Headcode Criteria

[Sunset route]

Is there any Signaller jiggery pokery or magic computer program that helps you guys regulate ?

Just the Mk1 human brain backed up by CCF for information, but TMS isolated or maybe TMS interfaced is heading our way as part of the Thameslink project (if they ever get it to work with panels).

 

[kieron]

What I don't know is the line were one would become the other

There isn't a line as such. For example, the 07:19 from Southport to Manchester Airport has headcode 1U01. Twelve hours later, the 19:20 from Southport to Manchester Airport has headcode 2A26, and exactly the same calling pattern. I'm sure it makes sense in the context of whatever other trains are around at the time.

 

[Peter749]

There isn't a line as such. For example, the 07:19 from Southport to Manchester Airport has headcode 1U01. Twelve hours later, the 19:20 from Southport to Manchester Airport has headcode 2A26, and exactly the same calling pattern. I'm sure it makes sense in the context of whatever other trains are around at the time.

The 07.19 from Southport was a poor runner and I was told a decision was made to recode the train to a Class 1 so it had priority over Class 2 services.

Same with the Liverpool - Preston service as they only have 4 min turn round at Preston so the signalman would give a late running Class 1 priority over a Class 2 if the Class 2 would delay the Class 1 further.
For example - the LSP - PRE departs Lime St at xx.30 with the local to Wigan NW at xx.32. If the Preston was slightly delayed the xx.32 Wigan would be held so as not to cause further delay.

Peter

 

[ComUtoR]

As Sunset has already mentioned. Regulation is a lot more involved than that.

What may have happened is that the Signallers have been specifically told to regulate that train as a priority. If a Sig could confirm that this could be the case, or indeed is a working practice, as my TOC have been working with NR on some specific workings and that certain trains get regulated as a priority.

Simple Class 1 vs Class 2 regulation is almost non existent down my way. We have fast and slow lines where we have mainliners and stoppers along side each other and we have 1's and 2's in the peak that will conflict whatever happens.

From my perspective I have found that you are more regulated to your pathway than anything else. Especially when your close to London. I have a nagging suspicion that when they regulate one train in front of another they swallow the delays. Not that my reports usually blame the signals or anything....

We do have places where the fasts (typically 1x) will be regulated in front but those are more in places where they can be gone in a flash and the impact is minimal, as you stated.

 

[causton]

I did a tour of West Hampstead PSB and I was told that the signallers would like to use their common sense and minimise overall delay, but there is a lot of arguing and if you delay a 5 minute late slow train to let a fast one in front that is on time and in turn it is 10 minutes late, you pick up the 5 minutes delay you caused as a signaller and have to explain it. So in some cases it is better to let stuff run as booked as the delays may be slightly bigger, but it will all go back to the original delay cause rather than the signaller's fault! Shame really!

 

[ComUtoR]

Its hard to justify delaying an on time stopper for a late running fast. I get my little pen out and start making notes for when I get a report.

It truly is a shame that delay attribution is more important than running a service for the passengers.

Its good though as I get to memorise all the signal numbers where I'm held and something always goes past me. VS12.....

 

[carriageline]

Just the Mk1 human brain backed up by CCF for information, but TMS isolated or maybe TMS interfaced is heading our way as part of the Thameslink project (if they ever get it to work with panels).

Is it though? After all, after what the union came out with recently leaves this all in doubt!!

Interestingly, the Sussex regulating policy is now (IIRC, I don't have much to do with Sussex trains now) is that a late running fast train, has precedent over a on time stopper, regardless of how late the fast is. You can only hold the stopper for X amount of minutes IIRC

 

[Tomnick]

I did a tour of West Hampstead PSB and I was told that the signallers would like to use their common sense and minimise overall delay, but there is a lot of arguing and if you delay a 5 minute late slow train to let a fast one in front that is on time and in turn it is 10 minutes late, you pick up the 5 minutes delay you caused as a signaller and have to explain it. So in some cases it is better to let stuff run as booked as the delays may be slightly bigger, but it will all go back to the original delay cause rather than the signaller's fault! Shame really!

I have a nagging suspicion that when they regulate one train in front of another they swallow the delays. Not that my reports usually blame the signals or anything....

Although the signalman might be asked to explain the delay, it shouldn't be attributed to them unless it's clearly incorrect regulation (i.e. it's a really bad decision). I think I've only ever seen that happen once in the context of a genuine regulating decision (as opposed to running one early in error), and even that was - according to the FOC who picked up the delay - because a late and slow freight was allowed to keep going in front of an express passenger for quite some distance.

I've done all sorts even in my idyllic rural existence, including delaying passenger trains (one for upwards of ten minutes, early in the morning) for freights, in one case running a passenger (on a scheduled diversion) 17 minutes early right in front of another passenger which then caught the distant. In all cases, I could justify my decision as minimising the overall delay and I never heard a thing after delays had asked for an explanation. I also tried very hard to see things from the passengers' point of view (the one that I delayed by 10+ minutes was right time by the second subsequent stop, with no connections to worry about before then), and never got grief for making a decision that focussed on that rather than PPM.

 

[Sunset route]

Is it though? After all, after what the union came out with recently leaves this all in doubt!!

Interestingly, the Sussex regulating policy is now (IIRC, I don't have much to do with Sussex trains now) is that a late running fast train, has precedent over a on time stopper, regardless of how late the fast is. You can only hold the stopper for X amount of minutes IIRC

You might be in a better position than me to know more than me as your workstation is only feet away a my panels are hundred of yards away

That policy doesn't count for much as you can't hold a stopping train indefinitely to get a fast(s) In front as there will be also a fast behind that stopping waiting for it to move and you are always waiting for a stream of late running fasts to slot into. With the three traffics flows London Bidge/London Blackfriars & London Vivtoria and the switching between the Fast/Slow lines all round Norwood Folk/Selhurst Jcn & Windmill Bridge Jcn with fast class 2 and stopping class 1 just to add to the complexity. When your nearly always running on 4 min headways there is a lot of 1st come 1st serve and let the country end sort it out where the service is a lot then.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What may have happened is that the Signallers have been specifically told to regulate that train as a priority. If a Sig could confirm that this could be the case, or indeed is a working practice, as my TOC have been working with NR on some specific workings and that certain trains get regulated as a priority.

Control both NR & TOC like to get involved in regulating but will often request when a train in 3 signals back on 4 aspect signalling which is past the point of no return.

 

[ComUtoR]

Although the signalman might be asked to explain the delay, it shouldn't be attributed to them unless it's clearly incorrect regulation (i.e. it's a really bad decision).

We get held regularly for fasts when we are on time and the delay is always kicked back if we get them; which is unusual in the first place.

If the TOC doesn't get the delay and neither does NR is it a case of nobody pays and it just disappears into the ether ? I genuinely believe that PPM has been a bad thing in terms of helping the passenger. PPM seems to be more about the money-go-round than actual in service benefits.

When I'm on my train I think about my passengers. Is it right to regulate a 1x in front of a 2x when I've got 4-500 people with just as much right to keep their trains on time than the 4-500 people on the mainliner.

Its refreshing to hear that you guys are trying to make good decisions rather than blanket policies regulating 1's in front of 2's by default.

Cheers as always.

 

[carriageline]

Generally, the delay has to be attributed somewhere. Normally, it will go down to the initial cause (so whatever delayed the train that was late)

It's a difficult one. It's also why I don't completely agree with PPM on the whole. A train can be 6-7 late it's whole journey, and then be 4 late upon arrival at its destination. The passengers that were mid route were 6-7 late, but yet train is still classes as a PPM success.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LBSCR Times]

Control both NR & TOC like to get involved in regulating but will often request when a train in 3 signals back on 4 aspect signalling which is past the point of no return.

Because too many Controllers are reactive rather than pro-active!

Plus the time delay in the Controller speaking to the Shift Manager, who may have something else going on, and the Signallers!

 

[ComUtoR]

I've had the Sig ring me recently to put the signal back so that they could run another service in front. I had 2Y and they had 1Y. I've also had the road put back 2 sections in front for a mainline service and the impact was a rather large amount of delay minutes.

Its very hard to predict Driver behaviour. I would imagine how we drive also impacts regulation.

I know that mainline services tend to hold back on restrictive aspects so take longer to go through sections and will still not lose time due to higher speeds and plenty of space in the timetable. When I do that the delay can jump quite dramatically as my timings are razor thin.

 

[Peter749]

So which train should have priority when you have a station like Leeds.

The local class 2 running to time or the cross country running 6 or 7 mins late which has a long way to go?

Let the local go and the XC loses more time with more broken connections - let the local go and it might be late at it's destination but within a few more runs it will back on time and maybe sooner if the turnround is good.

Peter

 

[Tomnick]

So which train should have priority when you have a station like Leeds.

The local class 2 running to time or the cross country running 6 or 7 mins late which has a long way to go?

Let the local go and the XC loses more time with more broken connections - let the local go and it might be late at it's destination but within a few more runs it will back on time and maybe sooner if the turnround is good.

If you hold the local back, though, then the following class 1 might well catch up with it before its destinaiton and pick up a similar delay. Every situation's just so different, and half a minute can change everything.

 

[causton]

Its hard to justify delaying an on time stopper for a late running fast.

Never take a non-stop Leighton Buzzard to Euston train then... they can be held at Ledburn to cross from down fast to down slow for a while for a late running VT heading the other way for so long that they delay the northbound VT behind... when they could have simply run it down fast from Ledburn to Leighton Buzzard, stopped it on the down fast, then crossed it at Drayton Road before Bletchley!

Likewise heading south... in fact, one time I went slow line non stop all the way from Leighton Buzzard to Euston as there was a procession of delayed VTs blocking the up fast for us - and as the timetable was so lax we still arrived RT at Euston so a lucky decision from the signaller's point of view!

 

[Master29]

9xxx is used by Virgin for Euston-Scotland services routed via Birmingham, to distinguish them from the 1xxx services routed via the Trent Valley.

I always wondered why they did that. Thanks

 

[E_Reeves]

Hi,
I was just wondering whether the headcodes actually mean anything.
For example, 0Z56 today was a class 56 and 0Z31 was a class 31. When the headcodes are in this style, do the numbers represent the class, or is this a coincidence?
Thanks

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[Tomnick]

I've seen plenty like that - I'm sure that, for VSTP/STP light engine moves in particular, at least some of them are down to an enthusiastic planner with a sense of humour!

 

[PHILIPE]

Hi,
I was just wondering whether the headcodes actually mean anything.
For example, 0Z56 today was a class 56 and 0Z31 was a class 31. When the headcodes are in this style, do the numbers represent the class, or is this a coincidence?
Thanks

Thread explaining here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129823

 

[Harbornite]

I've seen 0Z68 being used for class 68 light engine moves, whether or not this is a coincidence is unknown.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Thread explaining here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129823

That thread doesn't explain it. The OP was asking if the headcode being the same as the class was a coincidence or not.

 

[PHILIPE]

That thread doesn't explain it. The OP was asking if the headcode being the same as the class was a coincidence or not.

Apologies. Me mis-interpreting. It would be a coincidence as there would be no link between the Headcode and the class, which could vary

 

[AndrewE]

Once upon a time the class indicated a train's priority and 0___ (maybe _Z33) was a light engine - or one of them -(0 = high priority in this case) going to work (say) 1___ (Z33) which might then pick up the empty stock (5Z33) which would become 1Z33 at the station where the train started (Z indicating a special train, i.e. not in the WTT.) You can quite often see this working on the Steam excursions website, e.g.
http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t16/t0724a.htm
except that there are no light engines on this particular example.
9 was an unfitted freight, the lowest priority for a signalman or controller.

Class of loco was (is) irrelevant, but if it's a loco move with no train linked, then why not have some fun? - unless someone expects it to be for a train with a corresponding headcode! I think it is breaking the rules that make things understandable though...

 

[Minilad]

I have had many a trip around the houses at New St bringing the rollover set into or out of service and a few have been 5Z and then the last two digits of the set number. Also the same with a few STP ECS moves to Tyseley or Central Rivers