GWR Catering/Buffet Cars

[baz2277]

Hi all,

I've been watching the videos of the withdrawn GWR buffet cars heading for storage - is there a plan in mind for these? It seems such a waste, surely they could have a life as a normal cafe/buffet if they were offered up for sale? You already have a bar, counter, kitchen etc (toilet?).

I bet there'd be takers for them - i'd love one at my garden centre as a coffee shop!!

 

[sd0733]

If no-one wants them then the leasing company will offer them for disposal at some point. I believe most of the off lease coaches are from Porterbrook and Angel Trains.
Other old buffets have been converted to cafe/camping coach use including a mk3 i believe so should be feasible for some to find a role

 

[swt_passenger]

Could they fit them in 442s? Just thought I’d go straight to the ridiculous idea...

 

[nat67]

I hope the 125 Group get a 407XX for their HST set.

 

[JonathanH]

I hope the 125 Group get a 407XX for their HST set.

Are they going to have a "proper" HST set as well as the set formed of locomotive hauled Mk 3s?

They already have 10206 (ex 40507) in use and 10202 (ex 40504) in reserve.

 

[43096]

I hope the 125 Group get a 407XX for their HST set.

You need to read the FAQs on the 125 Group website: https://www.125group.org.uk/faqs/

Specifically:

Why have you only acquired locomotive-hauled Mark 3s?

We’ve made a decision to do this for two reasons. Firstly, HST ETS varies as the power rises and falls, so on a preserved line the air-conditioning will be much less effective as less time is spent in the higher power notches. Second, locomotive-hauled Mark 3s have the advantage of drop-head buckeye couplers and buffers, so can be coupled to any air-braked loco, making the coaches more useful in the long term.

 

[43096]

They already have 10206 (ex 40507) in use and 10202 (ex 40504) in reserve.

Both are in use.

 

[Richard Scott]

Pity the small micro buffets aren't considered for use in the 2+4 sets.I'm sure on journeys like Cardiff to Penzance the opportunity to buy refreshments would be welcomed unless of course a trolley service exists or is proposed?

 

[JonathanH]

Pity the small micro buffets aren't considered for use in the 2+4 sets.I'm sure on journeys like Cardiff to Penzance the opportunity to buy refreshments would be welcomed unless of course a trolley service exists or is proposed?

That would be ridiculous - if a trolley is good enough for the long distance trains, you don't need a buffet hatch on a 2+4 local train.

 

[Richard Scott]

That would be ridiculous - if a trolley is good enough for the long distance trains, you don't need a buffet hatch on a 2+4 local train.

I did say perhaps there was a trolley, if so that's all you had to point out.

 

[nat67]

You need to read the FAQs on the 125 Group website: https://www.125group.org.uk/faqs/

Specifically:

Fair enough.

 

[nat67]

I'm sure on journeys like Cardiff to Penzance the opportunity to buy refreshments would be welcomed unless of course a trolley service exists or is proposed?

There isn't going to be Cardiff-Penzance. At least not every hour, maybe one a day. Only Exeter-Penzance and Cardiff-Taunton. Read the GWR GTi thread.

 

[nat67]

You need to read the FAQs on the 125 Group website: https://www.125group.org.uk/faqs/

Specifically:

Wouldn't they need some sort of HST Mk3 so it can couple up to the production power car?

 

[43096]

Wouldn't they need some sort of HST Mk3 so it can couple up to the production power car?

Why?

You can couple a loco-hauled Mark 3 to a production power car without any problem: retract the buffers on the Mk 3, buckeye up, couple. It's no different from coupling 41001 (which has a LHCS type drop-head buckeye at the gangway end) to a production HST power car or HST set, which has been done on more than one occasion.

 

[Richard Scott]

There isn't going to be Cardiff-Penzance. At least not every hour, maybe one a day. Only Exeter-Penzance and Cardiff-Taunton. Read the GWR GTi thread.

Was only a suggestion - went on the 57 hauled set last year, buffet was open and doing quite a decent trade. Agree that Cardiff - Taunton not worthwhile but Exeter - Penzance maybe? Suggested the small micro buffet coaches as seat loss minimal, likely that trolley would be better (if there is a plan to use one?) as same sets won't stick to one route all the time.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Was only a suggestion - went on the 57 hauled set last year, buffet was open and doing quite a decent trade. Agree that Cardiff - Taunton not worthwhile but Exeter - Penzance maybe? Suggested the small micro buffet coaches as seat loss minimal, likely that trolley would be better (if there is a plan to use one?) as same sets won't stick to one route all the time.

I think I recall sometime ago that someone in the know mentioned that GWR do indeed plan to provide a trolley catering service on these trains, perhaps not happening until all the sets are fully operational?

 

[deltic08]

I did say perhaps there was a trolley, if so that's all you had to point out.

I would hardly call Cardiff-Penzance a local train. It is 3 hour journey.

 

[nat67]

Why?

You can couple a loco-hauled Mark 3 to a production power car without any problem: retract the buffers on the Mk 3, buckeye up, couple. It's no different from coupling 41001 (which has a LHCS type drop-head buckeye at the gangway end) to a production HST power car or HST set, which has been done on more than one occasion.

Thanks Chief I wasn't really sure if that's what happened if there was some sort of interference.

 

[nat67]

Was only a suggestion - went on the 57 hauled set last year, buffet was open and doing quite a decent trade. Agree that Cardiff - Taunton not worthwhile but Exeter - Penzance maybe? Suggested the small micro buffet coaches as seat loss minimal, likely that trolley would be better (if there is a plan to use one?) as same sets won't stick to one route all the time.

What they would need is the 401xx type micro buffet as that would do just the ticket.

 

[pdeaves]

Why?

You can couple a loco-hauled Mark 3 to a production power car without any problem: retract the buffers on the Mk 3, buckeye up, couple. It's no different from coupling 41001 (which has a LHCS type drop-head buckeye at the gangway end) to a production HST power car or HST set, which has been done on more than one occasion.

But isn't the wiring different on HST compared to loco-hauled Mk3 (3 phase and single phase respectively)? Physical coupling would work but auxiliaries would not.

 

[NoOnesFool]

Could they fit them in 442s? Just thought I’d go straight to the ridiculous idea...

Sandwich them in between class 142s and put a loco on the front... job's a good un

 

[Master29]

That would be ridiculous - if a trolley is good enough for the long distance trains, you don't need a buffet hatch on a 2+4 local train.

I know the Cardiff Penzance Castle sets are classed as local but I would hardly call it a local trip. It`s faster Penzance to Paddington.

 

[Richard Scott]

What they would need is the 401xx type micro buffet as that would do just the ticket.

That was the point I was trying to make initially!!

 

[nat67]

That was the point I was trying to make initially!!

Well they have the option as most are now being stored.

 

[43096]

But isn't the wiring different on HST compared to loco-hauled Mk3 (3 phase and single phase respectively)? Physical coupling would work but auxiliaries would not.

Correct with train supply, but you can use an ordinary ETH-fitted loco (or 41001) to provide supply for the LHCS Mark 3s. There are far more issues with HST trailers in preservation than the LHCS variety.