GTR witness statement

[eero]

Hi all, got a witness statement for buying a ticket on the train. When the scanned the QR code they said it was bought within the last 10 minutes. I usually buy my QR code as soon as I enter the train since I don’t have gate at my station and get of at a London terminal. I explained the situation in full to a friend who loves trains and he noticed I’ve been using a railcard on journeys but coming in before 10. I wasn’t aware this was a rule and I assumed that the ticket rules would state otherwise when I questioned him how you’re supposed to know (similar to off peak and peak rule being clearly stated on the uber app when buying tickets).

I took my job working remotely and then 2 days and 3 days and then 5 days. When I first too it, I didn’t travel before 9:30 to 10 anyways so that’s how I’ve always just repurchased the same ticket over and over again. Of course now I know the severity of the situation and because it’s happened many times I’m wondering how bad it could get. I’ve never not paid but paid a discounted rate. Some month I came in everyday without fail so I bought a month pass so that should reduce the amount of repeats. What’s the next steps and how do I communicate that I’m willing to pay the difference immediately.

As anyone if I see a lower price and the ticket rules seem the same I’m going to pay the lower price, I don’t usually seek paying more for the same thing. Having read all the t&cs now I understand the responsibility is on me baring in mind I’ve had my ticket checked many times before and shown a railcard and no one has ever told me this rule or notified me that’s why the price is cheaper after 10 but now I know I won’t do it again. Any advice would be great, from what I read it will be a while before I get the first letter

 

[SuspectUsual]

If we're going to help you, we'll need a bit more information.

Where are you travelling from and to?

Which train company are you dealing with?

Can you upload a copy of any paperwork they've given you, but with your personal details obscured

Exactly what ticket had you bought when you were stopped?

 

[eero]

Of course. Kidbrooke to London terminal return. This route use southeastern and then thameslink. But was stopped by thameslink officers. I haven’t got any other paperwork that then orange witness statement paper so can send that if need. I buy an any time day return after 10. Before anyone asked I noticed it was cheaper when I first started doing it but I read the ticket rules about how you can break journeys etc, it didn’t mention anything so didn’t think much of it

 

[Hadders]

Which railcard are you using. Some of them allow journeys to be made at peak times but some don't.

 

[eero]

it would have changed this year but 17 to 25 at first then 26-30, i bought the first one when you could get 3 years just before you turn 24 and then 1 years after. when i buy them i dont usually check the rules every time

 

[AlterEgo]

it would have changed this year but 17 to 25 at first then 26-30, i bought the first one when you could get 3 years just before you turn 24 and then 1 years after. when i buy them i dont usually check the rules every time

That could be expensive for you I’m afraid. There’s a minimum fare before 10am, a well publicised limitation of those railcards. They’re entitled to charge the excess for every occasion you travelled earlier, so if they detect that when auditing your purchases you can expect to have to pay that on top of any settlement.

 

[Hadders]

16-25 Railcards and 26-30 Railcards can be used in the morning peak but are subject to a minimum discounted fare of £12 if travelling before 10:00 on weekdays. The minimum fare does not apply on the 16-25 version in July or August.

You don't say where you were travelling to but Kidbroke to London Terminals is £9.80 Anytime Day Return and so you willfall foul of the minimum fare. Websites and apps won't apply the discount to journeys at an invalid time. It seems to me that what you were doing was selecting a journey after 10:00 but travelling before this time (albeit the ticket was an Anytime ticket).

 

[eero]

exactly, i dont mind paying fare, id just rather avoid court as i just didnt think anything of the matter especially looking at the ticket rules which i thought would have all this one them. even after all my reading, i wasnt aware you could use railcard on peak time if it was over 12, i just thought you couldn't so good to know for the future at least. The months i knew id be in everday i got a month pass which shouldnt have any issues with that but other months it was on the edge of 4/5 days a week so just bought daily. Whats the likelihood of going to court?

 

[Haywain]

When the scanned the QR code they said it was bought within the last 10 minutes.

So, did you buy the ticket after boarding the train? If so, you almost certainly committed an offence in doing so regardless of the fare paid and any railcards used.

 

[eero]

It depends, that day yes, but other days if i arrive at the platform early id buy on the platform if not id buy on the train after making it. again didnt think much of it because at the end of the day i paid. Will they be looking at just that or will they go through everything? i wasnt stopped for the rail card situation but thats just what came up after a discussion with a friend since he had a similar thing

 

[island]

You commit an offence whenever you board a train without having first obtained a ticket or other permission to travel. It is illegal to board the train and then buy an e-ticket. Kidbrooke station has a ticket office and multiple ticket machines.

It's cheaper in many circumstances to use Oyster with your Railcard discount.

 

[AlterEgo]

Which station do you finish your journeys at?

 

[eero]

You commit an offence whenever you board a train without having first obtained a ticket or other permission to travel. It is illegal to board the train and then buy an e-ticket. Kidbrooke station has a ticket office and multiple ticket machines.

It's cheaper in many circumstances to use Oyster with your Railcard discount.

I understand that now, like I said I didn’t think anything of it because I always bought before exiting my last station. I always thought it was an offence to not be able to display a valid ticket when asked.

Which station do you finish your journeys at?

Would prefer refraining since this a public forum. But it’s a London terminal as stated, there’s no disagreement there

 

[jfollows]

I understand that now, like I said I didn’t think anything of it because I always bought before exiting my last station. I always thought it was an offence to not be able to display a valid ticket when asked.

It is, but it’s also an offence not to have a valid ticket before boarding a train. Online ticket purchases show the time of purchase which can be compared against the train’s departure time from the origin station.

 

[eero]

So do you think they will go for a fine/charges of the difference etc or am I going to court and losing my job??

 

[jfollows]

So do you think they will go for a fine/charges of the difference etc or am I going to court and losing my job??

You will probably be able to settle out of court with GTR for the full cost of fares avoided plus £100-£150 towards their costs.

 

[AlterEgo]

Would prefer refraining since this a public forum. But it’s a London terminal as stated, there’s no disagreement there

I mean you're not exactly working for MI5 here, how many cases do you think the company has from someone caught in this way coming from Kidbrooke? The destination of your journey may make a material difference in how investigators choose to handle this. First thing they'll suspect is you travel ticketless or partially ticketless and then use the TfL network somewhere like Farringdon. The company can audit your previous purchases and depending on what they find it may make things more complicated for you.

 

[eero]

When the letter arrives do I explain the full situation or just what I was stopped for ?

 

[Haywain]

So do you think they will go for a fine/charges of the difference etc or am I going to court and losing my job??

You will probably be able to get an out of court settlement but even if it goes to court there is no certainty that you would lose your job as that would depend on the nature of your employment and the terms of your contract.

 

[island]

So do you think they will go for a fine/charges of the difference etc or am I going to court and losing my job??

Going to court does not imply losing your job.

 

[eero]

I mean you're not exactly working for MI5 here, how many cases do you think the company has from someone caught in this way coming from Kidbrooke? The destination of your journey may make a material difference in how investigators choose to handle this. First thing they'll suspect is you travel ticketless or partially ticketless and then use the TfL network somewhere like Farringdon. The company can audit your previous purchases and depending on what they find it may make things more complicated for you.

Fair comment and I get all that but like I said it’s to London terminal. Not like a generic one, like a terminal in London but the ones listed as a London terminal ie, Waterloo, London Bridge, Blackfriars etc. I get what you’re saying though