GWR confirmed as charging for tickets by post

[Cdd89]

Sorry if this is old news. I remember reading on this site that GWR launched a pilot in a small area, trialling the charging for tickets issued by post.

I just got an email from GWR confirming this will be rolled out nationwide from 29th October and the cost will be £1 for First Class.

As I live and work very close to a mainline station, I didn't really "need" this service - but it's a shame for those who live in more remote places and who will now have to choose between arriving earlier at the station, or paying an extra £1.

 

[Kite159]

Sorry if this is old news. I remember reading on this site that GWR launched a pilot in a small area, trialling the charging for tickets issued by post.

I just got an email from GWR confirming this will be rolled out nationwide from 29th October and the cost will be £1 for First Class.

As I live and work very close to a mainline station, I didn't really "need" this service - but it's a shame for those who live in more remote places and who will now have to choose between arriving earlier at the station, or paying an extra £1.

Or feeling forced into using mobile tickets.

I would predict by next year all the TOC websites will be charging for 1st class postage for the majority of users.

 

[superalbs]

Oh well, no more custom for them from me then. Shame as they were my go-to site for booking.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't see why there shouldn't be a fee for postal delivery - there is a direct cost associated to it over and above any other means of issue which *is* roughly £1 (about 70p for the stamp and 30p for an envelope plus about 2 minutes of time to stuff it).

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

There is also a cost to insert a booking into the ToD system, and a further cost for when a booking is then collected. So it's not as if postage is the only method of collection that incurs costs! However, with e-tickets [EDIT - yes, and m-tickets and self-print tickets] meaning much lower costs for the retailer - as they get charged only a fee for generating a ticket that's valid on the National Rail network - it's clear why many retailers push that method of fulfilment hard. After all, the slim margins involved in retailing are enough to cover these costs, but not a lot of profit is then left (especially if the retailer sells a lot of low-value tickets).

 

[Wallsendmag]

Why not use self print for Advance ?

 

[Wallsendmag]

There is also a cost to insert a booking into the ToD system, and a further cost for when a booking is then collected. So it's not as if postage is the only method of collection that incurs costs! However, with e-tickets meaning much lower costs for the retailer - as they get charged only a fee for generating a ticket that's valid on the National Rail network - it's clear why many retailers push that method of fulfilment hard. After all, the slim margins involved in retailing are enough to cover these costs, but not a lot of profit is then left (especially if the retailer sells a lot of low-value tickets).

Very few retailers are pushing e-Tickets, m-Tickets and Self Print are the most popular currently.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Very few retailers are pushing e-Tickets, m-Tickets and Self Print are the most popular currently.

Ok, I did mean to include those too!

 

[ChrisC]

Do some TOC’s still offer free delivery if your journey begins at an unstaffed station without a ticket machine. EMT certainly always used to offer this and I think they may still do so.

 

[Cdd89]

Interestingly, their email about it is quite defensive, pointing out that they’re not raising a profit from the charges and that other issuers charge more, and also that there won’t be a charge for stations which do not have ToD collection facilities.

But it is ultimately the removal of one of the only things that made GwR “special” for online issuing.

 

[ainsworth74]

There is also a cost to insert a booking into the ToD system, and a further cost for when a booking is then collected. So it's not as if postage is the only method of collection that incurs costs!

I've always assumed that TOCs have taken a somewhat pragmatic view in that, at least as far as the collection fee goes, it will all roughly balance out (TOC A has to pay TOC B for ticket collection at TOC Bs TVMs but then TOC C will end up paying TOC A for TOC As and so on and so on) hence it's not worth the potential PR drama of charging for TVM collections.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I've always assumed that TOCs have taken a somewhat pragmatic view in that, at least as far as the collection fee goes, it will all roughly balance out (TOC A has to pay TOC B for ticket collection at TOC Bs TVMs but then TOC C will end up paying TOC A for TOC As and so on and so on) hence it's not worth the potential PR drama of charging for TVM collections.

I guess you have the slight exceptions of operators who don't have any TVM's (or stations even) or their own. XC jump to mind but there may be others.
But yeah for the rest I made the same assumption.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I guess you have the slight exceptions of operators who don't have any TVM's (or stations even) or their own. XC jump to mind but there may be others.
But yeah for the rest I made the same assumption.

Which is why XC charge (in some cases) for TVM collection! If I remember correctly, they charge for XC only tickets, and not for any operator ones...or the other way round...or something like that anyway.

There is also the quite hefty Royal Mail charge for a collection, in addition to the stamp, envelope, etc

 

[tiptoptaff]

£1 is hardly the end of the world, is it....

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I've always assumed that TOCs have taken a somewhat pragmatic view in that, at least as far as the collection fee goes, it will all roughly balance out (TOC A has to pay TOC B for ticket collection at TOC Bs TVMs but then TOC C will end up paying TOC A for TOC As and so on and so on) hence it's not worth the potential PR drama of charging for TVM collections.

Well XC don't have any stations. So they don't get any revenue from it, and they charge for ToD for all (?) journeys that have e or m tickets available.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

£1 is hardly the end of the world, is it....

Not for everyone, but for some people that could be a very high percentage of their transaction value!

 

[tiptoptaff]

Not for everyone, but for some people that could be a very high percentage of their transaction value!

Conversely, if you've paid such little for a ticket then a quid isn't a lot to add on and doesn't sacrifice the good deal.

I just think it's being blown out of proportion. It's only a pound for 1st class postage. It's not like they're profiteering by charging silly amounts like some operators do.

 

[yorkie]

Not for everyone, but for some people that could be a very high percentage of their transaction value!

GWR will be making a significant loss on any such transactions!

 

[tiptoptaff]

So a first class franked letter costs 57p. An envelope costs approx 5p. This leaves 38p from the £1. On minimum wage it costs GWR 13p a minute for an admin person to work (and they're probably paid more than this!) so lets say it takes them 2minutes to sort each transaction, that totals 88p. Cost of headed paper with recipients' address on is approx 5p. Now 93p. So if no other costs are incurred, GWR are making an outrageous 7p profit by charging £1 for first class post.
How. Dare. They.

 

[yorkie]

There are also other fees as well, so it would be a loss on a low value fare.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

There are also other fees as well, so it would be a loss on a low value fare.

Which is why I like booking low-value walkup tickets (that I know I'll use, not ones that I might want to refund) through whichever TOC I currently hate most

 

[bb21]

So a first class franked letter costs 57p. An envelope costs approx 5p. This leaves 38p from the £1. On minimum wage it costs GWR 13p a minute for an admin person to work (and they're probably paid more than this!) so lets say it takes them 2minutes to sort each transaction, that totals 88p. Cost of headed paper with recipients' address on is approx 5p. Now 93p. So if no other costs are incurred, GWR are making an outrageous 7p profit by charging £1 for first class post.
How. Dare. They.

Employer's NI contributions, pensions contribution...

 

[tiptoptaff]

There are also other fees as well, so it would be a loss on a low value fare.

Aye, but the point I was making is that £1 for first class post isn't as ridiculous as some of the reactions to it in this thread!

 

[Deafdoggie]

Royal Mail charge to collect post too

 

[Bletchleyite]

Aye, but the point I was making is that £1 for first class post isn't as ridiculous as some of the reactions to it in this thread!

I think it's a fairly reasonable reflection of the direct costs, and may even be a loss leader. I think Ticketmaster usually charge £2-3 for posted gig tickets which is comparable so would suggest the railway is actually being quite generous.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Well XC don't have any stations. So they don't get any revenue from it, and they charge for ToD for all (?) journeys that have e or m tickets available.

I THINK, there has to be a way for a customer to get the actual price. So with a form of e-ticket (m-ticket, print at home, etc) they can. But if they choose a piece of orange card instead, then extra reasonable costs can be charged. But if it’s a cross-TOC journey and an e-ticket isn’t available then to get the actual price a TVM collection has to be free instead. But they still charge for postage.

There are also other fees as well, so it would be a loss on a low value fare.

When I booked the family on The Night Rivière they gave me free Special Delivery. So loosing on low value & effectively high value too, makes me think this isn’t about the profit for them!

 

[cjp]

Do many people really want their tickets posted to them?
The only ones I have ever had posted have been Sleeper ones.
That said it sounds like penny pinching or simple greed by GWR.
Perhaps their aim is to do a Tfl and close all ticket offices and have ticket machines. Perhaps with permits to travel and let guards take the strain in return for the commission ??.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Do many people really want their tickets posted to them?
The only ones I have ever had posted have been Sleeper ones.
That said it sounds like penny pinching or simple greed by GWR.
Perhaps their aim is to do a Tfl and close all ticket offices and have ticket machines. Perhaps with permits to travel and let guards take the strain in return for the commission ??.

Basically it is a cost to the business, why should they not get the money for it? As you say, few people have them posted these days, so why not make them pay, rather than everyone subsidising it? At £1 they really aren't making a profit on it, but it may put off some people and make them collect them at TVM and thus save the company money

 

[cjp]

Basically it is a cost to the business, why should they not get the money for it? As you say, few people have them posted these days, so why not make them pay, rather than everyone subsidising it? At £1 they really aren't making a profit on it, but it may put off some people and make them collect them at TVM and thus save the company money

That is a bean counters response.
The company makes money by selling a product (tickets to travel for example) . Those products have to be delivered or collect. What is the most effective or cost effective means of delivery? Ticket offices, TOD,or by post. Whatever it is should be factored into the cost. The alternative is to not factor it and charge everyone for a transaction eg ticket office add £0.50 post £1.00 TOD £1.20 .
GWR have just gone for the low hanging fruit with no real thought about things.

Remind me again what happens if one chooses TOD and on the day of travel the machine is broken or breaks and there is no ticket office so you have no ticket to travel.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Post tickets have to be ordered at least a week before travel-most tickets aren't. It is the least popular option, and is the most expensive option to administer. Personally, I do not believe that everyone should subsidise the few in this case. It costs the most to post, let them pay a contribution towards it. Don't want to pay it? Don't order that option.

Remind me again, what happens if the tickets are lost in the post? There are pitfalls to all methods.