GW 769s to Scotrail?

[380101]

Could they be used on the Largs branch in poor weather when the juice has to be turned off at Saltcoats to prevent arcing?

They don't turn the power off during high tides/poor weather! They just don't run any trains now.

You won't be seeing 769s in ScotRail service as they don't fit into the new fleet plan in anyway. 318, 320, 334 and 156 all to be withdrawn and brand new emus to replace 318, 320 and 334. 158s will take over the 156 routes.

Expect an announcement in the very near future for procurement of new trains for ScotRail - all via the Scottish government procurement process.

 

[snowball]

Expect an announcement in the very near future for procurement of new trains for ScotRail - all via the Scottish government procurement process.

Many thanks, I'll keep my eyes peeled!

 

[Snow1964]

Expect an announcement in the very near future for procurement of new trains for ScotRail - all via the Scottish government procurement process.

There was statement about 14 months ago that a tender would be issued mid 2023 (so obviously delayed bit).

Definitely no 769s indicated, was one of 3 expected phases for Scotland. Phase 1 deliveries are expected 2027-2030. Was for EMUs and battery EMUs, at least 64 units and about 290 vehicles, with options to nearer 550 vehicles

 

[317 forever]

As hinted earlier, they could be good for Barrhead and East Kilbride before and after electrification goes live on those lines.

They could even go onto Maryhill services pending potential electrification.

 

[snowball]

There was statement about 14 months ago that a tender would be issued mid 2023 (so obviously delayed bit).

The only statement I saw at that time was the one which led @diamond chap to create this thread. As far I can see it doesn't say anything as specific as "mid-2023" - only "2022-23".

 

[positron]

Given they're preparing a tender for new trains it would be odd to take the 769s unless they're a desperate stop gap. And given they never actually worked with GWR it would have to be incredibly desperate?

 

[3RDGEN]

This story came out a month or so back about a shortage of units for the Levenmouth route next Spring;

"https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/fife/4684009/levenmouth-rail-timetable/"

"Levenmouth rail link: Fears train shortage could mean just one train an hour on new route. A shortage of rolling stock and drivers could result in fewer trains than expected, at least to begin with."

Not sure why their short of DMU's given the service cuts on Scotrail but perhaps cover for the HST's is behind it?

 

[snowball]

This story came out a month or so back about a shortage of units for the Levenmouth route next Spring;

"https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/fife/4684009/levenmouth-rail-timetable/"

"Levenmouth rail link: Fears train shortage could mean just one train an hour on new route. A shortage of rolling stock and drivers could result in fewer trains than expected, at least to begin with."

Not sure why their short of DMU's given the service cuts on Scotrail but perhaps cover for the HST's is behind it?

Soon after that item, the Fife and Tay Cities timetable consultation was started:

Fife and the Tay Cities Timetable Consultation

Scotrail have released this today as part of the planning for the (re)opening for stations at Cameron Bridge and Leven. https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-scotrail/future-timetables/fife-and-tay-cities-timetable-consultation As part of our vision to support thriving, connected, and resilient...

www.railforums.co.uk

It's based round an admitted shortage of resources but doesn't say whether that means trains, drivers or what.

 

[D365]

I've just spotted on LinkedIn, the previously mentioned Class 769s at Brodie Engineering in Kilmarnock.

Brodie Engineering are delighted to welcome the first of two Class 769 Flex Units to it’s Caledonia Works in Kilmarnock. Working in collaboration with Porterbrook, the vehicles will undergo scheduled maintenance activities.

They're certainly keeping shtum about any potential customers for Porterbrook!

 

[Blindtraveler]

My money is on them doing that maintenance before a period of testing with Scott Rail commences

There are several places on the network that these would work beautifully

 

[3RDGEN]

The 769's have been sat for a long time and they haven't needed "maintenance" offsite before so it's odd that Porterbrook have now decided to drag them hundreds of miles, past numerous other maintenance sites, for "maintenance". Maybe a review of possible work required for ScotRail of a few units to ease the DMU situation..

It does make a bit of sense as the 769's are modified 319's which was an evolution of the 318's so there not a totally new product to ScotRail from a maintenance/operations point of view. If you used them on the East Kilbride route until it's electrified you can claim greenwash points for removing some more diesel units from Glasgow Central, same for the Anniesland route into Queen St. Not sure how replacing 156's gets you 158/170's for the rest of the ScotRail network though.

 

[Clansman]

Brodies have been doing maintenance for other operators for years; 155s, 321, and 317s to name a few. Not sure why them suddenly doing 769s makes it worthy of ScotRail speculation.

The only place you'd be putting 769s on in the medium term is Kilmarnock/Barrhead/East Kilbride which would free up 156s for elsewhere (if Leven was proving that much of a problem that 156s need to cover for 158s/170s in Fife). Then you've got to answer the question as to why ScotRail would see the 769s as operationally feasible when GWR clearly never saw them worthy enough to see the project through to the finish line on reliability, and if that's the case, what need has arised which mean the original procurement process to replace the 156s has slowed from the past year or so?

To me it sounds like a solution looking for a problem. The ones at ScotRail are known but nothing yet has indicated, beyond the HST debacle, that DMUs are in shorter order than is necessary to provide bare minimum at the current service levels.

 

[fgwrich]

Brodies have been doing maintenance for other operators for years; 155s, 321, and 317s to name a few. Not sure why them suddenly doing 769s makes it worthy of ScotRail speculation.

The only place you'd be putting 769s on in the medium term is Kilmarnock/Barrhead/East Kilbride which would free up 156s for elsewhere (if Leven was proving that much of a problem that 156s need to cover for 158s/170s in Fife). Then you've got to answer the question as to why ScotRail would see the 769s as operationally feasible when GWR clearly never saw them worthy enough to see the project through to the finish line on reliability, and if that's the case, what need has arised which mean the original procurement process to replace the 156s has slowed from the past year or so?

To me it sounds like a solution looking for a problem. The ones at ScotRail are known but nothing yet has indicated, beyond the HST debacle, that DMUs are in shorter order than is necessary to provide bare minimum at the current service levels.

You have to remember though that it wasn’t GWRs decision to stop using the 769s, but that of the DfT who pulled the plug. Although there is a tender out, and certain classes don’t feature in ScotRails permanent future fleet plan, I could still see these being bought up, albeit in a limited number, to assist in a temporary basis with some lines and routes such as East Kilbride until either full electrification is commenced or a new or battery unit replaces them.

 

[92002]

You have to remember though that it wasn’t GWRs decision to stop using the 769s, but that of the DfT who pulled the plug. Although there is a tender out, and certain classes don’t feature in ScotRails permanent future fleet plan, I could still see these being bought up, albeit in a limited number, to assist in a temporary basis with some lines and routes such as East Kilbride until either full electrification is commenced or a new or battery unit replaces them.

Guess the 769s could be used as a quick fix for any BEMUs that have yet to be ordered Useful on part electric/diesel services. Like Kilnarnock and East Kilbride. In time when OHL gets installed on Fife Circle. They do need to be made reliable first though.

 

[AMD]

For those with the crayons out, read the latest issue of Modern Railways in which Northern are getting just 2201 miles between technical faults that cause delays (MTIN); which when compared to Northern's legacy fleet of 15x which are in the region of 8000 miles, shows how problematic these are, even after a couple of years of running. Even now we still worry about the changeover at Bolton.....
So why would ScotRail even be vaguely interested in them when in the same magazine Alex Hynes talks about a 'boringly reliable service'.

 

[92002]

For those with the crayons out, read the latest issue of Modern Railways in which Northern are getting just 2201 miles between technical faults that cause delays (MTIN); which when compared to Northern's legacy fleet of 15x which are in the region of 8000 miles, shows how problematic these are, even after a couple of years of running. Even now we still worry about the changeover at Bolton.....
So why would ScotRail even be vaguely interested in them when in the same magazine Alex Hynes talks about a 'boringly reliable service'.

Think the reliability is what is being addressed at Brodie in Kilmarnock. If they can be made more reliable they may find some use. Otherwise it could be a trip to Newport.

 

[3RDGEN]

For those with the crayons out, read the latest issue of Modern Railways in which Northern are getting just 2201 miles between technical faults that cause delays (MTIN); which when compared to Northern's legacy fleet of 15x which are in the region of 8000 miles, shows how problematic these are, even after a couple of years of running. Even now we still worry about the changeover at Bolton.....
So why would ScotRail even be vaguely interested in them when in the same magazine Alex Hynes talks about a 'boringly reliable service'.

I agree no one would want to take them on but ScotRail do appear to be short of diesel units for the Levenmouth services and they also suffered terrible overcrowding on the HML this summer due to units having to cover for HST's. So what other diesel options are available, put the HST fleet back to full strength and get them reliable, 175's or 769's that's their only diesel options today so a very small number of 769's are possibly the "best" of a bad job as a short-term stop gap.

 

[92002]

I agree no one would want to take them on but ScotRail do appear to be short of diesel units for the Levenmouth services and they also suffered terrible overcrowding on the HML this summer due to units having to cover for HST's. So what other diesel options are available, put the HST fleet back to full strength and get them reliable, 175's or 769's that's their only diesel options today so a very small number of 769's are possibly the "best" of a bad job as a short-term stop gap.

Perhaps ScotRails easy solution is to use more of their HSTs and release DMUs for other services. Although their reliability is not best either

 

[D7666]

As posted on another forum I am collecting data for a book called "101 Uses For A Dead 769" please keep the suggestions rolling.

 

[317 forever]

As posted on another forum I am collecting data for a book called "101 Uses For A Dead 769" please keep the suggestions rolling.

101 uses for a dead 769 is nothing. There were 769 uses for a dead 101.

 

[380101]

Spotted a freshly painted class 769 poking out of the paint shop at Brodie Engineering this lunchtime.

It's in ScotRail blue with the silver doors, no spots applied yet and full new interior, including the standard ironing board seats.

Unfortunately unable to get any pictures due to driving a train.

 

[AMD]

I had to check that it wasn't April 1st all of a sudden

Curious.... Barrhead, Kilmarnock in the offing? And I hope they're ready for the sudden drop in reliability compared to 156s!

 

[wickham]

Surprise, surprise !!

 

[Ciderking]

This was reported on the 25 Sept 2023, 37884 hauling 769922 and 769937 from Long Marston to Brodies at Kilmarnock as 5Q08.

 

[SimplyLlama]

A quick Google search brings up this FOI: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/plans_to_introduce_class_769_uni from 4th January which says that ScotRail have no plans to introduce the units, but doesn’t mean that they actually do.

 

[Peter0124]

If Scotrail are taking them on, then in my opinion I think Queen Street to Anniesland would suit them best. As it's a short unelectrified route.

Though maybe the current 156/158/170 are best suited for it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If Scotrail are taking them on, then in my opinion I think Queen Street to Anniesland would suit them best. As it's a short unelectrified route.

Though maybe the current 156/158/170 are best suited for it.

I'd say Glasgow Ctrl - East Kilbride would be best, as they could make use of the recent electricity on the Eastern half of the route.

 

[hexagon789]

Leven, Girvan and Stranraer have been mentioned to me...

No confirmation if this is anything beyond a consideration, let alone a vague plan

I should add, it has also been suggested and seems more likely, that they are for Northern to bolster their fleet due to poor reliability and availability

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Leven, Girvan and Stranraer have been mentioned to me...

No confirmation if this is anything beyond a consideration, let alone a vague plan

I should add, it has also been suggested and seems more likely, that they are for Northern to bolster their fleet due to poor reliability and availability

Why would they fit them with Fainsa seating then? That’s not the way Northern have done their current 769s. The base colour for Northern is also white, not blue. And silver doors are part of the ScotRail livery.

 

[Waverleystu]

Could be Leven bound in time for the opening?