Halton Curve upgrade is on

[nedchester]

Ive read Llandudno is planned...plus Cardiff every two hours.

The Manchester’s will mostly go to Bangor.

Llandudno will be connected to Liverpool as will Shrewsbury (Cardiff every other hour).

The Birmingham / South Wales to Holyhead’s much as now but with an enhanced WAG service.

 

[frodshamfella]

Me and my family were 5 of the 15 that got on at Frodsham today (at 10:26). One of my family lives nearby (not far from Moldsworth) and had been anticipating the improved connection with Liverpool for sometime. You must have missed us at Parkway - we got off there to change to Merseyrail.

After we bought our tickets I helped some of the other people at Frodsham buy theirs. It seems the new service has bought people to the railway who haven't travelled for a long time! One couple mentioned they could only find a £7 return but had heard of a cheaper ticket. I showed them the "Off-Peak Day Return via Runcorn" on the ticket machine - it wasn't the first option shown so it confused them. Another elderly couple struggled to use the machine - the Welsh franchise ticket machine was slower and more complex than the machines I'm used to in London.

From what I saw, the service is already drawing custom from the local area and loadings are healthy. It's easy to say in retrospect, but it's hard to believe it took such a long time to bring the (relatively short) Halton curve back into use and permit this connectivity for the region.

I've noticed this too, from the amount of people getting on and obviously aware of the new service, you do wonder why the link ever closed at all.

 

[krus_aragon]

But which service do you remove to let the Liverpool go into North Wales?

Or will it be 3tph?

It will be 3tph with the new Civity stock, from 2022.

 

[frodshamfella]

Took 08.24 Frodsham to Lime Street this morning, 3 car Class 175. Passenger loads pretty good.

 

[frodshamfella]

Took 11.01 Frodsham to Liverpool today, busy boarding and busy on board. Several got off at South Parkway with cases heading to John Lennon Airport. Just seen Charles Rennie Macintosh exhibition at the Walker Art Gallery, really worth a visit.

 

[absolutelymilk]

I presume the service was busy yesterday with Chester Races being on?

 

[fowler9]

175109 seems to be a permanent fixture on the service. Possibly because one engine seems to be out of use and loads of the double glazing is blown.

 

[Geno]

There is a steam-hauled charter train scheduled over the Halton Curve on Sunday 21/7/19, which I think must be the first steam train on the route for many years, but I stand to be corrected. Railway Touring Company have been running steam specials from Liverpool to Llandudno and/or Holyhead for a number of years but previously they went via Earlestown and Warrington to Chester. The train is planned to use 45690 Leander and local timings (from RTT) are:
Liverpool Lime St. dep. 10:55
Runcorn arr. 11:18
dep. 11:33
Halton Jct. pass 11:36
Frodsham Jct. pass 11:41
Frodsham arr. 11:44.

I hope this will be of interest and get a few people out to maybe take photos of the train passing.

 

[Llandudno]

Is this steam train operating to Llandudno or Holyhead.

If it is Llandudno do you know the timings in both directions at Deganwy?

Thanks!

 

[Geno]

Is this steam train operating to Llandudno or Holyhead.

If it is Llandudno do you know the timings in both directions at Deganwy?

Thanks!

Hi, I meant to say in my post the train is going to Holyhead, not Llandudno. Due to call at Llandudno Jct at 13:15 and 19:40 according to RTC info. I am currently on the Cumbrian Mountain Express hauled by 6201 Princess Elizabeth, going to Carlisle.

 

[_toommm_]

Is this steam train operating to Llandudno or Holyhead.

If it is Llandudno do you know the timings in both directions at Deganwy?

Thanks!

Timings below:
1Z65 - Lime Street to Holyhead
1Z77 - Holyhead to Lime Street

 

[FrodshamJnct]

This is a photo I’ve seen of (apparently) one of the last scheduled freight services before the curve was closed (in the 90s?). Anyone any more info/which loco this is?

 

[driver_m]

There was scheduled freight that actually ran over the route as a one way line. Vauxhall trialled Astra’s going to Garston , then on to Dagenham on a set of otherwise empty wagons around 1999. Trouble unloading them with them facing the wrong way at their destination the reason given for not continuing with it.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

There was scheduled freight that actually ran over the route as a one way line. Vauxhall trialled Astra’s going to Garston , then on to Dagenham on a set of otherwise empty wagons around 1999. Trouble unloading them with them facing the wrong way at their destination the reason given for not continuing with it.

Interesting thanks. Not sure when the above photo was taken but looks earlier than 99 I think.

 

[driver_m]

Mid to late 80s. Looking at those ford Escort vans.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

A bit of freight heading up and down during the Acton Grange work. Log trains to Chirk and sand trains to Encirc at Elton are both traversing the curve.

 

[gazzaa2]

The Manchester’s will mostly go to Bangor.

Llandudno will be connected to Liverpool as will Shrewsbury (Cardiff every other hour).

The Birmingham / South Wales to Holyhead’s much as now but with an enhanced WAG service.

That'll need at least 4 cars once up and running. In the meantime it can get by with 2.

 

[nedchester]

That'll need at least 4 cars once up and running. In the meantime it can get by with 2.

Yes, Chester to Liverpool with two sets splitting and joining at Chester.

 

[frodshamfella]

Ive used the service a number of times now from Frodsham to Lime Street, its very heartening to see a decent amount of passengers boarding at Frodsham.

 

[andy35554]

Here's the steam charter that travelled over the curve both ways on Sunday 21st July

the return leg it was nearly dark but sounds awesome struggling up the hill

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I’d imagine it is busy this morning as an alternative route to Crewe via Runcorn.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Does anyone have any idea why the Tfw Chester to Liverpool over the curve is so painfully slow.

The journey could easily be done in 10 minut4s less than currently done.

Trundles through most of the journey for no apparent reason, coupd easily put its foot down.

First couple of times I thought it was due to being stuck behind something or something similar. But now I have done it quote a few times it seems to be timed this slow

I

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Does anyone have any idea why the Tfw Chester to Liverpool over the curve is so painfully slow.

The journey could easily be done in 10 minut4s less than currently done.

Trundles through most of the journey for no apparent reason, coupd easily put its foot down.

First couple of times I thought it was due to being stuck behind something or something similar. But now I have done it quote a few times it seems to be timed this slow

I

I think the speed limit is 20 at the Frodsham Junction end of the curve, so might explain it, and only gets up to 40 toward the Runcorn end.

 

[Eccles1983]

Leaving Frodsham is towards a red protecting the junction. It clears on approach.

20mph speed across the junction, normally met with a single yellow before the next junction. You are then attempting to weave in-between Virgin and London Midlands.

The line is a success, hopefully they add another station at beechwood to take advantage of the slow line speed and unlock a huge market towards Liverpool/Chester.

 

[driver_m]

I think the speed limit is 20 at the Frodsham Junction end of the curve, so might explain it, and only gets up to 40 toward the Runcorn end.

That’s it in a nutshell.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The route is not that fast, except between Runcorn and Speke.
It could be slower still if they go slow line from Speke and stop at more stations.
Somewhere I've seen an NR statement that the route spec at Halton is the same as before the upgrade (it's still jointed track).
Civitys should improve things when they arrive.
If anything, the new Northern service to Leeds is even slower, considering it mostly omits Helsby, Frodsham and Runcorn East.
In that case, the 40 at Helsby is a bit of a drag.
Arrival at Chester and Wavertree-Liverpool is always painfully slow for all services.

 

[driver_m]

There’s also some fairly hefty penalties by being run on the down slow at Ditton. 20 crossover as opposed to 80 staying fast. A 50 followed very quickly by a 30 at Hale. Back to 75, with a 50 at Speke Neutral, 65 on the curve, followed by a short 75 with another 30 at West Allerton and a pointless 75 with an immediate warning for a 30 at Wavertree Jn which it then doesn’t go back above. Even the Up Slow is quicker. It is mostly 75 bar the curve and the two ends.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Ok....but still, Virgin can do lime street to runcorn in 15 mins, is missing out parkway and a fast line enough to save 8 minutes on that short journey.

This isn't me arguing, just genuinely interested.

 

[frodshamfella]

I have used this service quite a bit now, and ive found it pretty fast, certainly on the Runcorn - Lime Street section where it really picks up speed. I don't feel its too slow.on the curve apart from when it joins Frodsham Junction.
Im pretty satisfied. The main thing ive noticed is , it seems to be on time. When ive used Acton Bridge to Lime Street delays.and cancellations are not uncommon..

 

[Eccles1983]

Ok....but still, Virgin can do lime street to runcorn in 15 mins, is missing out parkway and a fast line enough to save 8 minutes on that short journey.

This isn't me arguing, just genuinely interested.

A pendelino is faster than a DMU. I'm not sure what else needs to be said about it really.

Also the TfW if not held up leaving lime Street gets to parkway 3-4 mins early. There lies your difference.