC Travelcards on Northbound journeys claiming they are not valid on the journey. This is concerning as this is very basic training.

Can you clarify what you mean by this? A Travelcard is a specifically London based product, so would not apply to journeys from Welwyn Garden City to Cambridge (Unless it is a Cambridge to London Zones 1-6 ticket).

 

[mallard]

Can you clarify what you mean by this? A Travelcard is a specifically London based product, so would not apply to journeys from Welwyn Garden City to Cambridge (Unless it is a Cambridge to London Zones 1-6 ticket).

Pretty sure the OP is referring to the use of a WGC-London Zones Travelcard to return to WGC at the end of the day. A completely different jouney to the WGC-Cambridge journey in point (1).

 

[richw]

Can you clarify what you mean by this? A Travelcard is a specifically London based product, so would not apply to journeys from Welwyn Garden City to Cambridge (Unless it is a Cambridge to London Zones 1-6 ticket).

I read it as being a separate journey and claim.

 

[Failed Unit]

Can you clarify what you mean by this? A Travelcard is a specifically London based product, so would not apply to journeys from Welwyn Garden City to Cambridge (Unless it is a Cambridge to London Zones 1-6 ticket).

Yes I will, as this is two problems journeys.

Journey 2 was a Welwyn Garden City - London travel cards zone 1-6.

The other issue was just general rejections.

Thanks for clarifying aswell Mallard - but yes 2 different journeys. (rejection 1 happening a lot)

 

[Haywain]

1. The train you are claiming for did not exist. (Real reason they removed it from the timetable overnight before I was due to travel). Example last week was due to use 0856 WGC - Cambridge service. Was in the timetable before I went to bed. Woke up in the morning and as if by magic it was gone.

Thanks for clarifying the other issue, but I think on this one that if you have not booked a journey using the specified train then you don't really have a claim as it is not a cancellation but a timetable alteration, albeit at short notice.

 

[Silverdale]

So what is the precise difference between a cancellation and a short notice, one off change to the timetable on a particular date?

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc....

In principle at least, a timetable is published far enough in advance that a customer can make an informed choice about purchasing a ticket to travel, in expectation that the train operator will operate the advertised service. By any normally understood meaning of the word, if for one reason or another the advertised service doesn't run, it has been cancelled and any promises the operator has made to the customer in respect of a cancellation should apply. A TOC trying to claim that the timetable was amended beforehand, on a one off, day-to-day basis, is duplicitous.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for clarifying the other issue, but I think on this one that if you have not booked a journey using the specified train then you don't really have a claim as it is not a cancellation but a timetable alteration, albeit at short notice.

GTR haven't announced an emergency timetable. They can't make the timetable up as they go along. Well, that's exactly what they're doing but they shouldn't be doing this for delay repay purposes.

 

[talldave]

Thameslink reply to Twitter enquiries that as long as the train you're claiming for is in the full timetables on the RailFail2020 site you can claim a delay against it. But of course we cannot expect two parts of the incompetent GTR organisation to be aligned can we?

 

[Haywain]

GTR haven't announced an emergency timetable.

From the National Rail site: "short term amended timetable".

 

[Abpj17]

I've had a 100% success rate so far. 5 so far and 1 is still pending (and was arguably more complicated). It's complex work trying to identify the details to claim for those but all trains are subject to such eractic timing.

 

[superalbs]

Have had one rejected recently, from before the new timetable, reason being:

Having checked our records for the details of the delay you provided to us, our system cannot find the journey that you intended to make so we are unable to proceed with your claim at this time.

I wonder if they were checking the system on the new timetable, despite this being a delay from the old timetable. :/

Chased it up, currently being given silent treatment (2 weeks).

 

[Hadders]

From the National Rail site: "short term amended timetable".

But where is this timetable published? Looking it up on a journey planner as the train's pulling into the station doesn't really constitute a timetable.

Is there a PDF of this amended timetable?

 

[Failed Unit]

But where is this timetable published? Looking it up on a journey planner as the train's pulling into the station doesn't really constitute a timetable.

Is there a PDF of this amended timetable?

That is my view on Fridays claim.

Journey WGC - Edinburgh departing 0856 via Stevenage. First I knew the train was removed was Friday morning. On Thursday evening at 2230 it was still in the journey planner. So going for 60+ minute delay.

Going back to the travel card. Claimed for whole family at same time. ⅔ were accepted so definitely a training issue.

More from yesterday to do. Wasn’t good yesterday.

 

[benk1342]

I’ve also had a 100% success rate against nearly daily claims, including for trains that have been removed in the emergency timetable.

The Great Northern Delay Repay site (and presumably those of the other GTR brands) now has a message stating:

Claiming while we are operating an amended Thameslink and Great Northern service
If your journey is delayed by 15 minutes or more, you can claim compensation. Whilst we work with our industry partners to reduce short notice cancellations, our passengers travelling on Great Northern or Thameslink services can claim against either the original May 2018 timetable shown on www.railplan2020.com, or the train service in place on the day you travelled.

If there are persistent delays on a route, season ticket holders are also sometimes entitled to enhanced compensation.

So it is clear that the intention is not to reject claims made against the original 20 May timetable.

 

[Royston Vasey]

In industry they would have declared force majeure, which does not have to be caused by factors entirely outside an organisation’s control and can be entirely within it. But there is no force majeure clause in the contract, i.e. the NRCoC.

It’s hard to feel sorry for GTR, and the mess isn’t the passengers’ fault, but given how this was rushed through by more than just GTR, Network Rail and the DfT must shoulder at least equal blame in this, and it seems Govia will be saps losing millions because of those decisions.

 

[Silverdale]

Govia will be saps losing millions because of those decisions.

Before we get our hankies out to dry Govia's tears, it's worth considering that if GTR can show it has had to pay additional compensation as a result of decisions made or actions taken by others, Govia won't be slow in claiming its own compensation in turn.

 

[Haywain]

Govia will be saps losing millions because of those decisions.

It's unlikely Govia will be losing anything. They are a management contract and all revenue risk is with the DfT.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Before we get our hankies out to dry Govia's tears, it's worth considering that if GTR can show it has had to pay additional compensation as a result of decisions made or actions taken by others, Govia won't be slow in claiming its own compensation in turn.

It's unlikely Govia will be losing anything. They are a management contract and all revenue risk is with the DfT.

Taxpayer it is then. What a mess!

I do feel a bit sorry for GTR. They've been set up to fail. They've been hung out to dry to take all the blame

 

[talldave]

Taxpayer it is then. What a mess!

I do feel a bit sorry for GTR. They've been set up to fail. They've been hung out to dry to take all the blame

I don't - they've been incompetent for as long as I've had the displeasure of dealing with them. In my books they're in the same league as npower and Santander for incompetence. The difference for me being that I've chosen to never deal with either of those organisations again as long as I live. Sadly, with GTR, there's no choice.

 

[Haywain]

I think they have been given a poisoned chalice, but they've failed to handle it with any class.

 

[Failed Unit]

I think they have been given a poisoned chalice, but they've failed to handle it with any class.

I would argue they didn't have to bid for it It was a nasty franchise - but agree they haven't handled it well.

 

[talldave]

According to Thameslink's Twiter feed they're still sending out the fraud accusation emails. They really are beyond belief.

 

[Failed Unit]

According to Thameslink's Twiter feed they're still sending out the fraud accusation emails. They really are beyond belief.

I am having better success rates now. Normally getting it first time including on “withdrawals”. But expecting my Fraud letter soon as I now need to cliam every single journey.