Harrasment

[Tibbs]

Brilliant. Welcome to 'not my fault' Britain 2013.

Indeed, the care of children used to be taken far more seriously.

 

[Flamingo]

I would expect the taxi driver to take him home, then bang on the door and ask his parents to pay. Or, drive him to the nearest police station and drop him off there, logging with the Police the debt owed. Then claim it off his him / his parents.

Like it or not, people under 18 must be treated differently because they're not adults. If you don't like it, feel free to lobby your MP to reduce the age of majority.

What do you think the age of majority should be?

I would then expect the parents to say "Sod off, we didn't ask you to take him home". It's not the ground that teenagers pick up their attitudes from.

you have a very idealistic view of life...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed, the care of children used to be taken far more seriously.

Yep, when they were down a coalmine or up a chimney, at least their parents knew where they were...

 

[londiscape]

I would expect the taxi driver to take him home, then bang on the door and ask his parents to pay. Or, drive him to the nearest police station and drop him off there, logging with the Police the debt owed. Then claim it off his him / his parents.

Like it or not, people under 18 must be treated differently because they're not adults. If you don't like it, feel free to lobby your MP to reduce the age of majority.

What do you think the age of majority should be?

Right - at which point the taxi driver will be told to f&£k off by the parents under threat of physical violence.

Your point stands if you're in a nice country area where the stigma of dishonesty is still in effect - ie whispers around the village 'so and so got caught trying to dodge his train fare, how utterly ghastly, what must the parents be teaching him' etc. etc, we won't be inviting their sort to the next wine and pheasant party etc.

But the concept of personal responsibility for one's actions has disappeared in the city - it's always the Gummint's fault, the Schools fault, never the scheming brat of a child or the negligent parents. And this is not a class thing, the same abhorrent attitude I see displayed by both the richest and the poorest.

In echo of previous poster - Welcome to Britain 2013.

 

[Tibbs]

Right - at which point the taxi driver will be told to f&£k off by the parents under threat of physical violence.

Your point stands if you're in a nice country area where the stigma of dishonesty is still in effect - ie whispers around the village 'so and so got caught trying to dodge his train fare, how utterly ghastly, what must the parents be teaching him' etc. etc, we won't be inviting their sort to the next wine and pheasant party etc.

But the concept of personal responsibility for one's actions has disappeared in the city - it's always the Gummint's fault, the Schools fault, never the scheming brat of a child or the negligent parents. And this is not a class thing, the same abhorrent attitude I see displayed by both the richest and the poorest.

In echo of previous poster - Welcome to Britain 2013.

And as I said before, children are defined as those under 18 and are treated differently in the eyes of the law. If you want to change it, lobby your mp.

But don't let that get in the way of your diatribe.

 

[londiscape]

And as I said before, children are defined as those under 18 and are treated differently in the eyes of the law. If you want to change it, lobby your mp.

But don't let that get in the way of your diatribe.

With respect, the age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10 yrs old. Therefore technically anyone over that age could be prosecuted under RORA (a criminal statute), if the requirements of the offence are met.

Unless there is an exemption specific under this statute for under 18's (genuinely asking, I don't know)

 

[Gricerjo]

If he was 17, then you did owe him a duty of care, and you evidently failed that.

Your duties don't get put to one side just because you don't like someone.

Whether as an ex conductor I "liked" a passenger or not is irrelevant. He simply did not have a valid ticket or the means to pay. As to his age, he made no refeence to his being 17 at the time. Indeed, the tattoos, stubble and can of super strength cider he was swigging from when asked to present a ticket indicated he was a little older.

 

[Tibbs]

With respect, the age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10 yrs old. Therefore technically anyone over that age could be prosecuted under RORA (a criminal statute), if the requirements of the offence are met.

Unless there is an exemption specific under this statute for under 18's (genuinely asking, I don't know)

How does the age of criminal responsibility affect the duty of care a TOC has?

 

[Flamingo]

Duty of care is to passengers who have paid for their fare. The only duty a TOC has to carry anybody else is not to deposit anybody in an unmanned station.

Unpaid Fare Notices MAY be issued, at the discretion of the Guard/ATE, or the passenger may be told to leave the train at a location where SILK payment may be arranged.

BTP may be involved by staff, or indeed if the passenger feels they are vulnerable they may contact BTP themselves (and see what happens).

We are not and do not act In Loco Parentis


You seem to be ignoring my posts, Tibbs. What are you finding difficult to deal with about them?

 

[jon0844]

I expect Tibbs is lucky enough to live somewhere that is shielded from the rather nastier realties of life.

Don't get me wrong - I'd rather be in Tibbs' world, but that isn't going to happen until we deal with the problems, rather than dispute their existence.

 

[Gricerjo]

I have to agree and find it a little disappointing that on this and other sites, a rather laissez faire attitude to ticketless travel and even down-right fare evasion is shared by some fellow rail enthusiasts.

Travelling without a ticket (assuming one had the opportunity to buy one before boarding) is simply wrong as is wilfully presenting a credit or debit card for payment knowing full well it will be declined.

I would hazard a guess based on over heard conversations, the number of unstaffed stations and those where the barriers seem to be always open that the fare dodgers who are caught are merely the tip of the iceberg and the industry suffers significant revenue losses. This does not lead to a cut in dividend for the TOC’s shareholders or a cut in their directors’ salaries, but yet higher fares for passengers who do pay.

 

[34D]

Do people still have wine & pheasant parties?

 

[londiscape]

How does the age of criminal responsibility affect the duty of care a TOC has?

It doesn't. However, it would mean that a nasty little scroate could get arrested by BTP (at the station at which he was thrown off) for deliberate and intentional fare evasion contrary to s5 RORA and locked up in the cells pending a criminal charge.

However, given that BTP probably have more important things to do than forcibly remediate the poor attitudes of some of our modern young, I will concede that the likelihood of this actually happening is about the same as the likelihood of receiving a welcome response from the parents of said scroate if you were to rock up at their door demanding payment for their offspring's fare evasion.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do people still have wine & pheasant parties?

Haha fair point, they probably don't! I just chose it as a metaphor for what I imagine nice law abiding village folk tend to do for social interaction, I accept it' probably inaccurate!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I expect Tibbs is lucky enough to live somewhere that is shielded from the rather nastier realties of life.

Don't get me wrong - I'd rather be in Tibbs' world, but that isn't going to happen until we deal with the problems, rather than dispute their existence.

Agreed - and the way you put it comes across as much more reasonable and level-headed than me, apologies, having had to put up with some of these obnoxious kids on a daily basis in the past few years has somewhat reduced my patience and tolerance.

 

[34D]

Wine and stilton evening would be believable.

 

[185]

Wine and stilton evening would be believable.

Bleurgh.

Port and Stilton, surely

 

[Deerfold]

Bleurgh.

Port and Stilton, surely

Well Port is a fortified wine.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Right - at which point the taxi driver will be told to f&£k off by the parents under threat of physical violence.

Your point stands if you're in a nice country area where the stigma of dishonesty is still in effect - ie whispers around the village 'so and so got caught trying to dodge his train fare, how utterly ghastly, what must the parents be teaching him' etc. etc, we won't be inviting their sort to the next wine and pheasant party etc.

But the concept of personal responsibility for one's actions has disappeared in the city - it's always the Gummint's fault, the Schools fault, never the scheming brat of a child or the negligent parents. And this is not a class thing, the same abhorrent attitude I see displayed by both the richest and the poorest.

In echo of previous poster - Welcome to Britain 2013.

Aha.
City bad. Village good.
Sounds a very prejudiced point of view.