GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[HamworthyGoods]

We’ve just ended the painful daily swapping of Turbos between East and West; and the raft of behind the scenes issues it caused - it really, really doesn’t need to come back. The three Reading Turbos at Oxford are plenty good enough for the time being, they can be fuelled at Banbury; which should keep them going for a long while.

It’ll be interesting to see how the summer timetable pans out with East Turbos in the West as the Reading Turbo going to Weymouth and landing up at Westbury on a Saturday night runs again.

 

[class ep-09]

Banbury is a full light maintenance depot up to A Exam level on 16x fleets; with pit and stores.

Whilst we haven’t yet sent, or agreed to send one to Banbury for an exam, it is an option being discussed; amongst other similarly more local maintenance facilities than a grand tour of the GWR network. Even a return to Reading via High Wycombe and Greenford would be shorter than Worcester and back to SPM.

Fair enough.

 

[Snow1964]

GWR are clearly struggling from South Coast today, and putting passenger comfort last on a popular leisure day

07:21 Portsmouth - Cardiff just a 2car 165 to Bristol
08:23 Southampton-Great Malvern (4+ hour journey) 2car 165
08:50 Weymouth - Gloucester 2car 165 with unit swap at Bristol

 

[REVUpminster]

165101 and 165102 operating Paignton today. Paignton been busy this week. Surprised how many people got off the 1744 ex Paddington. The steam train seems busy as well.

 

[nw1]

GWR are clearly struggling from South Coast today, and putting passenger comfort last on a popular leisure day

07:21 Portsmouth - Cardiff just a 2car 165 to Bristol
08:23 Southampton-Great Malvern (4+ hour journey) 2car 165
08:50 Weymouth - Gloucester 2car 165 with unit swap at Bristol

I suppose to be fair if that 08.23 is the same service as the equivalent of the late 90s (when it was 150 operated), it is a most-stations stopping service, essentially a Southampton-Bristol stopper which extends to Great Malvern for operational convenience. I would somewhat doubt people would do the whole journey, though admittedly with the closure south of Oxford you might get more people going that way today compared to normal!

However the Portsmouth-Cardiff is clearly not running an appropriate-length train for the journey!

 

[Benjwri]

07:21 Portsmouth - Cardiff just a 2car 165 to Bristol

This was a short form and a service which forms from a Fratton ECS. Presumably a unit failed, and they reformed it as soon as they possibly could at Bristol.

08:23 Southampton-Great Malvern (4+ hour journey) 2car 165

This service goes Westbury -> Swindon -> Southampton, even if they could it wouldn’t be able to be strengthened before the mentioned service, but it actually isn’t a short form and there just isn’t the strength in the fleet to lengthen the service.

08:50 Weymouth - Gloucester 2car 165 with unit swap at Bristol

Again not a short form, the booked length.

The only short form is the first service you mentioned, which was rectified as soon as possible. When a unit fails at somewhere like Fratton they don’t have spares to replace it there and then.

The rest are not short forms and with the current size of the fleet they can’t be lengthened without short forming an equally important service or cancelling something.

 

[Snow1964]

The rest are not short forms and with the current size of the fleet they can’t be lengthened without short forming an equally important service or cancelling something.

I think the fact that a service to Gloucester needed to be switched at Bristol from a 165 to a 158, so they involved two units for one working is odd.

But the fact that swap happened whilst passengers were on it, rather than wait until empty rather suggests they are overstretching themselves even if it inconveniences passengers.

But I didn't explain myself well, it was the number of 2car units operating singly on very long services, rather than 3car units that I thought was odd.

Doesn't bode well for a fleet they have to maintain until 2028, and which needs to operate the expanded Metrowest service from next month that GWR are unable to find enough serviceable units to operate current timetable.

 

[windnoise69]

It’ll be interesting to see how the summer timetable pans out with East Turbos in the West as the Reading Turbo going to Weymouth and landing up at Westbury on a Saturday night runs again.

Looks like it goes back on a Sunday as 5A90 2314 Swindon - Reading

 

[Benjwri]

I think the fact that a service to Gloucester needed to be switched at Bristol from a 165 to a 158, so they involved two units for one working is odd.

But the fact that swap happened whilst passengers were on it, rather than wait until empty rather suggests they are overstretching themselves even if it inconveniences passengers.

The 158 it was swapped with came off 2K26 (Weston Super Mare to Severn Beach), which the 165 swapped on to. Are 158s cleared to Severn Beach, if not this might explain, as swapping meant both services could run.

As for swapping at Bristol, this is just a side effect of where the depot is. A lot of diagrams are only empty at places like Gloucester, Southampton and Weymouth. It doesn’t make sense to send a unit empty on a 2 hour trek when you can swap it at Bristol for minor inconvenience of a same platform change.

But I didn't explain myself well, it was the number of 2car units operating singly on very long services, rather than 3car units that I thought was odd.

The fleet is too stretched to strengthen diagrams. That they ran at booked length if nearly an achievement at the moment. To run them as 3 cars they would’ve had to short form another service, which they will earn a performance penalty from.

Doesn't bode well for a fleet they have to maintain until 2028, and which needs to operate the expanded Metrowest service from next month that GWR are unable to find enough serviceable units to operate current timetable.

I agree this is worrying, although today they are almost together, with I believe only one short formed diagram on Cardiff to Portsmouth. As for MetroWest this is being achieved by splitting some 3 car 158s into 2 cars, and replacing a diagram with an IET. Overall they should have about the same amount of difficulty as now, which isn’t great but not a disaster.

 

[RPI]

Exmouth to Paignton was heaving today, one two car 150 out but everything else formed. 11:57 from Exmouth was a 4 car 150 and people standing after Topsham.

 

[Anonymous10]

Exmouth to Paignton was heaving today, one two car 150 out but everything else formed. 11:57 from Exmouth was a 4 car 150 and people standing after Topsham.

Almost has me dreading going to Cornwall and Devon this summer. I must say gwr are easily my least favourite regional operator and I don't particularly like the turbos when on a long distance journey.

 

[Snow1964]

11:57 from Exmouth was a 4 car 150 and people standing after Topsham.

Just highlights the mismatch between capacity and fare income.

Have sold 300+ tickets to fill a 4car unit, but only scheduled a 4car unit.

But it's GWR, closed Reading-Basingstoke so have spare units, and realise it's a sunny bank holiday weekend, but won't use the spare units on coastal services, because it would involve some extra ECS moves.

 

[JonathanH]

But it's GWR, closed Reading-Basingstoke so have spare units, and realise it's a sunny bank holiday weekend, but won't use the spare units on coastal services, because it would involve some extra ECS moves.

Even British Rail wouldn't have noted they had spare units in Reading at the weekend and sent them to Exeter because it was sunny. It might have had some spare stock at Exeter but expecting redistribution of rolling stock is a bit much.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Even British Rail wouldn't have noted they had spare units in Reading at the weekend and sent them to Exeter because it was sunny. It might have had some spare stock at Exeter but expecting redistribution of rolling stock is a bit much.

BR historically ran the Devon local services on a shoe string.

 

[pompeyfan]

Just highlights the mismatch between capacity and fare income.

Have sold 300+ tickets to fill a 4car unit, but only scheduled a 4car unit.

But it's GWR, closed Reading-Basingstoke so have spare units, and realise it's a sunny bank holiday weekend, but won't use the spare units on coastal services, because it would involve some extra ECS moves.

Whilst you’re at it, Salisbury could have lent them some 159s too…

 

[Kite159]

GWR are clearly struggling from South Coast today, and putting passenger comfort last on a popular leisure day

07:21 Portsmouth - Cardiff just a 2car 165 to Bristol
08:23 Southampton-Great Malvern (4+ hour journey) 2car 165
08:50 Weymouth - Gloucester 2car 165 with unit swap at Bristol

That 07:21 from Portsmouth certainly would have been cosy after Trowbridge where I bailed from it with a large crowd waiting. Sounded like the guard was hoping for it to run into another unit at Westbury. Although not as bad as the 1242 Great Malvern to Weymouth (165137), that lost a good 4 minutes at Avoncliff with passengers trying to exit & board via the local door, lots of families & suitcases on board.

Are 158s cleared to Severn Beach, if not this might explain, as swapping meant both services could run

Unless things have changed they should be cleared to Severn Beach, I've certainly had a 3 coach 158 there in the past. Not ideal due to the end doors (which are slow to open compared to a Turbo)

 

[Parallel]

That 07:21 from Portsmouth certainly would have been cosy after Trowbridge where I bailed from it with a large crowd waiting. Sounded like the guard was hoping for it to run into another unit at Westbury. Although not as bad as the 1242 Great Malvern to Weymouth (165137), that lost a good 4 minutes at Avoncliff with passengers trying to exit & board via the local door, lots of families & suitcases on board.

I did see the 08:50 Weymouth to Gloucester (2 coaches as booked) had to omit Avoncliff due to overcrowding, I assume the guard couldn’t make it into the carriage at the front set of doors.

Though Easter is always busy and whilst GWR only had finite stock, I am a bit concerned for the Weymouth route come summer. Last year it seemed busier than ever - when I used it, it was a 4 car 158 that was full and standing from Frome (towards Weymouth)! I believe 4 cars are the maximum for 16x on the route, though they did used to run 5 car 150/153 formations a few years ago.

 

[pompeyfan]

It’s a shame that the SDO line / system used on SWRs 158/159 wasn’t retrofitted to all sprinters. It was retrofitted to the TPE units before they moved south. If SDO was in operation for operators like GWR it would help significantly.

 

[ValleyLines142]

This service goes Westbury -> Swindon -> Southampton, even if they could it wouldn’t be able to be strengthened before the mentioned service, but it actually isn’t a short form and there just isn’t the strength in the fleet to lengthen the service.

This is via Bristol, not Swindon.

GWR are clearly struggling from South Coast today, and putting passenger comfort last on a popular leisure day

07:21 Portsmouth - Cardiff just a 2car 165 to Bristol
08:23 Southampton-Great Malvern (4+ hour journey) 2car 165
08:50 Weymouth - Gloucester 2car 165 with unit swap at Bristol

0823 Southampton to Great Malvern is booked a 2 car anyway.

0850 Weymouth to Gloucester also booked for a 2 car 158 and attaches at Gloucester onto another 158 for the return service (1242 to Frome). The other 158 is the morning Salisbury to Cheltenham via Westbury and Swindon service (2G81 0634 from Salisbury).

 

[RPI]

Just highlights the mismatch between capacity and fare income.

Have sold 300+ tickets to fill a 4car unit, but only scheduled a 4car unit.

But it's GWR, closed Reading-Basingstoke so have spare units, and realise it's a sunny bank holiday weekend, but won't use the spare units on coastal services, because it would involve some extra ECS moves.

Not sure if its just coincidence, but there were 2x3 car 165's on Devon Metro services, normally only one and that very rarely appears, so possibly they did send an extra unit from the East. There was a fatality the previous day between Lympstone and Exmouth involving a 166 so I'm not sure if that was still out of use.
There did only appear to be the one short form (I'm sure a 165 was covering a 4 car 150 turn, but 3 car turbo vice a 4 car 150 i don't class as a short form as capacity is very similar), one short form for a bank holiday is actually pretty good for the Devon Metro!

 

[RailWonderer]

This diagram is normally a 5 car 800 but GWR have some courage to run it as a 2 car 165 today on a very busy weekend.

Realtime Trains | 1059 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon | 08/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1059 departure from Cheltenham Spa to Swindon on 08/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Is there a shortage of IETs? I know some 387s have covered the shortfall but when Turbos are needed in the West using a 2 car to London doesn’t seem the best use of them.

 

[Dai Corner]

This diagram is normally a 5 car 800 but GWR have some courage to run it as a 2 car 165 today on a very busy weekend.

Realtime Trains | 1059 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon | 08/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1059 departure from Cheltenham Spa to Swindon on 08/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Is there a shortage of IETs? I know some 387s have covered the shortfall but when Turbos are needed in the West using a 2 car to London doesn’t seem the best use of them.

Allocation is only shown as far as Swindon. I suspect there will be a set swap there in favour of an 80x.

Edit: Journeycheck says it will be terminated at Swindon.

 

[penguin8967]

Allocation is only shown as far as Swindon. I suspect there will be a set swap there in favour of an 80x.

Service cancelled from Swindon ‘due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time’.

 

[The exile]

I think the fact that a service to Gloucester needed to be switched at Bristol from a 165 to a 158, so they involved two units for one working is odd.

But the fact that swap happened whilst passengers were on it, rather than wait until empty rather suggests they are overstretching themselves even if it inconveniences passengers.

Such set swaps are not uncommon at Temple Meads. Yes, they’re an inconvenience but less of one than coming to a grinding halt in the middle of nowhere as the set has run out of fuel, or being unable to couple two incompatible units. Ultimately, this is an area which has seen (and is due to continue seeing) a growth in service provision without an appropriate increase in stock provision - and we know whose fault that is!

 

[REVUpminster]

!65101, 165102, 166207 operating Devon Metro today. Earlier in week unusually 165136 158750, 158745, 158747; all 2car.

 

[Rich McLean]

It’s a touch over 120mi from Oxford to Bristol via Worcester - or ~10% of the units’ total fuel range; just for the one-way trip either before or after fuelling; so in total fuelling at Bristol 20% of every tank would be used purely for the journeys to and from Bristol. While it could probably be wrangled to make them both revenue earning journeys, it’s still a lot of miles just for some fuel; and would likely reintroduce cycling of Turbos between East and West of GWR and all the problems that came with that while it was going on. It is also traincrew resource instensive, and takes the best part of a whole day just for the round trip.

Chiltern have very kindly agreed to let us use somewhere much more local within a few limited restrictions. It can be done in 2.5 hours with just 1 driver and 1 fitter.

Major exams might be a different story, they can’t practically be done at Oxford or Banbury; but the preference for those would be to spend the extra miles to do them at Reading (via Worcester, Cheltenham and Swindon) to keep the fleets separate.

The cycling of units would be for exams and not for re-fuelling, which can be done at Banbury

 

[JN114]

The cycling of units would be for exams and not for re-fuelling, which can be done at Banbury

That’s what I was saying no?

 

[Jim]

This diagram is normally a 5 car 800 but GWR have some courage to run it as a 2 car 165 today on a very busy weekend.

Realtime Trains | 1059 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon | 08/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1059 departure from Cheltenham Spa to Swindon on 08/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Is there a shortage of IETs? I know some 387s have covered the shortfall but when Turbos are needed in the West using a 2 car to London doesn’t seem the best use of them.

The IET that was for this service was required to go to Worcester to swap out one of the units there, which was low on fuel due to the current issues between Oxford and Didcot.

Sadly, it was a 2 car 165 or train cancelled, so not courage, just desire to at least serve some people with some sort of service, same happened later in the day with the 1600ish x Cheltenham too I believe.

Crew to allow a raft of additional ECS moves for the fuel swaps on the North Cotswold sets (or indeed actual sets!) are somewhat limited unfortunately.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Apr 2023 ==

Not sure if its just coincidence, but there were 2x3 car 165's on Devon Metro services, normally only one and that very rarely appears, so possibly they did send an extra unit from the East. There was a fatality the previous day between Lympstone and Exmouth involving a 166 so I'm not sure if that was still out of use.
There did only appear to be the one short form (I'm sure a 165 was covering a 4 car 150 turn, but 3 car turbo vice a 4 car 150 i don't class as a short form as capacity is very similar), one short form for a bank holiday is actually pretty good for the Devon Metro!

Most the time I would say 165 3 cars and 166s are treated as the same fleet (was 101 + 102 down, both "West" ones. Yes there are issues with bike spaces on a 3 car 165, but essentially there is no real "ideal" place for these, but it's better than no extra units!

 

[banjo125]

The IET that was for this service was required to go to Worcester to swap out one of the units there, which was low on fuel due to the current issues between Oxford and Didcot.

Sadly, it was a 2 car 165 or train cancelled, so not courage, just desire to at least serve some people with some sort of service, same happened later in the day with the 1600ish x Cheltenham too I believe.

Crew to allow a raft of additional ECS moves for the fuel swaps on the North Cotswold sets (or indeed actual sets!) are somewhat limited unfortunately.

Whilst accepting the situation is not ideal at least something was provided over the Stroud Valley, far better than a full cancellation.

 

[Siemens Staines]

It looks like the first swap of 165s out-based at Oxford is taking place this afternoon, via Worcester and Kemble

165121 5R00 1315 Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Reading Traincare Depot

Realtime Trains | 5R00 1315 Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Reading Traincare Depot | 11/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 5R00 1315 departure from Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Reading Traincare Depot on 11/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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to be replaced by 1651xx 5Z01 1712 Reading Traincare Depot to Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs

Realtime Trains | 5Z01 1712 Reading Traincare Depot to Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs | 11/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z01 1712 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs on 11/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk