GWR Class 800

[class387]

She’s welsh - and it infuriates me every time I hear her say “Lenndon Pahdingten” instead of London Paddington.
She also sounds physically angry when giving the door closing warning - I do prefer sickly Faye.

Um after reading a report from Friday that 800s are temporarily withdrawn due to issues on the news are they going to be ok for Monday???!!! I’m travelling on one for the first time then!!!!

They just didn't run of Thursday. Back running on Friday.

 

[Olaf]

Why? Perhaps the 'nudge, nudge, there must be something wrong' nature of your posts when you haven't actually produced a single link to anything to justify that in relation to Class 800s.

This is an on-going story developing in Japan and elsewhere, others may be interested in those developments, especially if product in the UK is affected.

I understand that this might impact individuals in the UK Rail industry, but they have based their response on the information available at the time so are not culpable, unless of course they indulge in attempts to deflect attention.

Oh, and the laughable claim that Hitachi would not have informed the UK rail safety authority of what it knew about the situation and any potential implications for its new trains, just at the end stage of the process of signing off those trains for passenger service.

I made no such claim, that is your own interpretation and twist on the topic.

How would they know? Until the full extent of the problem is known then can only go what has been made public by Kobe and the other businesses now involved.

This thread is about 800s ...

That is why it is posted here.

 

[dk1]

First GWR off-lease tram arrived at Potters Ely for safe storage this afternoon. Not as yet in the secure area & dumped in the yard.

 

[387star]

PS: sitting in the composite at 125mph (ie above the engine) and there’s no excessive noise or vibration, though it did sound briefly like a modern DMU when starting to move. It’s nothing like being on a 22x, anyway.

yet on another thread a guy is moaning about declining comfort

sounds OK to me

 

[absolutelymilk]

First GWR off-lease tram arrived at Potters Ely for safe storage this afternoon. Not as yet in the secure area & dumped in the yard.

Excellent, just the single one?

 

[dk1]

Excellent, just the single one?

Yep, just the one to start with. In darkness though.

 

[JN114]

This is an on-going story developing in Japan and elsewhere, others may be interested in those developments, especially if product in the UK is affected.

I understand that this might impact individuals in the UK Rail industry, but they have based their response on the information available at the time so are not culpable, unless of course they indulge in attempts to deflect attention.

But thats the point; there is nothing - nothing - to suggest UK products are affected whatsoever. The wheelsets on AT300s are prpduced in the UK; and do not use Kobe Steel.

I made no such claim, that is your own interpretation and twist on the topic.

How would they know? Until the full extent of the problem is known then can only go what has been made public by Kobe and the other businesses now involved.

Train manufacturers have obligations to inform the regulator if they become aware of issues that might affect trains so severely. Hitachi aren’t hiding anything as there is nothing to hide.

Yes; it is a big thing in Japan. It is not relevant to 800s.

 

[jimm]

This is an on-going story developing in Japan and elsewhere, others may be interested in those developments, especially if product in the UK is affected.

If being the operative word, but you produced nothing new to suggest said product is affected - just something about trains in Japan - and none of that was suggestive of some catastrophic fault, unless that's now you interpret companies saying the affected components will be replaced during regular maintenance.

I understand that this might impact individuals in the UK Rail industry, but they have based their response on the information available at the time so are not culpable, unless of course they indulge in attempts to deflect attention.

Eh?

I made no such claim, that is your own interpretation and twist on the topic.

Really? I posted the following:

I'm sure the ORR will have been alerted by Hitachi to any potential issues.

Your response was:

Unlikely, because this is a developing story - the range of customers affected was still growing and the investigation is not yet complete.

How else is anyone supposed to interpret a response beginning with the word 'unlikely', other than you are suggesting that Hitachi wouldn't have been in contact with the ORR?

Which I am suggesting is extremely unlikely, not least when the Kobe Steel issues came to light just as the ORR was completing the process of authorising Class 800s for passenger service. It would be pretty irresponsible of Hitachi not to say something the moment the potential issue came to light - whether or not much detail was known that stage, or the situation was still 'developing'. And not likely to put Hitachi in a good light with the ORR for the future if it had to find out via the media.

How would they know? Until the full extent of the problem is known then can only go what has been made public by Kobe and the other businesses now involved.

They might actually have a bit more information than you seem to think - or than it is possible to convey in the context of a few hundred words in a news report. The fact that Hitachi and JR seem to know which Shinkansen components are affected and will need to be replaced - and that Hitachi was able to say that the 800s had used material from Kobe Steel but had passed rigorous tests - suggests that plenty of fairly detailed information has come out of Kobe Steel about what has been going on and has been passed to companies which, as a matter of course, are required by law to tell safety authorities about anything relevant to, er, safe operations, in whatever industry.

That is why it is posted here.

Nothing in that Straits Times story was about the Class 800s, so why did you post it here?

 

[bnm]

If being the operative word, but you produced nothing new to suggest said product is affected - just something about trains in Japan - and none of that was suggestive of some catastrophic fault, unless that's now you interpret companies saying the affected components will be replaced during regular maintenance.



Eh?



Really? I posted the following:



Your response was:



How else is anyone supposed to interpret a response beginning with the word 'unlikely', other than you are suggesting that Hitachi wouldn't have been in contact with the ORR?

Which I am suggesting is extremely unlikely, not least when the Kobe Steel issues came to light just as the ORR was completing the process of authorising Class 800s for passenger service. It would be pretty irresponsible of Hitachi not to say something the moment the potential issue came to light - whether or not much detail was known that stage, or the situation was still 'developing'. And not likely to put Hitachi in a good light with the ORR for the future if it had to find out via the media.



They might actually have a bit more information than you seem to think - or than it is possible to convey in the context of a few hundred words in a news report. The fact that Hitachi and JR seem to know which Shinkansen components are affected and will need to be replaced - and that Hitachi was able to say that the 800s had used material from Kobe Steel but had passed rigorous tests - suggests that plenty of fairly detailed information has come out of Kobe Steel about what has been going on and has been passed to companies which, as a matter of course, are required by law to tell safety authorities about anything relevant to, er, safe operations, in whatever industry.



Nothing in that Straits Times story was about the Class 800s, so why did you post it here?

The forging, casting and machining of the Class 80x wheelsets is an entirely European affair.

 

[Bayum]

Has anyone found a video that has an onboard departure of the train on AC and diesel? I’ve found one of a train leaving Port Talbot on diesel, but I’m yet to find one of them departing on the former. I possibly have, just didn’t hear much, which is good I suppose!

 

[bnsf734]

No video, but I have seen a test train leave Paddington with 1 set on AC with the pantograph up and the other set on diesel. Thats is the only train I have seen using AC, all the others have been on diesel. I have yet to experience a set on AC only as my journey so far was Cardiff - Swansea and back.

 

[Domh245]

The forging, casting and machining of the Class 80x wheelsets is an entirely European affair.

The hot working processes are done in Italy, but the final machining is done in Manchester, according to LUR Group's own brochure. They also proudly proclaim that the steel used to make these wheelsets comes from scrap, so there should be no concerns with regards to Kobe steel on that front.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Whoa! Ok, so I thought I’d hate anything replacing those gorgeous leather first class seats, but clearly i was wrong. Whoa those trains are flash. First class cushion is brilliant - really comfortable. Good recline too. Seats have great legroom but are horrendously hard.

Unlike Voyagers which even though I like them - I admit do seem cheap and tacky, the 800s are flash and super impressive. Ride very smooth too.

Staff ladled on refreshments too.

Very disappointed that I could only go as far as Reading.

See my Rail days post for the full day.

 

[Chris125]

Has anyone found a video that has an onboard departure of the train on AC and diesel? I’ve found one of a train leaving Port Talbot on diesel, but I’m yet to find one of them departing on the former. I possibly have, just didn’t hear much, which is good I suppose!

These both appear to have departures from Paddington on AC:

 

[WelshBluebird]

One more question that I don't think has been asked. Has anyone managed to get an idea / comparison with the HST's regarding mobile phone signal inside the new trains? Did mean to ask last week but forgot, and have been reminded by the thread about poor signal on Voyager trains!

 

[Dhassell]

One more question that I don't think has been asked. Has anyone managed to get an idea / comparison with the HST's regarding mobile phone signal inside the new trains? Did mean to ask last week but forgot, and have been reminded by the thread about poor signal on Voyager trains!

Mobile Coverage definitely better than on Voyagers. I could also pick up GPS to run a speedo on my phone.

 

[class387]

Had a ride on 800008+800009 on the 1145 from Paddington to Reading today. Generally impressed and much better than what I thought it would be (though my expectations weren't that high admittedly). Here are some observations:

• The seats were comfortable, firm but supportive and pitch in the airline seats was incredibly good, although they were far worse than the Grammar seats in the GWR HSTs which remain my favourite UK train seat. There is a good mix of table and airline seats most with decent window alignment, however in some coaches at the ends, including in First (where the door pocket is) there is a pair of seats with no window view whatsoever as well as no armrest - definitely one to avoid.
• I personally love the interior finishes throughout the train, with the light wood-effect and also the green, which looks much better in person than in a picture and no actually that bright or overpowering. The lighting is very nice and not intrusive at all.
• PIS is OK, though I find the voice annoying and am suprised they didn't fit a Class 700-type system
• The ride quality is worse than the HSTs. On acceleration the train seems a bit bouncy and at speed it seems to shake/vibrate a bit more than the HSTs especially on the wires (though that may be because of the higher speed).
• Something that I don't think has been mentioned yet - in the leading coach, again mostly on electric mode, there seems to be a loud ambient noise while running, possibly from the transformer or another part of the pantograph. It is quite annoying and almost feels like the sound when travelling on an aeroplane.

The changeover appeared to be smooth, but we lost speed and just after running through Maidenhead we came to a (emergency?) stop. The called the Hitachi engineers over and the guard made an announcement saying that there had been a 'technical issue'. They seem to have resolved the issue in about five minutes and the train then continued towards Reading, but for some time at reduced speed.

Another, perhaps more concerning thing, was that at Reading the doors unlocked on the wrong side. When the button was pressed a loud alarm would sound and I stayed clear of it. I do not know whether the door would open if I pressed it agin but it would be dangerous if it did.

 

[Nippy]

• Something that I don't think has been mentioned yet - in the leading coach, again mostly on electric mode, there seems to be a loud ambient noise while running, possibly from the transformer or another part of the pantograph. It is quite annoying and almost feels like the sound when travelling on an aeroplane.

I noticed the noise, I think it seemed to be wind noise from the pantograph.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I must say, I was absolutely shocked at how hard the seats were. I thought the 800s would be amazing and don’t get me wrong first class totally exceeded my expectations but when I had a quick sit in a standard seat I was horrified at the hardness, the thin padding, the car seat like material. Makes a Voyager seat seem plush.

 

[Minilad]

My first look at an IEP up close at Reading. And it’s failed! Train cancelled and everyone on to a HST

 

[Bornin1980s]

In the latest issue of Modern Railways, Ian Walmsley, who was on the disastrous first train, states that the air con failed because of a buildup of condensation. Apparently, an ordinary train can just drain it 'to a gutter,' but the IET requires a pump, which failed after a night on a hot depot.

I don't understand. Why do these trains need a working pump when older ones don't?

He also states that it is no bullet train, but an okay commuter train, nothing special. Now, this has me wondering, are all the real Shinkansen trains high quality expresses, furnished to a better standard than British trains, or are some of them essentially commuter trains?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many of them have 3+2 seating (in a wider body) and tiny windows by UK standards. I don't think if HS2 got them as they are in Japan they would be very popular on here.

The 800 is more a UK take on the Japanese narrow gauge EMUs much more like our own.

 

[broadgage]

In the latest issue of Modern Railways, Ian Walmsley, who was on the disastrous first train, states that the air con failed because of a buildup of condensation. Apparently, an ordinary train can just drain it 'to a gutter,' but the IET requires a pump, which failed after a night on a hot depot.

I don't understand. Why do these trains need a working pump when older ones don't?

He also states that it is no bullet train, but an okay commuter train, nothing special. Now, this has me wondering, are all the real Shinkansen trains high quality expresses, furnished to a better standard than British trains, or are some of them essentially commuter trains?

It would depend on the layout of the equipment. I would expect the condensation to drip into a drip pan or tray provided for the purpose, ideally it should then flow away by gravity, that requires a continual fall in the drain pipe. The design of the train might mean that no continually falling route for the pipe is available, in which case a condensate removal pump is needed.
IME condensate pumps are a regular source of problems and should wherever possible be designed out. Whilst my experience is of office air conditioning, not train mounted equipment, the principles are the same, a condensate pump is something else to go wrong and should be avoided when possible. In cold dry weather such pumps lie unused and are then apt to fail when called on.

 

[class387]

He also states that it is no bullet train, but an okay commuter train, nothing special. Now, this has me wondering, are all the real Shinkansen trains high quality expresses, furnished to a better standard than British trains, or are some of them essentially commuter trains?

Shinkansens seem quite basic by UK standards: (N700, newest Shinkansen on the Tokyo - Osaka line)

3+2 seating, all airline and small windows. Plenty of legroom though.

 

[J-2739]

Many of them have 3+2 seating (in a wider body) and tiny windows by UK standards. I don't think if HS2 got them as they are in Japan they would be very popular on here.

The 800 is more a UK take on the Japanese narrow gauge EMUs much more like our own.

I guess at least their windows are all aligned to a seat, unlike ours!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

He also states that it is no bullet train, but an okay commuter train, nothing special. Now, this has me wondering, are all the real Shinkansen trains high quality expresses, furnished to a better standard than British trains, or are some of them essentially commuter trains?

I believe the class 800 (AT300) has more in common with the Hitachi A-train, which is a commuter train, than the high-speed Shinkansen.

The same is also true of class 395.

125-140mph is not true "high speed", and the GWML/ECML are not Shinkansens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitachi_A-train

Moderator note: For Shinkansen discussion, please use this thread: Shinkansen trains discussion

 

[superkev]

All the stations visit to Hitachi at Newton Aycluffe on YouTube see

Where is everybody.
K

 

[Typhoon_93]

All the stations visit to Hitachi at Newton Aycluffe on YouTube see

Where is everybody.
K

They visited on a Sunday and the factory is Monday to Saturday

 

[800001]

All the stations visit to Hitachi at Newton Aycluffe on YouTube see

Where is everybody.
K

I would hazard a guess that this was filmed on a Sunday.

 

[superkev]

I would have thought with deliveries a bit behind Sunday would be a working day.
K