GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

[Bornin1980s]

Will any of these early diagrams pass through Exeter?

 

[The Planner]

Given that Network Rail aren't in the habit of cheerfully accepting sectional timings proposed by TOCs - it has to go through all the modelling regardless - you'd have thought a bit of sensible prioritisation would be in order. But then we are talking about NR.

Pot and kettle there as well, find me a TOC or FOC that will accept any changes proposed by NR without a huge amount of grief or a formal dispute.

 

[PHILIPE]

Will any of these early diagrams pass through Exeter?

They would have to make very lengthy diversions to do so

 

[nw1]

When is the latest date for the complete timetable recast to take into account electrification and the IEPs incidentally? I understood it was originally around now but has presumably been put back due to electrification delays.

Guessing it might be when Crossrail opens now as it would save having to rewrite the timetable twice?

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I'm going to try catch the first class 800 service from Paddington!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

When is the latest date for the complete timetable recast to take into account electrification and the IEPs incidentally? I understood it was originally around now but has presumably been put back due to electrification delays.

Guessing it might be when Crossrail opens now as it would save having to rewrite the timetable twice?

The major GWR timetable recast occurs at December 2018, although given some of the infrastructure works are commissioned at Christmas it's likely to be January 2019. This will be based on wires being completed to Chippenham and (I believe) Bristol Parkway, although Cardiff keeps being mentioned I don't personally see it happening.

When you think the December 2017 timetable was originally supposed to be based on completed electrification to Swansea, Bristol, Newbury and Oxford, it shows just how far behind the programme the works are.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Pot and kettle there as well, find me a TOC or FOC that will accept any changes proposed by NR without a huge amount of grief or a formal dispute.

If Network Rail (for who I presume you work) were in the habit of proposing sensible and/or realistic changes, within accepted timescales and in compliance with the Network Code, Train Planning Rules and limits of flexing, then I suspect the TOCs and FOCs might be a little bit more receptive.

Your comment makes little sense - if it generates 'grief' it's likely because either the proposed amendment doesn't achieve the minimum standards I've just quoted, breaks the resourcing limits (such as traincrew diagrams) the operating company must operate within, or has such a detrimental impact on the timetable that it breaks compliance with the SLC, which a TOC is legally obliged to challenge.

If it goes to formal dispute then ultimately everyone has lost, because it wrecks the planning timescales and becomes a Pyrrhic victory even if the TOC wins. But then no operator would go right to dispute without having a pretty solid argument otherwise they'd end up looking pretty stupid (and non-compliant.) Sounds more like the sour grapes are on your side, my friend.

 

[jimm]

When you think the December 2017 timetable was originally supposed to be based on completed electrification to Swansea, Bristol, Newbury and Oxford, it shows just how far behind the programme the works are.

No, it wasn't - Swansea was not supposed to be wired until at least May 2018. Article from 2015 linked below.

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...s-of-south-wales-electrification-set-to-start

The big timetable change was always going to be December 2018, not 2017 - as was made clear by the FGW stakeholder presentation that did the rounds in April 2015 when the direct award franchise started,

This showed a series of timetable changes up to the May 2017 timetable - chiefly related to the supposed wiring dates in the Thames Valley allowing emu operations to spread, then precious few alterations anywhere in December 2017 and May 2018, until the 'big bang' in December 2018.

The full GW Class 800 and 801 (as was) fleet was not going to be available until August 2018, whatever the progress on electrification.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Jimm - that is a fair point about the 80x fleet delivery, you're quite correct.

 

[The Planner]

If Network Rail (for who I presume you work) were in the habit of proposing sensible and/or realistic changes, within accepted timescales and in compliance with the Network Code, Train Planning Rules and limits of flexing, then I suspect the TOCs and FOCs might be a little bit more receptive.

Your comment makes little sense - if it generates 'grief' it's likely because either the proposed amendment doesn't achieve the minimum standards I've just quoted, breaks the resourcing limits (such as traincrew diagrams) the operating company must operate within, or has such a detrimental impact on the timetable that it breaks compliance with the SLC, which a TOC is legally obliged to challenge.

If it goes to formal dispute then ultimately everyone has lost, because it wrecks the planning timescales and becomes a Pyrrhic victory even if the TOC wins. But then no operator would go right to dispute without having a pretty solid argument otherwise they'd end up looking pretty stupid (and non-compliant.) Sounds more like the sour grapes are on your side, my friend.

Oh far from it, we play by the rules but if we propose an amendment to a SRT or TPR value that actually reflects reality, removes ZZ or QA delay and does not cause detrimental issues to the timetable you can bet your backside it won't be immediately accepted.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Oh far from it, we play by the rules but if we propose an amendment to a SRT or TPR value that actually reflects reality, removes ZZ or QA delay and does not cause detrimental issues to the timetable you can bet your backside it won't be immediately accepted.

Quite correct and non-acceptance is usually for a very good reason. It probably does actually break a PSR or unit/crew resources, both of which cannot easily be rectified. This is because the network is contractually running at a very high level of utilisation. NR are usually blissfully unaware of the consequential chaos that these SRT or TPR alterations can cause. In which case the DFT always instructs the TOC to dispute. Too many amendments coming in late in the timetable production process also causes problems.

In the case of the 80x SRTs, the recent surprise statement by NR to the DfT that the DfT figures are not acceptable has spooked the DFT completely. Then when NR said they could not begin to work on the new SRTs until late 2018, it all threatened to go completely Pete Tong for May 2019, let alone December 2018. GWR/FG have been asked by the DfT to pick up the problem but building up the infrastructure model on which to populate the (as yet) uncalculated Point to Points will take time and it all may not be achievable in time for bidding. In which case the 80x are stuck on HST times for that timetable.

 

[Class 33]

These are weekday services. Any news on when they will start working weekend services?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

They will commence at weekends at the same time (or to be precise, exactly 5 days after) the Mon-Fri services start.

 

[Harbornite]

Will any of these early diagrams pass through Exeter?

No...

 

[TheWalrus]

When will we start seeing them in Exeter?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Summer 2018 for Exeter.

 

[Class 33]

They will commence at weekends at the same time (or to be precise, exactly 5 days after) the Mon-Fri services start.

At the weekends though, some of the services operating at the same times as the weekday times listed are extended beyond their weekday terminating/starting points. For instance the Saturdays 1900 service from London Paddington terminates at Taunton rather than Bristol Temple Meads. So will this still be a Super Express train? Also on some weekends the times can be different to the usual weekday departure times, whether they're operating via alternative routes or not. For instance on Saturday 18th November there are London Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads services departing at 1848 and 1928. So which one will be a Super Express train?

I'd like to book a return journey to London Paddington on an upcoming Saturday to get a journey on a Super Express Train there and back. But not so confident these times will be reliable for weekend services, and it could end up just being the usual HST's that I end up getting on.

 

[spark001uk]

Who just saw the first showing on ITV of the new GWR ad featuring the 800s then?

Interesting depiction of what I'm led to believe is PNZ, looks like an 800 in one platform with a 165/166 next to it.!

 

[JonathanH]

Best thing to do to see whether a service might be an IEP is to trace its workings on RTT.

On Saturday 18 November there are no workings from Stoke Gifford
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...17/11/18/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Hardly surprising given the engineering work is between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway.

and two from North Pole
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...17/11/18/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

It doesn't look like either the 1848 or 1928 from Paddington are likely to be IEPs on that date. The 1848 appears to go empty to Laira on reaching Taunton. The 1928 appears to go to St Philips Marsh on reaching Bristol.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

At the weekends though, some of the services operating at the same times as the weekday times listed are extended beyond their weekday terminating/starting points. For instance the Saturdays 1900 service from London Paddington terminates at Taunton rather than Bristol Temple Meads. So will this still be a Super Express train? Also on some weekends the times can be different to the usual weekday departure times, whether they're operating via alternative routes or not. For instance on Saturday 18th November there are London Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads services departing at 1848 and 1928. So which one will be a Super Express train?

I'd like to book a return journey to London Paddington on an upcoming Saturday to get a journey on a Super Express Train there and back. But not so confident these times will be reliable for weekend services, and it could end up just being the usual HST's that I end up getting on.

The Saturday and Sunday diagrams will be different by definition, because the timetable is different. And any engineering work may revise the diagrams again, although they are constrained by the Agility maintenance contracts and reduced fuel mileage compared to HST.

 

[spark001uk]

The new GWR "Five go on a Great Western Adventure" TV advert featuring the 800s has been released this evening, also available on youtube HERE.

Interesting depiction of what I'm led to believe is PNZ (though seemingly simplified to a couple of platforms), looks like an 800 in one platform with a 165/166 next to it.!

.

 

[steevp]

The new GWR "Five go on a Great Western Adventure" TV advert featuring the 800s has been released this evening, also available on youtube HERE.

Interesting depiction of what I'm led to believe is PNZ (though seemingly simplified to a couple of platforms), looks like an 800 in one platform with a 165/166 next to it.!

.

So.... a dog travelling by hot air balloon, motorcycle and sidecar and motor cruiser boat can beat one of the new trains?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Interesting depiction of what I'm led to believe is PNZ (though seemingly simplified to a couple of platforms), looks like an 800 in one platform with a 165/166 next to it.!

There also appears to have been an earthquake as St Michael's Mount has moved to the Newlyn area...

 

[AlterEgo]

Just tried a dummy booking for 16th October on the 0600 BRI-PAD. First Class places me in Coach L, which suggests a HST?

Does anyone have the Class 800 seating plan?

 

[I13]

I just tried a few dummy bookings too. On a 1st Advance, it put me in Coach K the first few attempts, then finally got one in Coach D.

 

[AlterEgo]

I just tried a few dummy bookings too. On a 1st Advance, it put me in Coach K the first few attempts, then finally got one in Coach D.

Which service was this?

 

[I13]

0600 BRI-PAD, 16 Oct. It only put me in Coach D when I put my seating preference down as 'backwards'.

 

[spark001uk]

0600 BRI-PAD, 16 Oct. It only put me in Coach D when I put my seating preference down as 'backwards'.

So what we saying then, the system is able to make 1st bookings in D and K on the same service?

 

[I13]

Yep. And in L, it would seem.

 

[D1009]

Just tried a dummy booking for 16th October on the 0600 BRI-PAD. First Class places me in Coach L, which suggests a HST?

Does anyone have the Class 800 seating plan?

Do we know yet how the 10 car iETs are going to be lettered?