Have electric vehicles been "oversold" to the detriment of public transport, walking and cycling?

[Bletchleyite]

It is only three, max four hours, on a motorway. Hardly excessive, especially on a lightly trafficked motorway.
What is the maximum driving time that you consider safe?

Personally I will only drive for about 2 hours max without a break for the loo and a coffee or similar. So for a journey of that length I would stop either once for longer or two shorter stops.

There is a very good reason movies are typically around 90 minutes to 2 hours long, and why the same applies to school lessons and university lectures, seminars etc - that tends to be the limit of people properly paying attention.

 

[Factotum]

£249 a month
£12.50 a month for 1000 miles
£0 tax
£0 MOT for 3 years

Does your car cost that little to run? Really?

At that price leasing companies general charge at least three months upfront and limit your mileage to 5000pa

MY CAR
Over five years at 5000 miles a year (far more than I do)

Capital cost of £3500 amortised over five years £700 a year
Loss of interest (at an optimistic 2%) £70 a year
Tax £165 per year
Service/MoT £250 per year
Tyres (one set in five years) £40 a year.
Petrol (at 11 miles per litre) £600 a year

£1825 per year or about £152 per month. So the answer is yes. And the car belongs to me not a leasing company so I don't have to bother about the odd ding or scratch.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At that price leasing companies general charge at least three months upfront and limit your mileage to 5000pa

MY CAR
Over five years at 5000 miles a year (far more than I do)

Capital cost of £3500 amortised over five years £700 a year
Loss of interest (at an optimistic 2%) £70 a year
Tax £165 per year
Service/MoT £250 per year
Tyres (one set in five years) £40 a year.
Petrol (at 11 miles per litre) £600 a year

£1825 per year or about £152 per month. So the answer is yes. And the car belongs to me not a leasing company so I don't have to bother about the odd ding or scratch.

It sounds to me like you buy older cars and drive a very low mileage. Thus for now you would be best served, I think, by a small or medium-sized petrol (not diesel) car. EVs are unlikely to be relevant to your personal use case for maybe ten years or so.

This doesn't mean EVs are bad, it just means you probably shouldn't buy one yet.

 

[reddragon]

It sounds to me like you buy older cars and drive a very low mileage. Thus for now you would be best served, I think, by a small or medium-sized petrol (not diesel) car. EVs are unlikely to be relevant to your personal use case for maybe ten years or so.

This doesn't mean EVs are bad, it just means you probably shouldn't buy one yet.

Bang on.

Low annual mileage older cars where odd breakdowns are not an issue are fine unless repair bills get excessive.

When I had my last diesel I spoke to the dealer about high maintenance costs. His advice was to never buy a diesel ever again as they now only suited drivers who only did long trips and rarely drove in town or too much traffic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

His advice was to never buy a diesel ever again as they now only suited drivers who only did long trips and rarely drove in town or too much traffic.

Yes, that's correct, the DPFs clog up and you get sooting up elsewhere in the engine if you don't have a decent fast blast on a motorway or similar frequently enough. For tootling around town, a small petrol is best if you want an ICE car.

 

[Roast Veg]

When I had my last diesel I spoke to the dealer about high maintenance costs. His advice was to never buy a diesel ever again as they now only suited drivers who only did long trips and rarely drove in town or too much traffic.

Not least because of particulate emissions in urban areas, which diesels are worse for than petrol vehicles.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not least because of particulate emissions in urban areas, which diesels are worse for than petrol vehicles.

That too (and less likely you'll be banned from urban areas). Diesels are good motorway cruisers, really, not "pootling around town" cars.

 

[DustyBin]

£249 a month
£12.50 a month for 1000 miles
£0 tax
£0 MOT for 3 years

Does your car cost that little to run? Really?

No mine costs a fortune to own and run in comparison. That's not the point I was making though. You need to find £2k deposit and £249 a month for the entry level spec of what is an entry level EV. I strongly suspect that as it's an MG the depreciation will be be appalling as well (something often overlooked when entering a PCP agreement). Actually the optional final payment tells the story in that regard. The point I was making is that the technology is still expensive; a similar car with an IC engine would be nowhere near £30k and whilst you obviously need to factor in running costs the on-the-road price offsets the savings to a certain extent.

 

[trebor79]

No mine costs a fortune to own and run in comparison. That's not the point I was making though. You need to find £2k deposit and £249 a month for the entry level spec of what is an entry level EV. I strongly suspect that as it's an MG the depreciation will be be appalling as well (something often overlooked when entering a PCP agreement).

Why would you care about depreciation on a PCP? So long as you take reasonable care of the care you aren't carrying that risk.

 

[DustyBin]

Why would you care about depreciation on a PCP? So long as you take reasonable care of the care you aren't carrying that risk.

Because you may wish to trade the vehicle in at the end of the term, or sell it privately and settle in full. It amazes me how many people are willing to walk away from a PCP with nothing to show for it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because you may wish to trade the vehicle in at the end of the term, or sell it privately and settle in full. It amazes me how many people are willing to walk away from a PCP with nothing to show for it.

TBH I would never use a PCP (unless possibly it was 0% so I couldn't afford not to), it strikes me as mostly only having disadvantages and few advantages other than the monthly figure itself. I prefer unsecured personal loans. That way it is genuinely mine and how I treat it is up to me.

 

[Factotum]

It sounds to me like you buy older cars and drive a very low mileage. Thus for now you would be best served, I think, by a small or medium-sized petrol (not diesel) car. EVs are unlikely to be relevant to your personal use case for maybe ten years or so.

This doesn't mean EVs are bad, it just means you probably shouldn't buy one yet.

A conclusion that I have already reached

 

[reddragon]

No mine costs a fortune to own and run in comparison. That's not the point I was making though. You need to find £2k deposit and £249 a month for the entry level spec of what is an entry level EV. I strongly suspect that as it's an MG the depreciation will be be appalling as well (something often overlooked when entering a PCP agreement). Actually the optional final payment tells the story in that regard. The point I was making is that the technology is still expensive; a similar car with an IC engine would be nowhere near £30k and whilst you obviously need to factor in running costs the on-the-road price offsets the savings to a certain extent.

So why wait? You can do £0 deposit and pay for higher miles.

 

[Factotum]

TBH I would never use a PCP (unless possibly it was 0% so I couldn't afford not to), it strikes me as mostly only having disadvantages and few advantages other than the monthly figure itself. I prefer unsecured personal loans. That way it is genuinely mine and how I treat it is up to me.

That is my opinion also. Excess mileage charges and high charges for minor damage do take the gloss off what look like very attractive PCPs
And whilst I am unlikely to do it I cherish the freedom to paint my car sky blue pink with yellow polka dots. Or, more seriously to fit a tow bar.

 

[DustyBin]

TBH I would never use a PCP (unless possibly it was 0% so I couldn't afford not to), it strikes me as mostly only having disadvantages and few advantages other than the monthly figure itself. I prefer unsecured personal loans. That way it is genuinely mine and how I treat it is up to me.

It's a bit of a minefield to be honest, you can lose out if you don't fully understand how it works (which seemingly a lot of people don't). The advantage it has over a personal loan is the amount of finance available. If you want a car costing say £50k and want to pay £10k deposit you'll very likely struggle to get an unsecured personal loan for the remaining £40k, whereas you should be able to enter into a PCP agreement albeit with a hefty monthly payment. There are often competitive interest rates available if buying new, buying second hand however is a different matter. It's not uncommon for people to buy a car on PCP and then buy the car outright at the end of the term using a personal loan; this tends to apply to cars bought by enthusiasts rather than run of the mill daily transport though.

So why wait? You can do £0 deposit and pay for higher miles.

Because it's an MG5.... I'd save a fortune but it's not a like-for-like comparison.

 

[py_megapixel]

People just need to accept that they need to purchase a car that they can actually afford. If you can't get a loan for it it's a good sign you should be looking for something much cheaper.

(And I am absolutely not speaking from a position of great wealth here)

 

[DustyBin]

People just need to accept that they need to purchase a car that they can actually afford. If you can't get a loan for it it's a good sign you should be looking for something much cheaper.

(And I am absolutely not speaking from a position of great wealth here)

That's the point though; they can afford it on PCP.

 

[paul1609]

Not least because of particulate emissions in urban areas, which diesels are worse for than petrol vehicles.

That's not really true anymore. Euro 6 Diesels (post 2016) have broadly the same particulate limits as Petrol Engines. Modern Particulate filters need a period in excess of 40 mph for 10 mins to regenerate. Road transport is not the major contributor to particulate pollution if you want to improve air quality you'd be much better off banning log burners and gas boilers in urban areas.

 

[The Ham]

Do you drive those 220 miles in one go without taking a decent break?

If so, please don't. An EV will make you safer for others on the road by forcing you to take that break.

220 miles is a long way. It's 20 miles further than Manchester to London by road. Nobody should drive that without at least half an hour's worth of breaks in there somewhere. And that's enough for a charge.

Between me and my wife, yes we drive it without long stops (often just pulling into a lay-by and swapping over).

So far there's limited charging points along the A303 between Stonehenge and Exeter which don't involve a bit of a drive away from the main route, which would further add to the delay of charging. Along the A30 between Exeter and Cornwall isn't that much better.

However at nearly 90 miles between Exeter and Stonehenge that pretty much rules out anything with less than 150 miles on the range at 80% charge.

Whilst going via the M4/M5 would add more charging locations it would also often add quite a bit more journey time.

 

[reddragon]

Between me and my wife, yes we drive it without long stops (often just pulling into a lay-by and swapping over).

So far there's limited charging points along the A303 between Stonehenge and Exeter which don't involve a bit of a drive away from the main route, which would further add to the delay of charging. Along the A30 between Exeter and Cornwall isn't that much better.

However at nearly 90 miles between Exeter and Stonehenge that pretty much rules out anything with less than 150 miles on the range at 80% charge.

Whilst going via the M4/M5 would add more charging locations it would also often add quite a bit more journey time.

There's safe rapids at Sutton Scotney, Amesbury and Wincanton on the A303

 

[The Ham]

There's safe rapids at Sutton Scotney, Amesbury and Wincanton on the A303

Of those three one is East of Stonehenge, one is at Stonehenge and one is between Exeter and Stonehenge. This just confirms the point that there's limited charging between Exeter and Stonehenge.

 

[reddragon]

Of those three one is East of Stonehenge, one is at Stonehenge and one is between Exeter and Stonehenge. This just confirms the point that there's limited charging between Exeter and Stonehenge.

Many EVs can do London to Plymouth on a single charge so why does this matter?

Further west there's 2 at A303 cafe and Honiton as well

 

[Bald Rick]

Re on street parking ... I saw this today on a residential street in north London. Seems perfectly acceptable and easy.

Also, that was the third Peugeot e-208 I’ve seen in the last few days, having seen none beforehand.

 

[Ediswan]

Re on street parking ... I saw this today on a residential street in north London. Seems perfectly acceptable and easy.

Personally, I would mak the cable a far more conspicuous colour. It is long enough that it could be a trip hazard.

 

[DelW]

Personally, I would mak the cable a far more conspicuous colour. It is long enough that it could be a trip hazard.

Presumably a manufacturer choice - my charging cable is bright yellow.

 

[gg1]

Personally, I would mak the cable a far more conspicuous colour. It is long enough that it could be a trip hazard.

I'd go a step further and require public chargers to have illuminated cables, and yes I am being serious. The power requirement would be negligible and worthwhile for public safety.

 

[Domh245]

I'd go a step further and require public chargers to have illuminated cables, and yes I am being serious. The power requirement would be negligible and worthwhile for public safety.

It looks like the charger in question is a "bring your own cable" arrangement, which makes sense compared to leaving a few metres of cable on the end of it at all times, cluttering up the pavement further. It would be useful if the charger had a more obvious way of warning that it was plugged in, but I honestly cannot say I've seen many people walk along between a lampost (at least, that close to pavement edge) and parked cars unless they were getting in the car - so not sure how big of an issue it is?

 

[Meerkat]

Re on street parking ... I saw this today on a residential street in north London. Seems perfectly acceptable and easy.

Also, that was the third Peugeot e-208 I’ve seen in the last few days, having seen none beforehand.

There isn’t a lamp post for every car though. I reckon in my road there are probably ten cars per lamppost at least. And would create some cracking neighbour wars about who gets the spaces!

 

[AM9]

There isn’t a lamp post for every car though. I reckon in my road there are probably ten cars per lamppost at least. And would create some cracking neighbour wars about who gets the spaces!

Consider this:
a) vehicles don't have to be charged all the time, (they will be used occasionally)
b) where charger squatting is a problem, a time-related penalty cost could be levied active once the vehicle charging has been completed
c) non-charging parking could be penalised
I'm sure there are other measures that could be legally imposed to control anti-social behaviour on street chargers.

 

[Bald Rick]

There isn’t a lamp post for every car though.

Well of course there isn’t - cars that need plug in charging only make up about 2-3% of the GB car population*. To have installed that much charging infrastructure now would be a colossal waste of money at this time. Far better to spend on the charging infrastructure shortly before it is needed, rather than having it sitting there not earning a return for several years. The point is it can be done, easily.

* New SMMT figures out today, market share of Battery EV registrations in September was 15%. That has doubled in a year.