Have I been overcharged for my excess?

[mm333]

I've never done an over distance-excess before, and I'm not sure I've been charged the correct amount. Can anyone please confirm?

I excessed the return portion of a London-Guiseley SVR so I could continue through to Canterbury.

I was charged £28.70. £18.70 that is the difference between a London-Guiseley SVR and a Canterbury-Guiseley SVR, but I expected, as I was only excessing in one direction, only to be charged half of that.

I was also then charged £10.00 as a "NXEC AP Fee' - which really surprised me as my ticket was a SVR and not a NXEC AP ticket. Is there normally an admin fee for excesses?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[yorkie]

Assuming no railcards and using the old version of Avantix Traveller....

Guisley-London is £76.30.
Guisley-Canterbury is £93.90

Difference = £17.60

Half the difference = £8.80

So it should have been £8.80 last year, so £9-10 now.

I have no idea what is going on with the admin fee.

Where did you get it excessed?

I'd have refused to pay on the basis that the amount being charged is wrong and above the single London - Canterbury fare so you are better off with a new ticket. SDS is about £10 less than what you paid. in fact you can go first class for that!! (although FC on SET is useless).

BTW, St Pancras are good for excesses. GC are also good although last time I saw one issued they had to be given instructions but were willing to do it which is the main thing

 

[mm333]

Thanks for that Yorkie.

I thought it was wrong, but a) I didn't have time to query it, and b) there were only two people on duty - in the Travel Centre at Leeds - and the member of staff who was dealing with me had to ask the other one for help.

Like you, say, an Ally Pally-Canterbury single would have been cheaper.

One letter to Northern coming up.

 

[yorkie]

Why didn't you excess it when you got to London?

They probably get very few requests to overdistance excess at leeds but lots of requests to change AP tickets so they probably got confused (changing an AP ticket would incurr a £10 admin fee and then an excess to whatever quota is available).

Another common one to be overcharged for is changing the route - it should be 50% of the difference but some charge the full difference - but fortunately this is mentioned in NCoC so relatively easy to point that out.

 

[glynn80]

I've never done an over distance-excess before, and I'm not sure I've been charged the correct amount. Can anyone please confirm?

I excessed the return portion of a London-Guiseley SVR so I could continue through to Canterbury.

I was charged £28.70. £18.70 that is the difference between a London-Guiseley SVR and a Canterbury-Guiseley SVR, but I expected, as I was only excessing in one direction, only to be charged half of that.

I was also then charged £10.00 as a "NXEC AP Fee' - which really surprised me as my ticket was a SVR and not a NXEC AP ticket. Is there normally an admin fee for excesses?

Thanks,
Mark

London- Guiseley SVR Rtn £80.80
Canterbury Stations- Guiseley SVR Rtn £99.50

Difference between the two is £18.70
Half the difference is £9.35

If it was one portion normally it is half the difference between the two, so that part may of been issued incorrectly but I have spoken to various people who are competent in fares and have never been able to see this rule written. The admin fee I believe can be charged at ticket office staff's discretion for ticket changes but for an excess, I have never seen the fee charged.

 

[jv3531]

As part of the national conditions of carriage it does state that changes where allowed on that particular ticket can incur an admin charge although there are those that will waver it. You will usually find that this is only charged when tickets are changed involving seat allocations, especially if the ticket has past its normal sell-by date.

As regards excess fares, I too have had problems in the past with this and seems to vary considerably, but all rules for excess fares are contained within the ticket examiners handbook amd should be set out as yorkie stated earlier. One thing to remember with excess tickets though is that you will be upgraded to the ticket available at the time of travel, eg. travelling on a CDR during peak hours would find you upgraded to an SDR or SOR depending on what was available, the same would apply to AP tickets not used on "advertised" trains.

 

[glynn80]

As regards excess fares, I too have had problems in the past with this and seems to vary considerably, but all rules for excess fares are contained within the ticket examiners handbook amd should be set out as yorkie stated earlier. One thing to remember with excess tickets though is that you will be upgraded to the ticket available at the time of travel, eg. travelling on a CDR during peak hours would find you upgraded to an SDR or SOR depending on what was available, the same would apply to AP tickets not used on "advertised" trains.

The excess fare regulations are not held in the Ticket Examiners Handbook- that is to help ticket checking staff to distinguish different sets of tickets etc. It is held within the previous Retail Manuals now "The Manual" on the Online Fares Manual (FRPP) under Excess Fare Regulations (if any staff don't understand excess fares ask them to check there)

 

[jv3531]

Ticket examiners handbooks also contains details of how to excess tickets and the correct methods to adopt with each ticket type and circumstance, eg - off route, overdistance etc - it also contains the railcard discounts allowed and what they can be used with, how to deal with irregualr tickets etc. and refunds.

 

[Robert Carlisle]

Here is a genuine question. Those reading the Issue 385 of Newsrail Express may guess the station involved.

What if the ticket issuing office has made a genuince mistake and issued what is clearly the wrong ticket?

 

[me123]

Like with change in a shop, you should always check before you leave the counter anyway. I don't know what the official stance on this is, but I'd imagine that you'd be charged an admin fee for changing an incorrect ticket, say, a few days later.

 

[yorkie]

Can you give details? It should be resolved at no cost to the customer, surely. The customer can't always check it is correct at the time of issue and customers can't be expected to be experts!

 

[Robert Carlisle]

The current edition of Newsrail Express warns people that Manchester Airport is NOT part of Manchester Stations.

I asked for the correct ticket and was given a Manchester Stations ticket which I assumed was valid.

I was charged an excess. (Piccadilly-MIA)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry I meant to add - I am reliably informed there is a section in the "Manual" - which of course I do not have access to - that is headed "Exceptions To Excess Fares Rules" and that in there it does say that if a Train Company is at fault then an excess should not be charged.

But of course I can't see, that.

 

[glynn80]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry I meant to add - I am reliably informed there is a section in the "Manual" - which of course I do not have access to - that is headed "Exceptions To Excess Fares Rules" and that in there it does say that if a Train Company is at fault then an excess should not be charged.

But of course I can't see, that.

Exceptions to Excess Fare rules

The Excess Fare rules quoted in this section do not apply in the following circumstances:

· In areas where Penalty Fares rules apply these take precedence over Excess Fares rules.
· If your Train Company enforces Byelaw 18.
· Where your Train Company has issued any local instructions in respect of excess fares that supersede the rules in this section.
· If a Train Company is at fault (e.g. train service disruption).
· CIV Regulations. If a passenger holding a through ticket from the Continent, Republic of Ireland or a ticket from London International has been delayed through no fault of their own (e.g. delayed ferry, delay on European railway) and misses a booked service, they should be allowed on the next available service without any excess fare being raised. The ticket should have been endorsed with the reason for the delay or missed connection.

Important notes

Some Train Companies’ instructions allow for discretion to be used in charging the ‘full fare’ (Anytime / Anytime Day) where it is felt that this would unduly penalise customers.


In my opinion the Train Company at fault exception is for situations where the passenger has for example been forced to travel a route due to disruption for which their original ticket is not valid.

It is actually the passengers responsibility that they have a valid ticket for their journey. Obviously you would expect an informed source like a booking office to be able to give you advice on whether or not the ticket is valid but the onus is still on you to have a valid ticket and thus the excess is charged to bring your original ticket in line with a valid ticket. If the booking office had done their original job correctly you would have only paid that fare anyway you aren't being penalised.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Sorry I meant to add - I am reliably informed there is a section in the "Manual" - which of course I do not have access to - that is headed "Exceptions To Excess Fares Rules" and that in there it does say that if a Train Company is at fault then an excess should not be charged.

But of course I can't see, that.

Exceptions to Excess Fare rules

The Excess Fare rules quoted in this section do not apply in the following circumstances:

· In areas where Penalty Fares rules apply these take precedence over Excess Fares rules.

· If your Train Company enforces Byelaw 18.

· Where your Train Company has issued any local instructions in respect of excess fares that supersede the rules in this section.

· If a Train Company is at fault (e.g. train service disruption).

· CIV Regulations. If a passenger holding a through ticket from the Continent, Republic of Ireland or a ticket from London International has been delayed through no fault of their own (e.g. delayed ferry, delay on European railway) and misses a booked service, they should be allowed on the next available service without any excess fare being raised. The ticket should have been endorsed with the reason for the delay or missed connection.

Important notes
Some Train Companies’ instructions allow for discretion to be used in charging the ‘full fare’ (Anytime / Anytime Day) where it is felt that this would unduly penalise customers.

I don't think it means "If you were sold the wrong ticket" because it is your responsibility to check the ticket you have been given and to confirm it is valid for your journey (Condition 21 of the NCoC).

 

[eos]

On the same theme, but slightly different track, can you 'excess' a rover/ranger ticket if you go slightly out of area, or is it just buy a cheap ticket for the bit that isn't covered. Again, same sort of idea, can you excess or upgrade a second class rover/ranger to first class for just one journey ( say the outward or return when its a 100+mile journey...

Thanks for suggestions.

 

[glynn80]

On the same theme, but slightly different track, can you 'excess' a rover/ranger ticket if you go slightly out of area, or is it just buy a cheap ticket for the bit that isn't covered. Again, same sort of idea, can you excess or upgrade a second class rover/ranger to first class for just one journey ( say the outward or return when its a 100+mile journey...

Thanks for suggestions.

No you can only excess Single/Return tickets. You would have to purchase a seperate ticket from the last station within the rover area to your destination. The train need not stop at that last station as the National Rail Conditions of Carriage allow for combinations of tickets where one of the combination is a rover ticket for the train to travel non stop.

 

[dan_atki]

I don't think it means "If you were sold the wrong ticket" because it is your responsibility to check the ticket you have been given and to confirm it is valid for your journey (Condition 21 of the NCoC).

That raises the question, however, of whether the travelling public are meant to know which stations fall into groups. If you asked for a ticket to Manchester Airport and were given one to Manchester Stns it wouldn't ring alarm bells in your head immediately - especially if you hadn't travelled there before.

You'd also expect the ticket office clerk to be competent at their job and as such you're not going to undermine them by saying something like 'are you sure this is valid to Manchester Airport?'.

I know of no location other than fares manuals which specifically tells you that Manchester Stations includes only Victoria, Piccadilly, and Oxford Road (even then I can't guarantee I haven't missed one out!). Obviously, to make matters worse, the Manchester Group in the Routeing Guide includes a different group of stations!

I was charged an excess. (Piccadilly-MIA)

If the booking office had done their original job correctly you would have only paid that fare anyway you aren't being penalised.

I'm not totally sure on how excesses are issued (i.e. what the resulting ticket looks like but I'm assuming the type is 'Excess' and the Origin and Destinations are those of the original ticket?) so as such it would sound like the ticket above is NOT an excess but an additional ticket to complete the journey... In most instances the costs of the tickets are such that: origin-MAN + MAN-MIA > origin-MIA

 

[Robert Carlisle]

I don't think it means "If you were sold the wrong ticket" because it is your responsibility to check the ticket you have been given and to confirm it is valid for your journey (Condition 21 of the NCoC).

I did check the ticket and as far as I was concerned it was valid for my journey. I had asked for a ticket to Manchester Airport and they gave me a ticket for Manchester Stations.

The train company clearly was at fault. I travelled in all good faith with the correct ticket. Let me again point out this is happening all the time - hence the article in Newsrail Express. Why should passengers be messed about when the rail companies are clearly getting it wrong?

The fact that it does say in the regulations "If the train company is at fault" - means just that surely, - the train company was at fault because it issued the wrong ticket. Therefore the barrier staff should let people go in my opinion and not charge excess. (If I gave the impression that I am suggesting there was an element of penalty in there by the way, I apologise - no penalty - with the excess it would have been the correct fare).

Incidentally it is impossible to get from Sheffield to Manchester Victoria without going through Salford Central as far as I can see. But Salford Central is not listed as a Manchester Station!!

Where is this list of Manchester Stations by the way?

 

[glynn80]

I know of no location other than fares manuals which specifically tells you that Manchester Stations includes only Victoria, Piccadilly, and Oxford Road (even then I can't guarantee I haven't missed one out!). Obviously, to make matters worse, the Manchester Group in the Routeing Guide includes a different group of stations!

The group station lists are listed on the Routeing Guide in the instructions page. The ones listed in the fares manual are the ones grouped in fares data i.e. ones that have identical fares from any origin to those stations.

E.g.
The Manchester Group in the routeing guide has Deansgate G-Mex, Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Victoria, Salford Central, Salford Crescent

The list in the FRPP is Deansgate G-Mex 2963, Manchester Oxford Road 2966
Manchester Piccadilly 2968, Manchester Victoria 2970.

So the FRPP omits the Salford stations but that does not mean that your Manchester stations ticket is not valid to a Salford station just that it may not be the same price as a ticket to one of the Salford stations.

I'm not totally sure on how excesses are issued (i.e. what the resulting ticket looks like but I'm assuming the type is 'Excess' and the Origin and Destinations are those of the original ticket?) so as such it would sound like the ticket above is NOT an excess but an additional ticket to complete the journey... In most instances the costs of the tickets are such that: origin-MAN + MAN-MIA > origin-MIA

Excesses are issued as the original ticket should of been.

E.g. If you purchased a London Terminals to Crewe Off Peak Return and wanted to travel to Preston instead the excess would be issued as a London Terminals to Preston, not a Crewe to Preston ticket.

 

[Mojo]

The group station lists are listed on the Routeing Guide in the instructions page. The ones listed in the fares manual are the ones grouped in fares data i.e. ones that have identical fares from any origin to those stations.

E.g.
The Manchester Group in the routeing guide has Deansgate G-Mex, Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Victoria, Salford Central, Salford Crescent

The list in the FRPP is Deansgate G-Mex 2963, Manchester Oxford Road 2966
Manchester Piccadilly 2968, Manchester Victoria 2970.

So the FRPP omits the Salford stations but that does not mean that your Manchester stations ticket is not valid to a Salford station just that it may not be the same price as a ticket to one of the Salford stations.

I've always been under the impression that Group Stations for the purpose of routeing are different for Group Stations for the purpose of pricing.

The ORR website has a list of Group Stations for pricing and for Manchester just has Deansgate, Oxford Road, Piccadilly and Victoria.

 

[glynn80]

I've always been under the impression that Group Stations for the purpose of routeing are different for Group Stations for the purpose of pricing.

The ORR website has a list of Group Stations for pricing and for Manchester just has Deansgate, Oxford Road, Piccadilly and Victoria.

Yes that is what I was stating above!

 

[dan_atki]

Yes that is what I was stating above!

I was aware they were different - and making a point that no wonder passengers can easily get confused! Was sure I missed one out as well!

So the station groups for fares are listed in the public domain then... albeit on the ORR website. Interesting. Now come on, let's make no bones here, which passengers do you know check the ORR website before making a journey!? If the information was put on the NRE website then fair enough but you can't expect passengers to check the ORR site as a matter of course, just like you can't expect them to check the routeing guide.

Let's be realistic here, if you were a passenger who turned up at Sheffield ticket office and asked for a ticket to Manchester Airport and was given one that said 'Manchester Stns' on it, would you reasonably assume that such a ticket was valid to Manchester Airport? You won't question something that looks as though it *might* be valid, and besides the clerk may simply say 'Manchester Airport is one of Manchester Stns' with doing no further checking up on the matter.

On the other hand, if you asked for a ticket to Chestfield and ended up with one to Chesterfield then you'd question it as the pair are so far apart.

Now then the excess should have been issued as a Sheffield to Manchester Airport ticket (thanks for the info regarding these), so why then was Robert Carlisle given a MAN-MIA ticket (assuming he's posted the correct details) which clearly isn't an excess?

If he was to complain about such matters then he'd at least get the difference between that ticket and the price of the excess, and I'd be rather surprised if the whole MAN-MIA ticket wasn't refunded into the form of travel vouchers.

 

[glynn80]

I was aware they were different - and making a point that no wonder passengers can easily get confused! Was sure I missed one out as well!

So the station groups for fares are listed in the public domain then... albeit on the ORR website. Interesting. Now come on, let's make no bones here, which passengers do you know check the ORR website before making a journey!? If the information was put on the NRE website then fair enough but you can't expect passengers to check the ORR site as a matter of course, just like you can't expect them to check the routeing guide.

Let's be realistic here, if you were a passenger who turned up at Sheffield ticket office and asked for a ticket to Manchester Airport and was given one that said 'Manchester Stns' on it, would you reasonably assume that such a ticket was valid to Manchester Airport? You won't question something that looks as though it *might* be valid, and besides the clerk may simply say 'Manchester Airport is one of Manchester Stns' with doing no further checking up on the matter.

On the other hand, if you asked for a ticket to Chestfield and ended up with one to Chesterfield then you'd question it as the pair are so far apart.

Now then the excess should have been issued as a Sheffield to Manchester Airport ticket (thanks for the info regarding these), so why then was Robert Carlisle given a MAN-MIA ticket (assuming he's posted the correct details) which clearly isn't an excess?

If he was to complain about such matters then he'd at least get the difference between that ticket and the price of the excess, and I'd be rather surprised if the whole MAN-MIA ticket wasn't refunded into the form of travel vouchers.

Its not only on the ORR site but also on the ATOC site under the instructions in the routeing guide which passenger should consult if they want to know exactly where there ticket is valid.
http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/instructions.htm#group stations

But you are probably right the average passenger will believe what the ticket office clerk tells them (as they should be able to). It seems in this circumstance the OP was sold just a Manchester to Manchester Airport ticket to save the conductor the hassle of issuing the excess, most are not familiar with the procedure in my experience and I usually have to help them along a bit. Obviously this is no excuse and if it was for more money I would probably take the hassle to complain.

 

[dan_atki]

Its not only on the ORR site but also on the ATOC site under the instructions in the routeing guide which passenger should consult if they want to know exactly where there ticket is valid.
http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/instructions.htm#group stations

I thought we established that these two groups are different :? The only other place I've seen the fares groups listed is section A of the fares manuals (and presumably it's in FRPP now!). Of course, access to FRPP is controlled, and the NFMs no longer exist...

I'm going to just be really picky and technical about the system now (so feel free to ignore the rest of this post if you like!)

Although Salford Crescent is (in terms of routeing) in Manchester Group, it isn't (in terms of fares) in Manchester Stations.

Despite a Sheffield to Manchester Stations ticket being exactly the same price as a Sheffield to Salford Crescent, the Manchester Stations ticket is ultimately not valid at Salford Crescent. As it's too much hassle for a zero excess, I expect most of the time such a thing happens there is no problem leaving...

As such the group stations in the routeing guide cannot be used to determine which stations are in the fares groups.

 

[glynn80]

I thought we established that these two groups are different :? The only other place I've seen the fares groups listed is section A of the fares manuals (and presumably it's in FRPP now!). Of course, access to FRPP is controlled, and the NFMs no longer exist...

I'm going to just be really picky and technical about the system now (so feel free to ignore the rest of this post if you like!)

Although Salford Crescent is (in terms of routeing) in Manchester Group, it isn't (in terms of fares) in Manchester Stations.

Despite a Sheffield to Manchester Stations ticket being exactly the same price as a Sheffield to Salford Crescent, the Manchester Stations ticket is ultimately not valid at Salford Crescent. As it's too much hassle for a zero excess, I expect most of the time such a thing happens there is no problem leaving...

As such the group stations in the routeing guide cannot be used to determine which stations are in the fares groups.

Oh sorry were you asking where the grouped stations with regard to fares data was held in the public domain?

I cannot actually find the list on the ORR site (URL anyone?) but for future reference the one listed on the FRPP is as follows:

BEDFORD STATIONS 0410
Bedford Midland 1512
Bedford St Johns 1510

BIRMINGHAM STNS 0418
Birmingham Moor Street 4515
Birmingham New Street 1127
Birmingham Snow Hill 1006

BOOTLE STATIONS 1780
Bootle New Strand 2195
Bootle Oriel Road 2239

BRADFORD YK STNS 0424
Bradford Forster Square 8346
Bradford Interchange 8345

CANTERBURY STNS 0428
Canterbury East 5164
Canterbury West 5007

CATFORD STATIONS 0258
Catford 5077
Catford Bridge 5047

COLCHESTER STNS 0254
Colchester 6861
Colchester Town 6853

CROYDON STATIONS 0449
East Croydon 5355
West Croydon 5411

DORCHESTER STNS 0429
Dorchester South 5961
Dorchester West 5962

DORKING STATIONS 0416
Dorking Deepdene 5412
Dorking 5357
Dorking West 5297

EDENBRIDGE STNS 0259
Edenbridge 5473
Edenbridge Town 5359

ENFIELD STATIONS 0263
Enfield Chase 6010
Enfield Town 6959

FALKIRK STATIONS 0431
Falkirk Grahamston 9930
Falkirk High 9931

FARNBOROUGH STNS 0260
Farnborough 5521
Farnborough North 5688

FOLKESTONE STNS 0432
Folkestone Central 5035
Folkestone West 5027

GAINSBOROUGH STNS 0415
Gainsborough Central 6465
Gainsborough Lea Road 6424

GLASGOW CEN/QST 0433
Glasgow Central 9813
Glasgow Queen Street 9950

HELENSBURGH STNS 0404
Helensburgh Central 9981
Helensburgh Upper 9982

HERTFORD STNS 0413
Hertford East 6818
Hertford North 6085

LIVERPOOL STNS 0435
James Street Liverpool 2244
Liverpool Central 2242
Liverpool Lime Street 2246
Moorfields 2226

LONDON TERMINALS
City Thameslink
London Liverpool Street
London Blackfriars
London Paddington
London Bridge
London St Pancras International
London Cannon Street
London Victoria
London Charing Cross
London Waterloo
London Euston
Moorgate Underground
London Fenchurch Street
Old Street Underground
London Kings Cross
Vauxhall
London Marylebone

MAIDSTONE STNS 0437
Maidstone Barracks 5237
Maidstone East 5115
Maidstone West 5222

MANCHESTER STNS 0438
Deansgate G-Mex 2963
Manchester Oxford Road 2966
Manchester Piccadilly 2968
Manchester Victoria 2970

NEWARK STATIONS 0441
Newark Castle 6498
Newark Northgate 6499

PENGE STATIONS 0262
Penge East 5072
Penge West 5378

PONTEFRACT STNS 0268
Pontefract Baghill 8540
Pontefract Monkhill 8548

PORTSMOUTH STNS 0440
Portsmouth & Southsea 5537
Portsmouth Harbour 5540

READING STATIONS 0403
Reading 3149
Reading West 3160

SOUTHEND STNS 0411
Southend Central 7456
Southend East 7457
Southend Victoria 7420

THORNE STATIONS 0271
Thorne North 6530
Thorne South 6531

TILBURY STATIONS 7468
Tilbury Riverside 7461
Tilbury Town 7462

TYNDRUM STATIONS 0443
Tyndrum Lower 8728
Upper Tyndrum 8838

WAKEFIELD STNS 0444
Wakefield Kirkgate 8584
Wakefield Westgate 8591

WARRINGTON STNS 0445
Warrington Bank Quay 2384
Warrington Central 2390

W HAMPSTEAD STNS 0265
West Hampstead 1421
West Hampstead TLK 1525

WIGAN STATIONS 0446
Wigan North West 2363
Wigan Wallgate 2406

WORCESTER STNS 0447
Worcester Foregate St. 4893
Worcester Shrub Hill 4891

 

[Mojo]

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/xls/station_usage_2005-06.xls

Look in the final column. You can use Excel's 'filter' function to find what you want.

 

[dan_atki]

Oh sorry were you asking where the grouped stations with regard to fares data was held in the public domain?

Yes! Joe Public has no access to this list so cannot check if Manchester Airport belongs to Manchester Stations for instance...

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/xls/station_usage_2005-06.xls

Look in the final column. You can use Excel's 'filter' function to find what you want.

That really is pathetic! Going through the rigmarole of that to find something trivial :roll: Even then I could say that the spreadsheet is out of date and groups may have changed...

 

[Mojo]

Interestingly enough, I noticed a while ago that if you put a station name in and it should be in a Group, then on Avantix Traveller a text note is added.

For example, I just put in EUS to BHM and it was corrected to:

From : 1072 LONDON TERMINALS
To : 0418 BIRMINGHAM STNS

But a journey to Deansgate G-Mex isn't corrected. Similarly, none of the Southend stations are - even if you try and force it to show fares from/to 0411 it says "no fares."

 

[dan_atki]

Interestingly enough, I noticed a while ago that if you put a station name in and it should be in a Group, then on Avantix Traveller a text note is added.

But a journey to Deansgate G-Mex isn't corrected. Similarly, none of the Southend stations are - even if you try and force it to show fares from/to 0411 it says "no fares."

But this isn't a definitive answer to the problem of determining which stations are in a group. There are instances when despite being in a group the actually station name is printed on the ticket (admittedly most of these are in London, and elsewhere the majority are for local journeys). Also, different routeings also come into play!

I must say, though, that seems rather strange for Southend - even for London Terminals to Southend should certainly come up 'Southend stations'!

 

[Mojo]

I must say, though, that seems rather strange for Southend - even for London Terminals to Southend should certainly come up 'Southend stations'!

The last time I did this journey was Summer 2006 and I was issued with one between London Terminals & Southend Central - it wasn't possible then as I remember explicitly stating I wanted to come back from Southend Victoria.

I think there are only 6 occasions when a station name should be printed on the ticket where the station is in a group:
- Local journeys (eg: Birmingham M St to Birmingham Sn Hl)
- Parking tickets
- Rail rovers (issuing point)
- Travelcards issued within the zones
- Platform tickets
- PTE or other local season/multimodal tickets (eg: nTrain (West Midlands), Freedom Travelpass (Greater Bristol))