Has on train entertainment had its day?

[Joe Paxton]

The cost of adding state-of-the-art on board entertainment systems on the next generation of trains would be more than offset in the construction and maintenance cost savings of foregoing windows. Device screens are peoples' windows onto the world these days and it's time the railway caught up with that. Clear on-board PIS displays can indicate which station is next, and said displays can also carry useful advertising for those times people look up from their personal device screens.

This would also solve any legacy aesthetic issues such as the appearance of the trackside.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I think not only have onboard systems had their day, so has WiFi really. A lot of people already have unlimited data and that number will grow. The rest just download before leaving home. Car systems are now set to stream Spotify, Netflix, Prime, iPlayer, etc so train passengers expect the same selection they can get in a car. Not a limited choice selected by the TOC. in their day, these things were cutting edge, but those days have passed. Remember 390s and Voyagers having buttons on the armrest and you could plug headphones in!

 

[Jimini]

Remember 390s and Voyagers having buttons on the armrest and you could plug headphones in!

They're still there on Voyagers -- the little control panel and headphone socket between the two seats!

 

[Egg Centric]

The cost of adding state-of-the-art on board entertainment systems on the next generation of trains would be more than offset in the construction and maintenance cost savings of foregoing windows. Device screens are peoples' windows onto the world these days and it's time the railway caught up with that. Clear on-board PIS displays can indicate which station is next, and said displays can also carry useful advertising for those times people look up from their personal device screens.

This would also solve any legacy aesthetic issues such as the appearance of the trackside.

I like how you think but don’t think you’re going far enough. Instead of hiding a relatively small number of deficiencies in this manner why not pump a carefully metered dose of carfentanyl into the coach as the train leaves the station? This will not only save the TOC from needing to even provide the on board entertainment, but the passengers will be so disoriented upon arrival that they won’t clock any delay to the service, thus allowing the journey to be made by barge yet still avoiding any delay repay expenditure.

 

[MCSHF007]

"The railway" needs to resolve all current "Faraday's Cage" issues (specifically for 220/221/390). The problem would then pretty much "go away".

 

[jon0844]

4G is, in theory, better than many people already get on home broadband (in theory 4G is 100Mbps max), albeit reception dependent - this factor is unlikely to change in the near future, even in a 5G world, but the difference will be in the capability of devices to "get ahead" and buffer to overcome the "gaps" in connectivity.

Bizarrely, this works in favour of the "heavy" use of things like video streaming, which might be what some travellers are after, but doesn't work out as well for tasks such as remote desktop, video conferencing etc where it's more "realtime".

4G can offer gigabit speeds, but the fastest I've had is 505Mbps, which was actually on a Jubilee Line platform (this was on EE BTW) - which shows that if and when Network Rail and the likes of Cellnex work to improve railway coverage, Wi-Fi won't be anywhere near as important as it might be today for certain users who can't tether a laptop or tablet, or use a network poorly covered on a route.

But good 4G and 5G connectivity will of course boost the quality of the onboard system, so Wi-Fi won't go away IMO.

And when you use the onboard system, there's no reason it can't still host local content, as well as providing localised content about the train service, onboard food and drink ordering etc.

What I think people will want more than anything is a means to charge a device, and perhaps hold it in a tilted position to allow movie watching on the move. Some fold down tables now have grooves for this, while there's also Qi charging on some stock (like the newly refreshed 390s).

 

[omnicity4659]

Virgin's BEAM was the best offering on the railway in my opinion, they actually provided full series of shows to watch, along with movies that were popular at the time. They regularly rotated what was being shown too.

Other operators used an existing entertainment provider (VUER on National Express, Avanti Media, TPE Exstream, LumoGo TV etc were all the same, just branded differently), it had a poor range of things to watch, often only one episode of a series, rarely updated apart from magazines and newspapers and wasn't suitable at all for long journeys.

 

[800001]

LNER are trialling ‘Edgecasting’, it is on 3 sets at the moment and it is ITV Hub they are testing, with more networks joining soon.

It is on 801217, 801221 and 801229.

 

[sor]

I've never found on train wifi to be particularly good - despite them apparently having multiple radios across all networks & external antennas for good reception, it's generally worse than if I tether.

I get a large part of it is NIMBYism, where the mobile networks can't get masts near the line even if they wanted to. 5G won't solve that, just as 4G can do amazingly well under the right conditions, 5G needs the same. A possible angle for OneWeb perhaps, won't work in tunnels but it'll work everywhere else.

SWR had SWRStream which was silently discontinued fairly recently due to low usage. Can't say I'd used it in the past personally.

I remember the days of VOLO TV on FGW which was simply rubbish...

It was also quite expensive considering - was it a deal where FGW got it "for free" and the company expected to make their money back on usage?

I think I only ever used the map feature - when the screens were working at all

 

[jon0844]

There has always been a limit to what Network Rail could do, given their ability to install equipment without the same planning constraints. As such, normal networks couldn't share or it might have seen networks getting permission that local NIMBYs would have wanted to refuse (even now, when everyone uses mobiles, they still hold up sites being built to serve rural areas and add capacity to busy locations).

There were likely concerns about mixing with safety critical equipment too.

I suspect GB Rail will be quite happy to do away with all of that and let private operators run cables alongside railway infrastructure and share masts.

 

[RailWonderer]

Beam was very good, the only time I found an on board entertainment service fast enough to use with good variety of programmes and games. LNR's loop was disappointing and slow.
I mainly read books or magazines or listen to music, or watch the view and seldom browse on my phone. Too many screens these days.

Also this counts as on board entertainment but trains in the days of old used to have a rack of newspapers and magazines. Virgin used to offer the Daily Mail (I know it's a rag but it counts) before fast internet.

 

[Techniquest]

West Midlands trains had TV in some carriages, annoying and unnecessary........

Oh my yes, I remember those, annoying is right! Same for the TVs on Heathrow Express, they weren't terribly useful on the 332s and I can't be sure now (it was late evening after a flight, and all I wanted to do was get to the hotel) whether or not the 387s had them when I finally got on a HeX 387 in March.

They're still there on Voyagers -- the little control panel and headphone socket between the two seats!

Those things generate a nice bit of nostalgia for me, I used to use them quite often when on a Voyager ride. It might not have been for long, but it was helpful on the days when I didn't have any AA batteries with charge in them. Without those, my CD player was a bit useless!

WiFi on trains, quite honestly I don't bother. I remembered it should be available on a 172 I was on yesterday, but I didn't bother and just used 4G. I get 16GB a month of data and I rarely use even a quarter of that. It was 12GB, but when I had to restart a rolling bundle on Three PAYG it had gone to 16GB. Not bad value for £10, fair play to that. I'd be happy with paying less for just 5GB as that's all I want, but I'll take that bundle for £10, in this day and age that's not bad.

On-train entertainment systems, I've tried a few of them now. Me and Chiltern WiFi don't get on no matter what I try, GWR's WiFi occasionally worked and I don't bother with either. Once upon a time it was great WiFi on TfW, but they introduced restrictions on it and it just made sense to stop using it. I'd rather the power sockets worked properly on trains, which in my experience is not too common sadly.

LNWR and its Loop system, when it lets me into it can be OK but to be honest, more often than not, even on a Birmingham to London journey, I'm on my mobile data and doing other stuff. Quite honestly, I forget it is even a thing!

National Express and that Vuer system, I think I made it work once, or I did for a brief time then it gave up on me. On a coach where I was one of the only few people on it, so it wasn't as if it was overloaded! All other modern day systems I don't bother with at all, never tried Beam on the West Coast, not even slightly interested in the trial system that LNER are doing (it's ITV, oh my no, I'd rather take my TV or other device to a recycling centre) and I suspect most people are the same. I spend way too much looking at screens these days, so the time spent doing almost anything else is seriously welcome.

Now if the TOCs focused on providing working power sockets, that would be a worthwhile investment. Too many times I've been on a train without a working socket, it's not really acceptable in the modern day to have non-working sockets!

 

[Matt_pool]

If you can get connected to the WiFi on Northern and TfW trains it's really slow, so isn't worth bothering with. I'd rather look out the window anyway!

 

[AlastairFraser]

If you can get connected to the WiFi on Northern and TfW trains it's really slow, so isn't worth bothering with. I'd rather look out the window anyway!

It depends where on Northern, because there's black spots in quite a few places due to geographic factors, but it often gets me connectivity in places where my mobile data (SMARTY, uses 3 towers) won't at all.
It's fast enough to use Spotify and read the forum, yes, but not to do any serious work.
Given the nature and pricing of most of their services, that's not bad.

 

[Peter0124]

I have worked on EE 4G pretty much the whole length of the WCML on more than one occasion. Streaming would be a little jumpy but the signal was fine.

It seems to work better on 390s than 397s in my experience

 

[AlastairFraser]

As for on train entertainment, I think there's still a place for it as a small addition to the train WiFi portal, given mobile data is patchy on many areas of the network.
But no huge physical infrastructure a la VOLO TV on FGW/GWR is justified, yes.

 

[bishdunster]

Is it not possible for the railways to offer all their masts to the mobile operators for suitable fees???????

 

[Energy]

Is it not possible for the railways to offer all their masts to the mobile operators for suitable fees???????

Or to make an open access network which they can all use? See London Underground.

 

[XAM2175]

Is it not possible for the railways to offer all their masts to the mobile operators for suitable fees???????

It's generally held to be difficult to use the GSM-R infrastructure, for a number of reasons:

1. Some towers have been erected in places that commercial towers would probably not be permitted;
2. Some towers have been erected in places that require co-ordination with the railway in order to gain access for technicians; and,
3. All GSM-R towers carry safety-critical infrastructure that will only become more important with the further roll-out of ERTMS, making it undesirable to introduce the possibility of disruption.

Or to make an open access network which they can all use? See London Underground.

This is theoretically possible should anybody want to pay for it!

 

[Energy]

This is theoretically possible should anybody want to pay for it!

I'm sure some companies will be willing to pay Network Rail to let them do it in some parts of the network.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

If you can get connected to the WiFi on Northern and TfW trains it's really slow, so isn't worth bothering with. I'd rather look out the window anyway!

Exactly this! There's nothing you can see on your phone screen that's anywhere near as interesting as the beauty of the English countryside you pass through on a train journey.

The only time I find WiFi on a train useful is if my train is delayed and I need to know if I'll make an onward connection. I genuinely feel sorry for people who spend their train journeys obsessively starting at their phones, feeling that they have to spend every waking minute being "entertained".

 

[Skiddaw]

Exactly this! There's nothing you can see on your phone screen that's anywhere near as interesting as the beauty of the English countryside you pass through on a train journey.

The only time I find WiFi on a train useful is if my train is delayed and I need to know if I'll make an onward connection. I genuinely feel sorry for people who spend their train journeys obsessively starting at their phones, feeling that they have to spend every waking minute being "entertained".

Spot on! It's exactly the same for me.

I wonder what the movie options would be on an Avanti train in view of their current issues? I keep being reminded of the in-flight air disaster movie in 'Airplane'

 

[Jimini]

Spot on! It's exactly the same for me.

I wonder what the movie options would be on an Avanti train in view of their current issues? I keep being reminded of the in-flight air disaster movie in 'Airplane'

Just don’t have the fish if you’re in first class

 

[Skiddaw]

Just don’t have the fish if you’re in first class

 

[London Trains]

Virgin's BEAM was excellent, it had a wide range of films and wasn't particularly difficult to use. Also makes the journey seem like something more special, similar to long haul flights (especially with the Virgin brand).

I remember using it on most journeys when it was dark outside (so nothing to see out of the window), and the Euston to Birmingham timing was the perfect length for most films

Would assume the inspiration came from Virgin Atlantic, and they did very well for a system that uses our own screens as opposed to the seat back screens on planes.

Other TOCs systems are mostly quite bad, so they should probably just improve 4G/5G connectivity instead.

 

[Tester]

Just don’t have the fish if you’re in first class

On the current menu you'll be perfectly safe

 

[Kilopylae]

The cost of adding state-of-the-art on board entertainment systems on the next generation of trains would be more than offset in the construction and maintenance cost savings of foregoing windows. Device screens are peoples' windows onto the world these days and it's time the railway caught up with that. Clear on-board PIS displays can indicate which station is next, and said displays can also carry useful advertising for those times people look up from their personal device screens.

This would also solve any legacy aesthetic issues such as the appearance of the trackside.

Why not skip this altogether and simply provide passengers with (mandatory) headsets? Screens are increasingly an outdated legacy technology in the face of VR/metaverse anyway.

 

[py_megapixel]

The cost of adding state-of-the-art on board entertainment systems on the next generation of trains would be more than offset in the construction and maintenance cost savings of foregoing windows. Device screens are peoples' windows onto the world these days and it's time the railway caught up with that. Clear on-board PIS displays can indicate which station is next, and said displays can also carry useful advertising for those times people look up from their personal device screens.

This would also solve any legacy aesthetic issues such as the appearance of the trackside.

Why not skip this altogether and simply provide passengers with (mandatory) headsets? Screens are increasingly an outdated legacy technology in the face of VR/metaverse anyway.

I really hope you're joking, both of you...

 

[Davester50]

Those Volo coaches where hideous really but quite revolutionary back in the day.

Nah, that's revolutionary!
Photo from Spannerman37025 on flickr of Nightrider with TVs

Not to forget the experimental HST Mark 3s with entertainment. Still probably got the naff InterCity branded earphones I was given!

LNER are trialling ‘Edgecasting’, it is on 3 sets at the moment and it is ITV Hub they are testing

Of all the "hubs" to chose, they've gone for the worst!

 

[XAM2175]

There's nothing you can see on your phone screen that's anywhere near as interesting as the beauty of the English countryside you pass through on a train journey.

Other countrysides are also available