GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

[jimm]

I hope that they publish the proposed December timetable well in advance so perhaps we can comment on it and then they might wish to tweak it further if any of the comments appear to be sensible. (Remember ‘Operation Princess’ - when Virgin brought in the Voyagers)!

User groups are being asked to comment - in confidence.

Please spare us spurious references to Operation Princess. Nothing GWR is going to do remotely resembles what happened on CrossCountry in 2002.

The basic pattern of future GW express services has been a matter of public record since 2015 and it's clear what is planned hardly represents radical change from what is currently operating, it simply builds on what already runs.

See slide 8 and slide 12 of this GWR presentation from 2015.

http://travelwatchsouthwest.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Travelwatch-Presentation-October-2015.pdf

 

[jimm]

Are there any more diversions to come up in the next few months? I'm thinking about Bristol to Reading via Newbury, Cardiff to Bridgend via Barry town or Severn Tunnel junction to Gloucester, anybody heard owt like that coming up

Try the GWR website's planned engineering work page.

https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/planned-engineering

 

[FGW_DID]

Thanks a lot. I'll give them a call and see if it's updated on their system for 11th - 15th.

How about these three in the other direction? Are some of them HST for that week too?
1A85 1000 Penzance to London Paddington
1A87 1255 Plymouth to London Paddington
1A97 1600 Penzance to London Paddington

1A85 = HST
1A87 = HST
1A97 = 802 (2x5)

 

[jeyer]

1A85 = HST
1A87 = HST
1A97 = 802 (2x5)

Thanks again. According to the people I spoke with at both assistance booking and customer support at GWR, their systems still show all of them as HST for 12 March and a few other days around then, so I don't think I can officially book the wheelchair accessible space for Pullman Dining. Maybe I'll just have to wait until the schedule is more settled or they update their systems. Or maybe just show up on the day and see what happens.

 

[irish_rail]

User groups are being asked to comment - in confidence.

Please spare us spurious references to Operation Princess. Nothing GWR is going to do remotely resembles what happened on CrossCountry in 2002.

Maybe not in your neck of the woods jimm but I'd say what will be happening in Cornwall with service frequency doubled but with smaller trains, sounds awfuly princess esq to me....... even with the new signals that have been put in down there I think there is a real risk the brown stuff will hit the fan all too frequently when there are problems and delays etc etc.

 

[31160]

Try the GWR website's planned engineering work page.

https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/planned-engineering

Excellent thanks for that

 

[jimm]

Maybe not in your neck of the woods jimm but I'd say what will be happening in Cornwall with service frequency doubled but with smaller trains, sounds awfuly princess esq to me....... even with the new signals that have been put in down there I think there is a real risk the brown stuff will hit the fan all too frequently when there are problems and delays etc etc.

You keep trying to spin this line that every HST has been running packed to the doors year-round west of the Tamar, morning, noon and night for the past four decades. Which is not the case.

Across much of the XC network, Operation Princess involved replacing an hourly HST with 450 seats or a Mk2 formation with 374 seats with half-hourly 220s with a grand total of 400 seats between them. Two 221s could just about match the capacity of the HST. Compounded by the sheer number of places Virgin was trying to serve at the time. No wonder there were problems, which continue to this day.

You have been told several times - by people in the know within GWR - that the full new timetable pattern and future fleet, including the short HSTs, will increase the number of seats running through Cornwall each day. Never mind the adjustments to rolling stock allocations for the summer holiday season.

And believe it or not, when the frequency of services changes, people's travel habits also change. There is no comparison between the current Cotswold Line timetable and what was operating 20 years ago. The number of trains covering the full run between London, Oxford and Worcester will almost have doubled once the new timetable kicks in at the end of the year and every time an adjustment has come, passengers have also adjusted their travel habits. I have no doubt that the same will happen in Cornwall once people get used to the idea there will be another train along in about 30 minutes, rather than the current random intervals.

 

[31160]

I'm thinking of doing the Gloucester diversions the last weekend of April, the Swansea trains are the ones diverted I assume by then HST's will be a thing of memory

 

[JN114]

I’d need to double check but I don’t think there are any South Wales HSTs diagrammed on a weekday anymore. As such it’s unlikely the diversions via Lydney will have any HSTs.

 

[31160]

I’d need to double check but I don’t think there are any South Wales HSTs diagrammed on a weekday anymore. As such it’s unlikely the diversions via Lydney will have any HSTs.

Thanks

 

[jeyer]

…customer support at GWR, their systems still show all of them as HST for 12 March and a few other days around then, so I don't think I can officially book the wheelchair accessible space for Pullman Dining.

On 1C80 and 1A97, when they're 802 (2x5), does anyone know if the restaurant car is usually in the front 5 or the back 5? Or do they have Pullman dining in both? I'm thinking maybe I can try to make sure I'm in the right section based on coach and seat number. Looks like coach E would be the front and L the back (or does that vary?). Seating plans show seat number 43 and 44 on 802s as wheelchair spaces, and for HST, seat L00 1st and C00 standard are wheelchair spaces.

 

[Goldfish62]

On 1C80 and 1A97, when they're 802 (2x5), does anyone know if the restaurant car is usually in the front 5 or the back 5? Or do they have Pullman dining in both? I'm thinking maybe I can try to make sure I'm in the right section based on coach and seat number. Looks like coach E would be the front and L the back (or does that vary?). Seating plans show seat number 43 and 44 on 802s as wheelchair spaces, and for HST, seat L00 1st and C00 standard are wheelchair spaces.

Rear five, so if you're in the wrong part of the train it's tough. The whole notion of not allocating nine car sets to the dining trains is absurd. But hey ho, operational convenience comes before customers I guess.

 

[irish_rail]

Rear five, so if you're in the wrong part of the train it's tough. The whole notion of not allocating nine car sets to the dining trains is absurd. But hey ho, operational convenience comes before customers I guess.

Indeed. The 5 car things are incredibly unpopular with staff and passengers.

 

[SamYeager]

Indeed. The 5 car things are incredibly unpopular with staff and passengers.

Any source for this statement apart from your well known distaste for 5 cars?

 

[irish_rail]

Yes being a member of staff I am yet to meet a fellow member of staff who likes the pairings be them drivers (coupling and uncoupling is a total hassle) train managers (losing revenue as people realise that they needn't buy a ticket if travelling in the front 5 set) restaurant staff (only half the number of possible custoners and a lack of space) . The list is endless I'm afraid. Admittedly I can only go on hearsay from the passenger point of view but strangely I'm yet to meet a punter who likes the fact the train is no longer walk through and they must know which portion to sit in for Cornwall. And maybe there are some who like that if there is a staff shortage their portion of the train may not get the wonderful trolley service. Who knows?.....

 

[Railperf]

1A85 = HST
1A87 = HST
1A97 = 802 (2x5)

Can anyone confirm what Class 802 diagrams are booked for this weekend please?

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

Is there a updated version of the IET diagrammes available on a website or on any forums cheers for any info

 

[JN114]

Is there a updated version of the IET diagrammes available on a website or on any forums cheers for any info

Virtually any former HST service is now IET operated, there are very few HSTs left in service. They’re probably too numerous to list now, easier to look in the thread about remaining HST diagrams as to what isn’t an IET.

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

Virtually any former HST service is now IET operated, there are very few HSTs left in service. They’re probably too numerous to list now, easier to look in the thread about remaining HST diagrams as to what isn’t an IET.

Cheers as you say not many left it was the individual day diagrams l needed to find out

 

[FGW_DID]

As JN114 says, there are lots of IET diagrams now, too many to type out (over 50 SX diagrams). If you have a question about a particular working I don’t mind having a look.

 

[JonathanH]

Is there a updated version of the IET diagrammes available on a website or on any forums cheers for any info

Best thing to do is sign up for the IETgen group on Groups.io. There are regular postings of workings for the latest units (although it is a bit biased towards workings to the south west). You can obviously also do your own analysis of the diagrams using RTT as platform allocations at Paddington seem to be quite accurate. Also, if you are out travelling, 5, 9 and 10 car workings are distinguished on Tiger.

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

Best thing to do is sign up for the IETgen group on Groups.io. There are regular postings of workings for the latest units (although it is a bit biased towards workings to the south west). You can obviously also do your own analysis of the diagrams using RTT as platform allocations at Paddington seem to be quite accurate. Also, if you are out travelling, 5, 9 and 10 car workings are distinguished on Tiger.

Hello l am in the IET group and use Tiger quite regularly to find if 5 - 9 -or 10 car it was the odd one l needed for haulage to chase in the day on a later diagrame cheers for the reply

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

As JN114 says, there are lots of IET diagrams now, too many to type out (over 50 SX diagrams). If you have a question about a particular working I don’t mind having a look.

Cheers for the reply it's mainly the Paddington Oxford route l have majority of the others cheers

 

[Trainfan061193]

Does anyone know which West Country diagrams have recently gone over to IET? Many thanks.

 

[Melancholia]

Does anyone know which West Country diagrams have recently gone over to IET? Many thanks.

On the 8th March, the following West Country runs went over to IET working:

IW009 -
1C91 1733 Paddington - Paignton
2A65 2135 Paignton - Newton Abbot

IW010 -
1A72 0553 Plymouth - Paddington

Next to go should be on 05/04, diagrams below:

IW002 -

1A82 0900 Penzance - Paddington
1C86 1503 Paddington - Penzance

IW005 -

1C40 0702 Plymouth - Penzance
1A85 1000 Penzance - Paddington
1C88 1603 Paddington - Penzance

IW007 -

1A75 0505 Penzance - Paddington
1C78 1103 Paddington - Plymouth
1A91 1500 Plymouth - Paddington
1C94 1903 Paddington - Plymouth

 

[Trainfan061193]

On the 8th March, the following West Country runs went over to IET working:

IW009 -
1C91 1733 Paddington - Paignton
2A65 2135 Paignton - Newton Abbot

IW010 -
1A72 0553 Plymouth - Paddington

Next to go should be on 05/04, diagrams below:

IW002 -

1A82 0900 Penzance - Paddington
1C86 1503 Paddington - Penzance

IW005 -

1C40 0702 Plymouth - Penzance
1A85 1000 Penzance - Paddington
1C88 1603 Paddington - Penzance

IW007 -

1A75 0505 Penzance - Paddington
1C78 1103 Paddington - Plymouth
1A91 1500 Plymouth - Paddington
1C94 1903 Paddington - Plymouth

Thanks for that. The decline of the HST continues.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Is there a updated version of the IET diagrammes available on a website or on any forums cheers for any info

This is from weekday platform end notes and tiger, so it is not official. I apologise for only using headcodes, but as noted above there are too many trains to type out in detail. The diagrams I show as 800 or 802 will be diagrammed one type or the other but in practice there is a lot of day to day variation (plus 9 vice 10 or 10 vice 9). Likewise the sets that go on to North Pole(NPO) during the day will have a booked next working but in practice maintenance and other operational requirements mean that there is no fixed pattern as to what they do next.

(5) 800/802
1K05 1D15 1P19 1D22 1P28 1W29 1P42
1W12 1P22 1W23 1P33 1D34 1P41 1D38 1P48
1D13 1P16 1W19 1P29 1W31 1P44

(10) 800/802
1C01 1L48 1C15 1A23 1B69
1C02 1A10 1B27 1L65 1C22
1B05 1L52 1C17 1A25 1B79
1C03 1A11 1B28 1L76 1C27
1L01 1B09 1L46 1C14 1A22 1B63
1B10 1L55 1C19 1A26 1B81
1L05 1C05 1A13 1B35 1L86 1C29
1A03 1B12 1L51 1B40 1L90 (5) 1D41 1P50
1L08 1C06 1A14
1A04 1B15 1L62 1C21 1A28 1B88
1L14 1C07 1A15 1C16 1A24 1B76
1L24 1B22 1L60 1B51 1L94
1A09 1B25 1L71 1C25 1A33 1B94
1L34 1C11 1A18 1C20 1A29 1C31
1L38 1C13 1A21 1B59 1L96
1L42 1B31 1L68 1C24 1A37

(9) 800/802
1W11 1P14 1B20 1L66 1J91
1P80 1W14 1P25 1D26 1P32 1W33 1P47
1A02 1G11 1L50 1G38 1L80 1U28
1P12 1D18 1P24 1W25 1P36 1W36 1P49
1L16 1B17 1L54 1C18 1A27 1G88
1A06 1C08 1A16 1B42 1L82 1C28
1L20 1G21 1L58 1B48 1L88 1W39
2Y03 1A07 1C09 1A17 1B46 1L92 1C33 (*)
1P18 1C10 1A19 1W32 1P40 1W04
1L32 1C77 1A90 1G70 1T48
1G02 1L36 1C12 1A20 1B55
1P02 NPO
1K71 NPO
1P07 NPO
1L10 NPO
1A70 NPO
1P10 NPO
1L28 NPO
1A08 NPO
1C72 1A83 NPO
NPO 1W01 1P39 1D37 1P45 1C32
NPO 1G29 1L67 1W02 1P51
NPO 1B37 1L74 1C26 2M70
NPO 1G47 1L91 1B91
NPO 1C89 1A98
NPO 1D90 NPO
NPO 1C23
NPO 1G60
NPO 1J93 1A95
NPO 1C36

(5) 802
2C48 2P95

(10) 802
1C71 1A88 1C92
1C04 1A93 1C96
1A73 1C76 1A97
1A77 1C80 1A35

(9) 802
1P04 1W00 1P31 1C91 2A65
1A72 1D20 1P26 1W27 1P37 1W03
1A31 1W42

(*) This diagram is HST this week

Hope this helps

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

This is from weekday platform end notes and tiger, so it is not official. I apologise for only using headcodes, but as noted above there are too many trains to type out in detail. The diagrams I show as 800 or 802 will be diagrammed one type or the other but in practice there is a lot of day to day variation (plus 9 vice 10 or 10 vice 9). Likewise the sets that go on to North Pole(NPO) during the day will have a booked next working but in practice maintenance and other operational requirements mean that there is no fixed pattern as to what they do next.

(5) 800/802
1K05 1D15 1P19 1D22 1P28 1W29 1P42
1W12 1P22 1W23 1P33 1D34 1P41 1D38 1P48
1D13 1P16 1W19 1P29 1W31 1P44

(10) 800/802
1C01 1L48 1C15 1A23 1B69
1C02 1A10 1B27 1L65 1C22
1B05 1L52 1C17 1A25 1B79
1C03 1A11 1B28 1L76 1C27
1L01 1B09 1L46 1C14 1A22 1B63
1B10 1L55 1C19 1A26 1B81
1L05 1C05 1A13 1B35 1L86 1C29
1A03 1B12 1L51 1B40 1L90 (5) 1D41 1P50
1L08 1C06 1A14
1A04 1B15 1L62 1C21 1A28 1B88
1L14 1C07 1A15 1C16 1A24 1B76
1L24 1B22 1L60 1B51 1L94

1A09 1B25 1L71 1C25 1A33 1B94
1L34 1C11 1A18 1C20 1A29 1C31
1L38 1C13 1A21 1B59 1L96
1L42 1B31 1L68 1C24 1A37

(9) 800/802
1W11 1P14 1B20 1L66 1J91
1P80 1W14 1P25 1D26 1P32 1W33 1P47
1A02 1G11 1L50 1G38 1L80 1U28
1P12 1D18 1P24 1W25 1P36 1W36 1P49
1L16 1B17 1L54 1C18 1A27 1G88
1A06 1C08 1A16 1B42 1L82 1C28
1L20 1G21 1L58 1B48 1L88 1W39
2Y03 1A07 1C09 1A17 1B46 1L92 1C33 (*)
1P18 1C10 1A19 1W32 1P40 1W04
1L32 1C77 1A90 1G70 1T48
1G02 1L36 1C12 1A20 1B55
1P02 NPO
1K71 NPO
1P07 NPO
1L10 NPO
1A70 NPO
1P10 NPO
1L28 NPO
1A08 NPO
1C72 1A83 NPO
NPO 1W01 1P39 1D37 1P45 1C32
NPO 1G29 1L67 1W02 1P51
NPO 1B37 1L74 1C26 2M70
NPO 1G47 1L91 1B91
NPO 1C89 1A98
NPO 1D90 NPO
NPO 1C23
NPO 1G60
NPO 1J93 1A95
NPO 1C36

(5) 802
2C48 2P95

(10) 802
1C71 1A88 1C92
1C04 1A93 1C96
1A73 1C76 1A97
1A77 1C80 1A35

(9) 802
1P04 1W00 1P31 1C91 2A65
1A72 1D20 1P26 1W27 1P37 1W03
1A31 1W42

(*) This diagram is HST this week

Hope this helps

Many thanks for your time and trouble this is of great help to me and many others much obliged

 

[Gagravarr]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask...

Having "enjoyed" the 09:31 shoulder-peak service from Oxford into London Paddington recently, operated by a 3 coach turbo clogging the fast lines at 90mph - does anyone know when/if this is set to be replaced by and IEP?

 

[JonathanH]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask...

Having "enjoyed" the 09:31 shoulder-peak service from Oxford into London Paddington recently, operated by a 3 coach turbo clogging the fast lines at 90mph - does anyone know when/if this is set to be replaced by and IEP?

It is currently linked into the stopping services between Reading and Oxford and looks like it still will be after the May timetable change although there are some changes to the morning workings. In particular, RTT shows the unit returning to Reading Traincare Depot empty after working the 0931 Oxford to London Paddington.

There does seem to be an 'enabling' change to the diagrams from May.

Currently, the relevant Turbo working appears to be:

5L03 0448 Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Oxford 0450 (rear unit)
2L05 0517 Oxford to Reading 0607
2L10 0623 Reading to Oxford 0701
5L13 0702 Oxford to Oxford 0720 (via Oxford Carriage Siding 2)
2L13 0721 Oxford to Reading 0810
2L20 0819 Reading to Oxford 0907
5P21 09+09 Oxford to Oxford 0928 (via Oxford Down Turnback Line)
1P21 0931 Oxford to London Paddington 1031
5P21 10+37 London Paddington to Reading Traincare Depot 1202

A pair of Turbos works

5P03 05+47 Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Oxford 0549
1P03 0550 Oxford to London Paddington 0723
1W16 0750 London Paddington to Great Malvern 1014 (splitting at Moreton-in March)

then one unit works

1P23 0950 Moreton-in-Marsh to London Paddington 1130 (Oxford 1031)

and the other works

1P27 1059 Great Malvern to London Paddington 1330 (Oxford 1231)

From the May timetable change, 1W16 drops a unit for 1P21 at Oxford while 2L20 (now 2E20) works through to Moreton-in-Marsh following 1W16 from Oxford.

Small change but in theory it would make it easier for 1P21 to eventually be a IET subject to either stabling at Oxford or an early morning IET working from North Pole.

Anyway, no change to Turbos on the 0931 from Oxford to London Paddington for the moment.