GWR Timetable Post-Modernisation

[Jorge Da Silva]

Does anyone know what the timetable is planned to look like after all the GWML Modernisation is Completed? Services patterns, frequencies etc. Thank you.

 

[swt_passenger]

Well there’s always this thread, started only a few days ago:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-dec-19-timetable.180888/
But what date are you defining for completion of “modernisation”? What about any further wiring yet to be confirmed, and what about Crossrail?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Well there’s always this thread, started only a few days ago:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-dec-19-timetable.180888/
But what date are you defining for completion of “modernisation”? What about any further wiring yet to be confirmed, and what about Crossrail?

When the overall timetable once the electrification and Modernisation currently planned is completed around 2021?

 

[jimm]

Does anyone know what the timetable is planned to look like after all the GWML Modernisation is Completed? Services patterns, frequencies etc. Thank you.

Pretty much like the December 2019 timetable - which was developed some years ago on the basis that by the end of last year, when the major timetable shake-up should have happened, the key electrification and resignalling projects would all have been completed.

The all bi-mode GWR IET fleet means that it is possible to deliver that service pattern without all the elctrictrification being in place, notably around Bristol and Bath, where the diesel engines have saved the day.

Major timetable recasts only happen every so often, due to the sheer complexity of the exercise. The current basic GWML timetable pattern on most of the network is still recognisably the one that was introduced in December 2006.

 

[swt_passenger]

When the overall timetable once the electrification and Modernisation currently planned is completed around 2021?

Then I think you can’t really get an answer until the decision on further electrification is finalised, because that must for example have an impact on the Paddington - Didcot - Oxford services that are currently split.

 

[Glenn1969]

Presumably "any further wiring yet to be confirmed" won't happen without a change of Government because this Govt deems electrification to be too expensive and not worth the cost?

 

[swt_passenger]

Presumably "any further wiring yet to be confirmed" won't happen without a change of Government because this Govt deems electrification to be too expensive and not worth the cost?

Depends exactly how you interpret “deferred” or “cancelled” doesn’t it? But regularly discussed in the GW electrification thread already, so please let’s not do it again.

 

[swt_passenger]

The 2016 Western Route Study includes Didcot to Oxford capacity improvements, as part of the modernisation. I don’t think that’s actually defined yet. It also includes a description of a 2019 baseline service pattern, but that allows for EWR. As I say, you can’t predict a timetable until you know for sure what the post-modernisation steady state is.

 

[jimm]

Then I think you can’t really get an answer until the decision on further electrification is finalised, because that must for example have an impact on the Paddington - Didcot - Oxford services that are currently split.

The 2016 Western Route Study includes Didcot to Oxford capacity improvements, as part of the modernisation. I don’t think that’s actually defined yet. It also includes a description of a 2019 baseline service pattern, but that allows for EWR. As I say, you can’t predict a timetable until you know for sure what the post-modernisation steady state is.

Not much of an impact - the 387s will simply carry on to Oxford and return from there, as was always the plan in the first place, with the Turbos they displace going to Bristol. Getting the wires into Oxford will not have any fundamental impact on the overall shape of the timetable moving forward.

Anyone can see perfectly well - and make a prediction off the back of it - that the December 2019 (formerly 2018) timetable pattern is built around how many GWR services can be accommodated on the main lines between London and Reading, plus the few relief line paths that will be left for GWR once Crossrail starts operating.

So I will predict, repeating the point I made above, that the overall look of the GWR/any future successor's timetable will closely resemble the one that will be established this December and that will be the case for many years to come, whatever infrastructure developments happen. No one is going to go through this major timetable change exercise and then try to do something else a couple of years later.

The proposals for the Oxford-Didcot corridor are more about giving a general boost to capacity there, allowing better spacing of trains and more freight to be accommodated, notably Southampton container services, and hopefully removing conflicting moves to and from the Oxford line across the flat junctions at Didcot with construction of a flyover or diveunder, which will make operations there more robust and reduce the risk of delays developing that can cause knock-on problems many miles away.

 

[swt_passenger]

Not much of an impact - the 387s will simply carry on to Oxford and return from there, as was always the plan in the first place, with the Turbos they displace going to Bristol. Getting the wires into Oxford will not have any fundamental impact on the overall shape of the timetable moving forward.

Anyone can see perfectly well - and make a prediction off the back of it - that the December 2019 (formerly 2018) timetable pattern is built around how many GWR services can be accommodated on the main lines between London and Reading, plus the few relief line paths that will be left for GWR once Crossrail starts operating.

So I will predict, repeating the point I made above, that the overall look of the GWR/any future successor's timetable will closely resemble the one that will be established this December and that will be the case for many years to come, whatever infrastructure developments happen. No one is going to go through this major timetable change exercise and then try to do something else a couple of years later.

The proposals for the Oxford-Didcot corridor are more about giving a general boost to capacity there, allowing better spacing of trains and more freight to be accommodated, notably Southampton container services, and hopefully removing conflicting moves to and from the Oxford line across the flat junctions at Didcot with construction of a flyover or diveunder, which will make operations there more robust and reduce the risk of delays developing that can cause knock-on problems many miles away.

I tend to agree with all that. There will be tweaks to exact timings if through running of split services ceases, but the broad picture in terms of frequencies will be the same.

Hence we don’t really need this thread as we already have a fairly thorough discussion going on in parallel about Dec 2019...

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Not much of an impact - the 387s will simply carry on to Oxford and return from there, as was always the plan in the first place, with the Turbos they displace going to Bristol. Getting the wires into Oxford will not have any fundamental impact on the overall shape of the timetable moving forward.

Anyone can see perfectly well - and make a prediction off the back of it - that the December 2019 (formerly 2018) timetable pattern is built around how many GWR services can be accommodated on the main lines between London and Reading, plus the few relief line paths that will be left for GWR once Crossrail starts operating.

So I will predict, repeating the point I made above, that the overall look of the GWR/any future successor's timetable will closely resemble the one that will be established this December and that will be the case for many years to come, whatever infrastructure developments happen. No one is going to go through this major timetable change exercise and then try to do something else a couple of years later.

The proposals for the Oxford-Didcot corridor are more about giving a general boost to capacity there, allowing better spacing of trains and more freight to be accommodated, notably Southampton container services, and hopefully removing conflicting moves to and from the Oxford line across the flat junctions at Didcot with construction of a flyover or diveunder, which will make operations there more robust and reduce the risk of delays developing that can cause knock-on problems many miles away.

In any other case I would agree with you, pointing out it is as much the capacity and capability of London Paddington and it’s station throat. The massive potential disruptor in this case is the HS2 interchange station at Old Oak Common which will open in 2026. That will add both journey time increases and a requirement for additional diagrams to cover the service (by breaking turnarounds), plus remapping passenger journey choices on a potentially massive scale. I think the Dec 2019pattern will not last as long as some people think it will.

 

[nw1]

Pretty much like the December 2019 timetable - which was developed some years ago on the basis that by the end of last year, when the major timetable shake-up should have happened, the key electrification and resignalling projects would all have been completed.

The all bi-mode GWR IET fleet means that it is possible to deliver that service pattern without all the elctrictrification being in place, notably around Bristol and Bath, where the diesel engines have saved the day.

Major timetable recasts only happen every so often, due to the sheer complexity of the exercise. The current basic GWML timetable pattern on most of the network is still recognisably the one that was introduced in December 2006.

Longer than than that ISTR.. I'm sure the current (fast lines) timetable or something extremely similar to it was operating in April 2005 with only minor changes such as the Bedwyn now being xx06 rather than xx18 and less Oxford services running through to Worcester - at that time I think 3 in every 4 terminated at Oxford. On the other hand I do remember a different timetable in Sep 2003.. I distinctly remember Bedwyn services calling at Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough at that time.