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Halton Curve upgrade is on

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8A Rail

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Will it definitely be ATW running the Liverpool-Chester service? I have been presuming so as there is a clear aspiration to eventually extend Halton Curve services into Wales but I've not seen anything official about which TOC will be running it.

Interesting from an ORCATS point of view, because if it is ATW there'll be yet another operator between Lime Street & South Parkway (to add to Northern, London NW, TPE & EMT) as well as between Lime Street & Runcorn (to add to London NW & Virgin). Indeed, there'll be no less than six TOCs operating out of Lime Street high level, which will be fun for livery enthusiasts.

I do wonder how much a ticket will cost between Lime Street/South Parkway & Chester. It seems despite joining the combined authority, Halton doesn't want to give up its transport competence to Merseytravel. The only think that seems to have changed at the moment is Merseytravel branding at bus stops in the borough. You can't currently use either Saveaway or Railpass tickets in Halton. As someone who may well find it quicker to get to Chester via an 86 bus to South Parkway it would be disappointing if there was a significant difference in cost especially as I'd have to pay separately for the bus to South Parkway whereas a Saveaway would cover my entire journey via the Wirral Line. I think Merseytravel needs to, at the very least, get some sort of bilateral arrangement in place with Halton where 'all area' Saveaways can be used via Runcorn, in the same way they can be used on the Cheshire & Lancashire sections of Merseyrail. While we're at it, an agreement with TfGM to add Bryn & Wigan North Western would be nice too.

I must admit I am a little puzzled that Halton is included within the Liverpool City Region (& Merseytravel) but we are still unable to visit most parts of Halton (without additional payment) because it is outside the former/present Merseytravel boundary. Clearly, this needs to change but it may be not that easy especially as far as the trains are concerned. Runcorn Station is a Virgin Operated Station and consequently I cannot see them allowing people with Merseytravel Passes / Saveway to use their trains, let alone the station. I think this would also apply to London Midland too although they do allow passage to and from Liverpool South Parkway but again I cannot see them extending it to Runcorn Station. I do not see any problem with Halton BC operating their own buses as they do serve parts of Merseyside already, so that is not an issue. I think the best we could hopeful and eventually (I would assume) that Saveways and Travel Passes would be valid on Buses but not on trains to and from Runcorn Station. It would be nice, I must admit but don't see that happening.

(As a side issue, our Metro Mayor, Steve Rotherham has already stated that the two bridge crossings are nothing to do with him although both within the Liverpool City Region - strange and how to avoid confrontation with 'local' people!!).
 
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urbophile

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I don't understand why the Merseytravel area can't now take in Halton. If Virgin are worried about local scallies on Saveaways clogging up their express trains (of which there is only one an hour to Runcorn) why should there be a problem for LNW (if that is what London Midland is now called) or whoever runs the new Halton curve service? That would give at least 3tph between Runcorn and Liverpool. And it's a nonsense about the bridges because the tunnels come under Merseytravel.
 

B&I

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Aren't both bridges now under some form of PFI?
 

frodshamfella

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Just crossed Station Road Sutton Weaver , clearly see plenty on Orange jacketed workman at the junction with the curve.
 

driver_m

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Signals being decommissioned from the 19th.

The box is shutting for a week starting the 12th. All the existing signals appear to be getting took out, and Norton's section signal which is currently 4 aspect, will become 2. The semaphore distant is also going, so a rare-ish signal is about to become that bit rarer. Went past frodsham jn recently and the signal from halton junction is there and bagged up ready.
 

sw1ller

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The box is shutting for a week starting the 12th. All the existing signals appear to be getting took out, and Norton's section signal which is currently 4 aspect, will become 2. The semaphore distant is also going, so a rare-ish signal is about to become that bit rarer. Went past frodsham jn recently and the signal from halton junction is there and bagged up ready.

Oh right, I’ve not been that way for a few weeks myself, I was just going off info posted up in work.
 

frodshamfella

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Arriving today at Runcorn from Euston, I took a quick look at Halton Curve as we passed, it looks like they are putting up metal supports for overhead electric ??!! Could this be right ?
 
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WatcherZero

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I don't understand why the Merseytravel area can't now take in Halton. If Virgin are worried about local scallies on Saveaways clogging up their express trains (of which there is only one an hour to Runcorn) why should there be a problem for LNW (if that is what London Midland is now called) or whoever runs the new Halton curve service? That would give at least 3tph between Runcorn and Liverpool. And it's a nonsense about the bridges because the tunnels come under Merseytravel.

Aren't both bridges now under some form of PFI?

The Toll Bridges were specifically excluded from becoming Merseytravel influence or control when Halton joined the city region, they remain council controlled assets and their subsidised journeys only apply to Halton residents. Emovis were appointed to collect tolls under the Merseyflow brand but they are just contractors for Halton Council passing all the revenue along to them. All other aspects of Halton travel come under Merseytravel though it may take time for full integration to be seen.
 
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Great to see work under way! Is there a date for completion of the work and/or commencement of the passenger service?
I understand trackwork complete by end of June and services due to start in December. There is a new crossover to put in between Runcorn and Halton Junction.

Edit: It looks like there are engineering works over the next two bank holiday periods between Acton Bridge and Liverpool. Source is National Rail Enquiries.
 
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If this only benefits Welsh services by allowing them to reach Liverpool without going all the way via Earlestown then it would be something of a missed opportunity. I would suggest 2 lines with 1tph each or maybe 2:
Wapping/Victoria Loop > Edge Hill > Wavertree > Sefton Park > Mossley Hill > West Allerton > LSP Allerton > Ditton Junction >
1: Runcorn > Rocksavage (new station on Halton Curve by bus depot, interchange to Halton BRT system) > Frodsham > Helsby > Dunham Hill* > Mickle Trafford > Pipers Ash* > Chester.
2: Widnes (existing station renamed "Farnworth for Widnes") > Fiddler's Ferry Power Station* (workers' halt similar to Hawarden Bridge) > Fiddler's Ferry* > Sankey Bridges > Warrington Bank Quay (LL) > Warrington Arpley (reverse) > Moore & Daresbury > Runcorn East > Sutton Weaver* > Frodsham > Helsby > Ince & Elton > Stanlow & Thornton > Ellesmere Port.
*Unlikely to get built, but a potential option.
 

frodshamfella

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If this only benefits Welsh services by allowing them to reach Liverpool without going all the way via Earlestown then it would be something of a missed opportunity. I would suggest 2 lines with 1tph each or maybe 2:
Wapping/Victoria Loop > Edge Hill > Wavertree > Sefton Park > Mossley Hill > West Allerton > LSP Allerton > Ditton Junction >
1: Runcorn > Rocksavage (new station on Halton Curve by bus depot, interchange to Halton BRT system) > Frodsham > Helsby > Dunham Hill* > Mickle Trafford > Pipers Ash* > Chester.
2: Widnes (existing station renamed "Farnworth for Widnes") > Fiddler's Ferry Power Station* (workers' halt similar to Hawarden Bridge) > Fiddler's Ferry* > Sankey Bridges > Warrington Bank Quay (LL) > Warrington Arpley (reverse) > Moore & Daresbury > Runcorn East > Sutton Weaver* > Frodsham > Helsby > Ince & Elton > Stanlow & Thornton > Ellesmere Port.
*Unlikely to get built, but a potential option.

I believe there is a provision to add a station at Beechwood which is near Sutton Weaver.
 

frodshamfella

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I understand part of the this proposal is it will be on the Halton Junction to Frodsham Junction line?

Oh really I didn't know exactly where it might be sited. It's a good thing to have none the less. Just need through Welsh services using it asap.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Those photos appear to show that the track is being completely relaid? Is that really necessary? I was under the impression it just needed signalling, and work at the junctions at the two ends of the line to allow it to be bi-directional?
 

absolutelymilk

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I guess better to do it all in one go rather than have to relay the track in another ten years.
 

driver_m

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If the part visible from the main line is anything to go by, then the new track doesn't appear to have been slewed over at all.
 

The Planner

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I can't be bothered to trawl back to find when I asked before, but why does it need doubling for such a short length?
 

8A Rail

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If the part visible from the main line is anything to go by, then the new track doesn't appear to have been slewed over at all.
Agree. From the images of the newly laid track and along with the existing track, it seems to be placed down the middle rather than to one side or the other. It that a hint for what is not going to happen in the future?
 
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