GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by jimm, 29 Aug 2017.

  1. jimm

    jimm Established Member

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    Mod Note: Split from this thread.

    Diagrams for Class 800s have started to appear in the system for October and November, according to poster Adelante_CCT at the Great Western Passengers' Forum.

    http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10150.1035

    From October 16

    07:00 Paddington to Bristol TM
    09:30 Bristol TM to Paddington
    11:45 Paddington to Swansea
    15:24 (15:29) Swansea to Paddington
    19:00 Paddington to Bristol TM

    06:00 Bristol TM to Paddington
    08:15 Paddington to Cardiff
    10:55 Cardiff to Paddington
    13:45 Paddington to Swansea
    17:24 (17:29) Swansea to Paddington

    Plus from November 13

    06:45 Paddington to Swansea
    10:29 Swansea to Paddington
    14:15 Paddington to Cardiff
    16:56 Cardiff to Paddington

    06:33 Bristol to Paddington
    08:45 Paddington to Swansea
    12:29 Swansea to Paddington
    17:30 Paddington to Taunton
    21:29 Taunton to Paddington
     
    Last edited: 29 Aug 2017
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  3. leomartin125

    leomartin125 Member

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    Interesting, just checked RTT and the 0600 BRI to PAD schedule is there, however the 0815 PAD - CDF doesn't seem to exist... only Swansea's...
     
  4. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Is the HST timing load because:
    • 800s don't have their own SRTs
    • They have to interwork with HSTs until the entire fleet is in service so no point timing them any faster
    • They're being cautious and using HST timings so that HSTs can substitute if there are problems, or
    • Other
     
  5. leomartin125

    leomartin125 Member

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    I didn't ask about that. I asked why the Cardiff schedule it's booked on doesn't exist? It's one an hour to Wales from Paddington on the week of 16th October despite what that diagram states....
     
  6. jimm

    jimm Established Member

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    You aren't going to rewrite the timetable for a handful of trains, that, as you suggest, could need to be replaced by an HST anyway.

    There will still be a lot of HST duties on the GWML well into next year too, with the big timetable shake-up coming at the end of the year by which time pretty much all the 800s and 802s will be available.

    Or someone could just be tinkering with the timetable details in the system for that week.
     
  7. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I wasn't asking you, just asking a question on the back of the fact that you looked on RTT.
     
  8. Clarence Yard

    Clarence Yard Member

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    a) Correct. There are some DfT draft timings going back years but they are not now officially recognised by NR. As the units are now going to be heavier and operate at 125 on diesel, they need to be compiled again. Time is running out for Dec 2018 as GWR have to bid a timetable to NR in March 2018 with these new timings in the national train planning system.

    b) Correct. You only alter the journey times when you have a service (and some electric infrastructure) that will support such a big change. You don't want to be altering the entire GWR timetable every time another IET hits the tracks.

    c) Correct. The introduction cascade is based on the "staircase" principle so it can be reversed, slowed down or speeded up as required, without rediagramming everything and everybody. It's an old ER method of introducing new stock.
     
  9. superalbs

    superalbs Established Member

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    It's on RTT under CAN, but maybe it'll be activated later?

    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20048/2017/10/16/advanced

    Also note that this working starts on the 16th of October, so is likely there to cater for any Class 800 services.
     
    Last edited: 30 Aug 2017
  10. leomartin125

    leomartin125 Member

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    Cheers Albie. Be interesting to see, I'm guessing it won't run on the wires until January 2018? Or maybe it will, with testing scheduled for next month in and around the Reading area, maybe it will be able to run on the wires? Or maybe it will run OLE as far as Maidenhead, then drop the pantograph and speed from there to Reading? Then put it up again and Reading, then drop it again at Didcot! Seems a lot of chopping and changing in order to get the right efficiency. Maybe they will see that and they will run diesel only until January 2018?
     
  11. DaveHarries

    DaveHarries Established Member

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    Morning all,

    It seems that Class 800s, at least from Bristol Temple Meads, will start service on 16th October: the ECS moves between Bristol Temple Meads and Stoke Gifford for Class 800s heading out on / returning from passenger service start to appear in schedules on RealTimeTrains from that date.

    As things stand, for 16th October only two are shown:
    - 5A03 0445 Stoke Gifford - Bristol Temple Meads (this will be the first out)
    - 5C27 2109 Bristol Temple Meads - Stoke Gifford

    This remains until 13th November when the number of ECS movements increases to four:
    - 5A03 0445 Stoke Gifford - Bristol Temple Meads
    - 5A04 0545 Stoke Gifford - Bristol Temple Meads
    - 5C24 1925 Bristol Temple Meads - Stoke Gifford
    - 5C27 2109 Bristol Temple Meads - Stoke Gifford

    Swansea Malliphant CSD has nothing showing on RTT before the end of November in terms of 800s leaving depot to enter service.

    HTIOI,
    Dave
     
  12. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    There is a depot at the London end as well

    5C03 0633 North Pole Iep Depot to London Paddington
    5L90 2051 London Paddington to North Pole Iep Depot

    appear from 16 October

    and

    5B05 0618 North Pole Iep Depot to London Paddington
    5L62 1552 London Paddington to North Pole Iep Depot
    5C24 1701 North Pole Iep Depot to London Paddington
    5A37 0045 London Paddington to North Pole Iep Depot

    appear from 13 November
     
  13. fishquinn

    fishquinn Established Member Quizmaster

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    Is it just weekdays to start with then or will they also be working on weekends?
     
  14. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    Those diagrams don't balance because they don't take account of a pair of units splitting on the Taunton service.

    1C24 1730 London Paddington to Taunton splits at Bristol Temple Meads - front unit works on to Taunton and back to Paddington on 1A37 2129 Taunton to London Paddington - rear unit goes 5C24 1925 Bristol Temple Meads to Stoke Gifford.

    which begs the question as to which of the posted diagrams are 5/10-car workings.

    What does the unit that works 1656 Cardiff Central to London Paddington do next?
     
  15. Clarence Yard

    Clarence Yard Member

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    1C28 1930 Paddington to Bristol TM. One half to Stoke Gifford, other half to come back on 1A37, joining the other half (coming up from Taunton) at Bristol TM. That diagram "swop" at Bristol has been done to preserve Agility TARA maintenance windows.
     
  16. tgrb

    tgrb Member

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    If you were the sort of people to bet... would you buy a ticket for the 06:00 from Bristol TM on the 16/10/17 to get on the 1st 800 in passenger service on GWR?
     
  17. JN114

    JN114 Established Member

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    Yes, I would
     
  18. Master29

    Master29 On Moderation

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    This is not what this user says. They mention "rumours" and "VAR" on the diagram. Not necessarily a class 800. Don`t quote it as factual.
     
  19. D1009

    D1009 Established Member

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    But would you bet on it running in electric mode at any part of the journey?
     
  20. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    While it'd be pricey you could just buy a walk-up and refund it if an HST substituted.
     
  21. JN114

    JN114 Established Member

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    Yes I would.
     
  22. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Member

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    You'd probably lose your money. I will be very surprised if there is much (if any) electric running before Christmas. Drivers have to be assessed driving them in electric mode before being able to take them like that in passenger service, and to date only diesel-mode handling has occurred. There is also still a restriction in place on the safety certification for GWR that pantographs can only be raised under test conditions and at a maximum of 20mph which makes it all a bit too difficult at present.
     
  23. D1009

    D1009 Established Member

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    Still 6+ weeks to go though.
     
  24. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    I hope that given they will start to be introduced during the leaf fall season that they don't all end up with 50p piece wheels at the end of the first week!
     
  25. Triumph

    Triumph Member

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    1c28 1930 pad -bri
     
  26. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    That's hilarious, I bet GWR are losing the plot over that. Mind you they always love a good spot bid after the event.
     
  27. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Member

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    Not sure hilarious is the word...
     
    Last edited: 17 Sep 2017
  28. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    It is when I suspect we will dither over confirming the SRTs in the meantime.
     
  29. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Member

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    But who does that benefit? In the short run, GWR are prevented from improving journey times, so the passengers suffer as does their bottom line. In the long run, Network Rail loses what little face they still have and the media have a field day. Everyone loses - how hilarious is that now?
     
  30. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    Oh untwist your knickers, having seen this so many times its hilarious to me. Believe me NEITHER side in this looks good.
     
  31. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Member

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    I must admit I fail to see a side that brings NR out in any kind of positive light. The SRTs that DfT developed with NR would be perfectly adequate had the electrification deadlines not slipped so badly. Given that Network Rail aren't in the habit of cheerfully accepting sectional timings proposed by TOCs - it has to go through all the modelling regardless - you'd have thought a bit of sensible prioritisation would be in order. But then we are talking about NR.
     

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