GWR Class 800

[coppercapped]

A few things jump out from the interior picture:

1. The seats appear to have reservation ticket slots. I would really expect a new intercity train to use electronic reservations.
2. I can't see any tables or reading lights anywhere. The closely-spaced single seats with no tables in particular don't look very "first class".
3. The overhead luggage rack on the RHS of the photo appears to terminate just before the camera, meaning that at lease the nearest pair of seats to the camera have no luggage rack.

All these things are rather disappointing for the first class carriages of a large fleet of new intercity trains, and by implication standard class will be even worse.

I attended a talk recently, run by the IMechE, given by the man responsible for getting all the approvals needed to allow the Class 800s to run.

There will be a 'traffic light' system to indicate individual seat reservations: Red will mean reserved now, Yellow will mean reserved for part of the journey and Green will mean not reserved. The system will be driven by data downloads to the train. I have no more detailed information than this.

 

[D365]

Dent seems to be under the impression that ticket slots and an electronic seat reservation system are mutually exclusive... Such slots are cheap to add whilst the seats are manufactured and provide an element of redundancy sorely missing on 'Voyager' trains.

 

[swt_passenger]

There will be a 'traffic light' system to indicate individual seat reservations: Red will mean reserved now, Yellow will mean reserved for part of the journey and Green will mean not reserved.

The concept (but not the detail) was one of many 'essential requirements' in the 2008 ITT train technical specification; explained as:

Displays for each seat shall indicate whether that seat is free, reserved for part of or for the remainder of the journey. The method of display shall be easy for passengers to interpret quickly when boarding, and shall seek to convey an overall impression of the extent of reserved and unreserved seats within the saloon.

Colour coding red, yellow and green was mentioned in descriptions very early on.

 

[ainsworth74]

Dent seems to be under the impression that ticket slots and an electronic seat reservation system are mutually exclusive... Such slots are cheap to add whilst the seats are manufactured and provide an element of redundancy sorely missing on 'Voyager' trains.

At the risk of bashing my head against the wall and risking severe harm to myself if people would reading the Train Technical Specification (or skim it) they would see that it is clearly been written with a view to avoiding a great many (if no all) of the major complaints passengers have with the Voyagers.

Hence they've specified an electronic reservation system but have also made sure that a back-up is included if it fails. Thus avoiding the farce of seat reservations being stuffed between the frame of the seat and the cushion as seen on Voyagers.

 

[The Ham]

At the risk of bashing my head against the wall and risking severe harm to myself if people would reading the Train Technical Specification (or skim it) they would see that it is clearly been written with a view to avoiding a great many (if no all) of the major complaints passengers have with the Voyagers.

Hence they've specified an electronic reservation system but have also made sure that a back-up is included if it fails. Thus avoiding the farce of seat reservations being stuffed between the frame of the seat and the cushion as seen on Voyagers.

IIRC the summary in the train technical specification simple states:

"If it's on, is fairly similar to anything on or makes up any part of a Voyager it can not form, be on or make up any part of the new trains."

 

[JaJaWa]

There are more pics on the Hitachi Twitter account if you click through - hasn't the Standard interior been out for a while?

 

[physics34]

There are more pics on the Hitachi Twitter account if you click through - hasn't the Standard interior been out for a while?

Shocking really! A continual downward spiral on comfort. I bet the leg is tight too

 

[Dent]

Do you mean the closely-spaced single seats just like those offered on GWR HSTs? Or East Coast HSTs for that matter.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/VFrrItABuRQ/maxresdefault.jpg

Your point being? Cramped conditions are crapped conditions irrespective of whether similarly cramped conditions also exist somewhere else.

And how do you expect to know what sort of tables there are at the single seats when you can't see the backs of the seats

Given how close the seats are, there is not room for much of a table. Also the picture clearly shows the absence of a table between the group of four seats on the right.

 

[Haydn1971]

The interiors look very classy, but I'm saddened by the lack of table seats

 

[Dave1987]

The interiors look very classy, but I'm saddened by the lack of table seats

It's headline figures though isn't it. The politicians want as many seats as possible so they can make their big announcements about X many extra seats. It's not about comfort any more, its purely about capacity. It's just the way its going now with all trains.

 

[ainsworth74]

Also the picture clearly shows the absence of a table between the group of four seats on the right.

Again the units haven't finished being fitted out. When the trains are actually finished and people have had a chance to see them, for themselves (rather than small pictures on the internet), perhaps it would be reasonable to talk in absolutes.

 

[asylumxl]

Again the units haven't finished being fitted out. When the trains are actually finished and people have had a chance to see them, for themselves (rather than small pictures on the internet), perhaps it would be reasonable to talk in absolutes.

I think your reply might fall on deaf ears. Many enthusiasts have already decided they are awful trains without any experience of them or evidence to substantiate their claims.

The interiors look fine to me. I reckon the majority of the travelling public will be pleased with them.

 

[class26]

I think your reply might fall on deaf ears. Many enthusiasts have already decided they are awful trains without any experience of them or evidence to substantiate their claims.

The interiors look fine to me. I reckon the majority of the travelling public will be pleased with them.

I remember when the HST`s were first being introduced and then it was the end of civilisation according to the enthusiasts of the day!

 

[Mikey C]

The standard class interior looks fine to me, very LONG as you'd expect with the 26m carriage, but a rather dull colour scheme
50 shades of grey...

 

[southern442]

Again the units haven't finished being fitted out. When the trains are actually finished and people have had a chance to see them, for themselves (rather than small pictures on the internet), perhaps it would be reasonable to talk in absolutes.

Does this mean that situations such as in those photos where standard class have tables but first class do not will be sorted out soon?

 

[ainsworth74]

Does this mean that situations such as in those photos where standard class have tables but first class do not will be sorted out soon?

Yeah when the train is finished!

 

[southern442]

Yeah when the train is finished!

That makes more sense. Perhaps those photos were taken a bit too early!

 

[D365]

I remember when the HST's were first being introduced and then it was the end of civilisation according to the enthusiasts of the day!

I've picked up a few railway magazines from the early 80s, in which remarks to that point were being made in every Letters section!

 

[RobShipway]

I've picked up a few railway magazines from the early 80s, in which remarks to that point were being made in every Letters section!

It is amazing how people get used to things, that they thought that they would hate.

Probably by 2020, we will be saying how great the class 800 trains are and not having a thought about the HST's.

 

[D365]

It is amazing how people get used to things, that they thought that they would hate.

As long as it's not a Pacer.

 

[ainsworth74]

As long as it's not a Pacer.

I don't know, I think I've got Stockholm Syndrome at this point when it comes to Pacers...

 

[D365]

I don't know, I think I've got Stockholm Syndrome at this point when it comes to Pacers...

Don't. I stepped off my first trip barely an hour ago.

 

[swt_passenger]

Shocking really! A continual downward spiral on comfort. I bet the leg is tight too

The side on pics suggest the legroom is better than a GW HST. As long as they provide the dimensions in the spec they must be better.

 

[sprinterguy]

It's headline figures though isn't it. The politicians want as many seats as possible so they can make their big announcements about X many extra seats. It's not about comfort any more, its purely about capacity. It's just the way its going now with all trains.

For the length of vehicle, the seating capacity is no greater than those much heralded paragons of comfort, the mark 2 and mark 3 coaches (post-eighties refurb for the latter):

20 metre mark 2 seats 64.
23 metre mark 3 seats 76.
26 metre AT-300 seats 88.

The maximum number of seats per vehicle is no greater than that proposed by BR for its' 26 metre mark 5 carriage in 1993, so if that's "just the way it's going now" then it has been doing so for over twenty years.

I can't answer why there are comparatively so few tables, but coupled with the above this should ensure decent legroom for those of us who prefer airline-style seats. I do agree that the large number of single airline seats in first class is disappointing, though, but this is something that has been evident since the draft layouts were published over three years ago.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Probably by 2020, we will be saying how great the class 800 trains are and not having a thought about the HST's.

I can't see it happening by 2020; the sets will still barely have been delivered (even the oldest trains having been in service for a little over two years as of 01/01/2020), so the wounds will still be raw for those pining over the loss of the sainted HSTs (which may include me in its' ranks, depending on how these new trains actually turn out as a travelling experience).

 

[jimm]

Your point being? Cramped conditions are crapped conditions irrespective of whether similarly cramped conditions also exist somewhere else.

Those single airline seats in GWR first class - and there's plenty of room for someone to stretch out their legs in my humble opinion - were the result of people asking for seats like that, in preference to two seats facing each other across a table, according to GWR. And similar single airline seats have been provided in sections of first class on Voyagers and Pendolinos ever since they entered service.

Given how close the seats are, there is not room for much of a table. Also the picture clearly shows the absence of a table between the group of four seats on the right.

Well somehow GWR has fitted in this much of a table on the HSTs http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OhoyMu4M2ck/VT6tggnd7rI/AAAAAAAAALM/c-hxJzKagUE/s1600/IMG_6428.JPG and as ainsworth74 keeps pointing out, that interior is only partially fitted out, hence the lack of a table for the bay of four seats... when pictures of a mock-up in the design studio showed a half-width table in a bay of four seats there were similar howls of anguish online, as though this was how the real thing would look.

Does this mean that situations such as in those photos where standard class have tables but first class do not will be sorted out soon?

The first few sets built were pre-series trains, intended to ensure that the design works when they actually put the trains together in the factories and for test running - such as the work on the ECML at night-time - and staff familiarisation - which is why there is a set at North Pole depot at the moment. As a result these sets have some coaches that are missing some or all of the interior fittings so there is room for test equipment to be carried on board, etc. They may also be being used to try out various seating configurations so people can see what they look like inside an actual train before the production run starts.

Subsequent sets in the main production build will come with full interiors fitted throughout - and once the test programme is over, the pre-series sets will presumably visit Newton Aycliffe to get full interiors themselves.

 

[fgwrich]

Having looked at those pictures (and roughly skimmed through the technical details), I see that still slightly annoyingly the Voyager style full window blinds have been implemented in standard class.

I will say one thing though - How depressing. Could the colour pallet been a little more brighter, than a long row of brown seats on brown carpet contrasting with a bright white ceiling. I'm hoping that this isn't the final operator spec, some colour would be welcomed!

 

[D365]

I'm hoping that this isn't the final operator spec, some colour would be welcomed!

:roll:

Once again, no it's not!

 

[swt_passenger]

Those single airline seats in GWR first class - and there's plenty of room for someone to stretch out their legs in my humble opinion - were the result of people asking for seats like that, in preference to two seats facing each other across a table, according to GWR. And similar single airline seats have been provided in sections of first class on Voyagers and Pendolinos ever since they entered service.

...and 444s. Probably the only recent EMU with something approaching a normal First Class section, but it adopts the same layout with a significant majority of airline seats.

 

[jimm]

...and 444s. Probably the only recent EMU with something approaching a normal First Class section, but it adopts the same layout with a significant majority of airline seats.

But the intention on IEP seems to be to have something similar to the current GWR HST first class layout, with bays of four seats with a table down one side of the coach and then mainly single airline style down the other, with the odd table for two thrown in, rather than having lots of pairs of airline-type seats like the 444s.

 

[Goldfish62]

...and 444s. Probably the only recent EMU with something approaching a normal First Class section, but it adopts the same layout with a significant majority of airline seats.

And Mk4s from new!