GWR Brighton services axed from May timetable change

[387star]

GWR is axing its direct Brighton trains from the May timetable change.

Brighton will lose yet another direct link having lost Birmingham Reading and Bournemouth over the last twenty years.

This has been confirmed by The Sussex Express

What are peoples' thoughts ?

https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/new...d-at-chichester-worthing-and-brighton-3584763

All Great Western Railway (GWR) services to the Sussex stations will cease from mid-May.

The decision comes as part of a new financial agreement between GWR and the Department for Transport.

It is said to be a 'significant move' as it brings all inter-regional services to Brighton to an end. It will also be the end of diesel powered passenger services along the Coastway West route

 

[swt_passenger]

GWR is axing its direct Brighton trains from the May timetable change.

Brighton will lose yet another direct link having lost Birmingham Reading and Bournemouth over the last twenty years.

This has been confirmed by The Sussex Express

What are people's thoughts ?

Not surprised to be honest. Its proposed removal has been consulted on quite a few times over the last ten years or more, but DfT always kicked the can down the road. I’d also be thinking the removal of SWR’s “off piste” Bristol workings set a precedent.

Personally I think the GWR trains have probably been on borrowed time ever since SN started running Brighton to Southampton hourly 7 days a week.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Unfortunately, not a single Southern service along the route is anywhere near as fast/limited-stop.

 

[Bald Rick]

Completely expected. It’s a very expensive way of providing a rather sparse service, that is truly of use to very few people.

 

[43066]

GWR is axing its direct Brighton trains from the May timetable change.

Brighton will lose yet another direct link having lost Birmingham Reading and Bournemouth over the last twenty years.

This has been confirmed by The Sussex Express

What are peoples' thoughts ?

https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/new...d-at-chichester-worthing-and-brighton-3584763

Must admit I always thought this was a distinctly strange use of rolling stock, for something of an oddball operation, well out of GWR’s core territory.

Does anyone actually use it?!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Must admit I always thought this was a distinctly strange use of rolling stock, and an operation which is obviously well out of GWR’s core territory.

Does anyone actually use it?!

Always very loaded when I used it, but probably by people all doing the same as me and using it to make a journey that the Southern services would cover like Worthing Havant, Chichester Southampton, etc.

 

[tbtc]

It was only a matter of time.

A handful of short DMUs with slow acceleration mixed into a world of longer/nippier EMUs on clock face timetables comes at quite a cost

There will always be people who like quirky "one-a-day" long distance services, but we'd be better focussing on shorter distance routes for everyday travel patterns rather than the "luxury" of links that people might do a handful fo times a year (e.g. Students)

 

[387star]

Must admit I always thought this was a distinctly strange use of rolling stock, for something of an oddball operation, well out of GWR’s core territory.

Does anyone actually use it?!

It's very busy on Friday afternoons often standing
A lifeline for the elderly too
And superior traction compared to 313s and the middle coaches of 377s

 

[Bishopstone]

Unfortunate, but unsurprising.

The more significant issue is whether Southern direct services between Brighton and Portsmouth/Southampton ever return.

 

[Bald Rick]

Does anyone actually use it?!

They were relatively busy, but the number of passengers travelling from one side of Southampton to the other was not so many, and the number of those who will elect not to use the train (rather than changing at Southampton) is smaller still.

 

[OscarH]

It probably makes sense to cut them, though I really hope Southern add a replacement Portsmouth/Southampton to Brighton service on the West Coastway in its place in the mornings, without it a lot of commuters would be screwed, eg. there is a gap between 7.05 and 7.58 for anyone commuting that way from Chichester. I would have been completely screwed without that service back in 2019

No more diesels on that line is a plus, though the 158s were always comfier than the Southern units (especially the scrap metal 313s )

 

[fgwrich]

A shame, but as others have already said is hardly surprising. It’s usefulness was primarily as a fast service along the coast way - hopefully Southern will be able to offer a faster service as a replacement.

On the side, Brighton hasn’t fared well with its long distance services over the last 2 decades, having lost both VXC and South West Trains services, now this. Only picking up Cambridge in lieu.

 

[swt_passenger]

It probably makes sense to cut them, though I really hope Southern add a replacement Portsmouth/Southampton to Brighton service on the West Coastway in its place in the mornings, without it a lot of commuters would be screwed, eg. there is a gap between 7.05 and 7.58 for anyone commuting that way from Chichester. I would have been completely screwed without that service back in 2019

No more diesels on that line is a plus, though the 158s were always comfier than the Southern units (especially the scrap metal 313s )

I can’t see much reason SN cannot run an early eastbound service from Portsmouth. Pre-Covid there were pretty early ECS moves to commence the service from Southampton, can’t remember if they arrived from Littlehampton or Bognor.

 

[43066]

Always very loaded when I used it, but probably by people all doing the same as me and using it to make a journey that the Southern services would cover like Worthing Havant, Chichester Southampton, etc.

I suppose that’s the answer. It’s an eccentric use of GWR units (and crews) to provide a service outside their region, which could be better provided by the local operator.

 

[Horizon22]

Always very loaded when I used it, but probably by people all doing the same as me and using it to make a journey that the Southern services would cover like Worthing Havant, Chichester Southampton, etc.

It is as many say well out of GWR's core area, and a limited service but people like the stopping pattern. However that is not to say theoretically something couldn't be provided of a similar limited stop service Southampton-Brighton.

Whether Brighton needs a better cross-country service is a different matter, but pretty much anything east of Southampton and south of London doesn't get that now due to the nature of terminals and services in that area. Personally I've often thought the West Coastaway has a real hodge-podge of services and needs to be better structured and consolidated.

 

[Parallel]

I think it's a shame it's going but obviously has limited appeal being operated by a diesel train, and only one or two services a day. I used it on a Saturday morning last October and the carriages were very well loaded. Many seemed to board the train from Barnham too - that seemed to be the railhead of that area. The train was full from Chichester, and then gradually got busier and busier until it was crushloaded from Trowbridge with people from Bradford-on-Avon unable to board. I'm not sure if this is typical of that morning service on a Saturday though. I wonder if we'll see some of these longer distance, infrequent, off-route train services cut under GBR.

In the week, there seems to be a fair number of passengers travelling Bristol - Brighton on these services so there clearly is a market, but probably not a profitable one for GWR... and just 1 (same platform) change at Fareham most of the day.

 

[Roast Veg]

Do Southern have adequate slack in the fleet to take on the capacity?

 

[JonathanH]

Do Southern have adequate slack in the fleet to take on the capacity?

They already run an hourly service from Brighton to Southampton and Brighton to Portsmouth. The passengers will dissipate across these services.

I wonder if we'll see some of these longer distance, infrequent, off-route train services cut under GBR.

Yes, it is a stated aim to remove unnecessary duplication of this sort.

and just 1 (same platform) change at Fareham most of the day.

Exactly

 

[Roast Veg]

They already run an hourly service from Brighton to Southampton and Brighton to Portsmouth. The passengers will dissipate across these services.

Posters upthread suggest there are quite a number of passengers to dissipate at certain times.

 

[Bishopstone]

They already run an hourly service from Brighton to Southampton and Brighton to Portsmouth. The passengers will dissipate across these services.

Not a direct service, after tomorrow (M-F). Requires a 20-minute connection at Barnham or Chichester.

 

[JonathanH]

Not a direct service, after tomorrow (M-F). Requires a 20-minute connection at Barnham or Chichester.

Ah, yes. Terminates at Chichester. I imagine that reflects demand and a lack of staff. The trains aren't full during the week anyway. Hopefully, it saves a bit of money.

 

[bramling]

I suppose that’s the answer. It’s an eccentric use of GWR units (and crews) to provide a service outside their region, which could be better provided by the local operator.

Agree on the latter point. It isn’t ideal to have a short DMU running on an electrified railway, and made all the more incompatible by virtue of being a long-distance fast service on a double track railway with many closely spaced stations.

Not worthwhile simply to provide for a few irregular longer distance journeys. Better to try and do something better with Southern services along there.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

These timetable changes from GWR and Southern therefore mean there is no direct service between Brighton and Southampton or between Brighton and Portsmouth. Changes at Barnham will be required. :/

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Agree on the latter point. It isn’t ideal to have a short DMU running on an electrified railway,

though strangely the 3 car 158s along there are actually longer than the 3 car 313s southern mostly use !

 

[bramling]

though strangely the 3 car 158s along there are actually longer than the 3 car 313s southern mostly use !

The 3-car EMUs are inadequate too. It was a 4-car railway until Connex created the 3COP units, presumably that was done partly to improve performance, though no doubt a cost saving as well.

 

[dk1]

To be honest I’m surprised that didn’t happen many years ago but it’s a shame all the same.

 

[Kite159]

I'm not that surprised, the writing must have been on the wall since December when the DfT/SWR got rid of the Waterloo - Bristol trains citing route duplication.

Although it is a bit sad because when they ran on Sundays before Covid they were always busy, and a lot faster than the Southern services which called at every granny's front door to Chichester and hence were massively overcrowded (so bad that I suspect some passengers from stations closer to Brighton effectively gave up using the train on Sundays as it was a gamble if they could actually board it)

 

[miklcct]

Although it's sad that another traditional link is lost, it's actually good for network health as mixing different kinds of stocks (DMU / EMU) / stopping patterns wastes track capacity, and such change will help the railway to build a more metro-like network, with fixed stopping patterns and convenient interchanges.

I hope that we can get to at least 2 tph for Brighton - Southampton service, spread 30 minutes apart, with one through train and one involving a change at Barnham. That will just need some retiming on the current services.

 

[mrcheek]

about time too. Pointless duplication, and a waste of a GWR unit that could be providing extra capacity in the GWR area.

But of course, it will disrupt that enormous Brighton to Malvern market......

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Most (but not quite all) weekends between now and the May timetable change, the Brighton trains won't be running anyway, usually due to some engineering work and bus replacements somewhere along the route between Westbury and Fareham. With that level of uncertainty over whether the trains would actually run at all, it was surely only a matter of time before they were pulled completely.