GWR Class 769 information. (Units no longer with GWR - Off Lease March 23)

[Greybeard33]

The 769s were a private project by Porterbrook, no?

The financial details are not in the public domain, but the initial 769 order for Northern provided the DfT with a "get out of jail" card after it postponed electrification projects that it had committed to in its franchise agreement with Arriva Rail North. By that time ARN had already entered into lease agreements with Porterbrook for 319s to work the services on those to-be-electrified lines.

It seems a reasonable assumption that the taxpayer funded much of Porterbrook's initial 769 development and conversion costs, thereby avoiding liability for reimbursing ARN's lease payments on the otherwise useless 319s over the rest of the franchise period.

 

[43096]

Fresh??? They're in an absolutely dire state already, even so soon after their TfW refresh.

Must be the locals trashing their trains, if they're like that already.

 

[Clarence Yard]

They were. But it's possible that there were minimum hire periods in the agreements between Porterbrook and the TOCs, so that Porterbrook would have been certain of recovering at least a proportion of the cost of conversion. Such agreements aren't uncommon in other industries, but of course are usually kept confidential. Whether they exist in the railway industry I don't know, and I doubt if anyone who does know would be willing to put anything in the public domain. If there was such an agreement with GWR, we (as taxpayers) might be paying for them for a while longer.

No, the lease period will be the lease period in the “franchise agreement” - there isn’t a minimum length agreement that sits outside of what you see on the DfT website.

 

[43096]

No, the lease period will be the lease period in the “franchise agreement” - there isn’t a minimum length agreement that sits outside of what you see on the DfT website.

That would need a Section 54 agreement, which DfT are not keen on. Ironically, by cutting the 769s and therefore putting major risk into the investment in them, the ROSCOs may well become more risk averse - meaning any future such projects would only be carried out on the basis of long leases.

 

[DelW]

No, the lease period will be the lease period in the “franchise agreement” - there isn’t a minimum length agreement that sits outside of what you see on the DfT website.

Thanks for the confirmation, at least taxpayers are spared further expense then even if Porterbrook are probably not too happy. I suppose it was a calculated risk for them, some you win and some you lose.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Must be the locals trashing their trains, if they're like that already.

I hardly think the locals are responsible for the yellowing of the white livery, consistently broken automatic toilet door, faulty PIS, and overflowing bins that aren’t changed, but assume what you will.

 

[D365]

Is that not down to the fact that France, like many countries throughout Europe have their OHLE line at a higher height than Network Rail do here in the UK? Having the OHLE line at a higher height, gives the European countries the ability to be having less pillars holding the line up.

Forgive me for not being a structural engineer, as I am very confused by this entire post.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Must be the locals trashing their trains, if they're like that already.

I was expecting the ex Arriva 150/2s to have had some pretty major interior and exterior work done in the period 2019-2022 and all have now been refurbished apart from the Craven Arms victim. I they are not being kept clean and tidy it is the passengers who bring in the grime.

Do TfW have any kind of carriage cleaning regime ?

 

[foggy69]

I am quite surprised to see 769930 currently sitting in platform 1 at Redhill. The unsurprising thing is that it appears to have failed.

 

[TurboMan]

I am quite surprised to see 769930 currently sitting in platform 1 at Redhill. The unsurprising thing is that it appears to have failed.

It's on an ASDO test run, but has spent too long in cold, damp sidings recently so has been a bit temperamental when it comes to releasing the brakes from one cab.

 

[WizCastro197]

I am quite surprised to see 769930 currently sitting in platform 1 at Redhill. The unsurprising thing is that it appears to have failed.

Still there?

 

[TurboMan]

Still there?

Left Redhill about 75 late, got back to Reading at about 1345.

 

[cactustwirly]

I hardly think the locals are responsible for the yellowing of the white livery, consistently broken automatic toilet door, faulty PIS, and overflowing bins that aren’t changed, but assume what you will.

Tbf they serve some areas with very challenging clientele so I imagine the passengers do contribute to the issues.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Tbf they serve some areas with very challenging clientele so I imagine the passengers do contribute to the issues.

That they do; the 231 has been introduced on services through Bargoed so we’ll potentially soon see them rather run down

 

[BN 91119]

Judging by how the test run to Redhill on the 26th ran, is it likely the 8 car set will run on the 7th? I hope it does as while they aren't doing well, I really want to see one in service before they go for storage. I am assuming this is a final chance?

 

[JonathanH]

I really want to see one in service before they go for storage

It won't be 'in service' whatever happens. It has been indicated to be the last time one will run on the North Downs Line, but at some point they will need to move from Reading / Oxford to Long Marston as well.

 

[WizCastro197]

Judging by how the test run to Redhill on the 26th ran, is it likely the 8 car set will run on the 7th? I hope it does as while they aren't doing well, I really want to see one in service before they go for storage. I am assuming this is a final chance?

Are you willing to come all the way from St Ives to………. err….Redhill?

I think the Oxford to L.Marston move may be interesting, but I guess that won’t be in the next week or so?

 

[FGW_DID]

Judging by how the test run to Redhill on the 26th ran, is it likely the 8 car set will run on the 7th? I hope it does as while they aren't doing well, I really want to see one in service before they go for storage. I am assuming this is a final chance?

Yes, ASDO testing is pencilled in for the 6th (depot only) & 7th (run to Redhill). 769935 & 769959 are the proposed units.

 

[BN 91119]

Are you willing to come all the way from St Ives to………. err….Redhill?

I think the Oxford to L.Marston move may be interesting, but I guess that won’t be in the next week or so?

Not Cornwall St Ives....... Cambs St Ives!

Redhill is the easiest place for me to get to regarding travel so it would be nice to see them there.

 

[WizCastro197]

Not Cornwall St Ives....... Cambs St Ives!

Redhill is the easiest place for me to get to regarding travel so it would be nice to see them there.

Ah that’s makes sense, I wouldn’t want you to travel all the way from Cornwall to this place, you’d be in for a nasty shock. Glad that isn’t the case.

 

[jackot]

Ah that’s makes sense, I wouldn’t want you to travel all the way from Cornwall to this place, you’d be in for a nasty shock. Glad that isn’t the case.

I was thinking the same. Even more so given the probability the move will just be outright cancelled or it will just break down along the way.

 

[Deepgreen]

I noticed this while my train was standing at Reigate the other day. I wonder how long it will be left there - probably for decades.

 

[WizCastro197]

I noticed this while my train was standing at Reigate the other day. I wonder how long it will be left there - probably for decades.View attachment 128236

There was discussion of this a few pages back. I suppose if it isn’t harming anyone, no need to remove it?

 

[Deepgreen]

If the GWR 769s are then to be placed into storage, how difficult would it be to convert them back to dual-voltage traction, as to their 319 status?

Well, given that one unit apparently failed the other day because it stood in a 'damp' siding, I wouldn't expect them to last long at Long Marston!!

There was discussion of this a few pages back. I suppose if it isn’t harming anyone, no need to remove it?

It's just part of the inexorable clutter of signage that creates ever more possible distractions for drivers. Perhaps they could use the base plate to make a 2/3 car stopping board for Redhill's p0!

 

[43096]

I noticed this while my train was standing at Reigate the other day. I wonder how long it will be left there - probably for decades.

I'm amazed they've used the word "Diesel" rather than "Self powered" or some other DfT-approved twaddle.

There was discussion of this a few pages back. I suppose if it isn’t harming anyone, no need to remove it?

Superfluous information is not a good idea in a safety critical environment.

 

[zwk500]

I'm amazed they've used the word "Diesel" rather than "Self powered" or some other DfT-approved twaddle.

The DfT don't get involved in the Signs.

Superfluous information is not a good idea in a safety critical environment.

It's technically not surperfuous, as 769s Are running over that stretch for the ASDO testing, as posted upthread. Whether it will be taken down once that is complete is another question.

 

[Deepgreen]

The DfT don't get involved in the Signs.

It's technically not surperfuous, as 769s Are running over that stretch for the ASDO testing, as posted upthread. Whether it will be taken down once that is complete is another question.

That was the (semi-)question I raised.

 

[zwk500]

That was the (semi-)question I raised.

It'll probably stay there while route clearance is in place. I'm slightly surprised they bothered to put a class-specific label on that sign rather than just 'Bi-Mode' or just putting up a 'Electric Traction not allowed past the platform' board or r something.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Cycling past Oxford Up carriage sidings today I noted that at least two of the stored units have been heavily graffitied.

 

[penguin8967]

I'm slightly surprised they bothered to put a class-specific label on that sign rather than just 'Bi-Mode' or just putting up a 'Electric Traction not allowed past the platform' board or r something.

I would assume there's one of the red signs (such as below) there as well - that sign is probably a reminder to the driver and is the same as all the 80x 'power changeover' signs dotted around the network.