Heart of Wales Line closed again due landslip

[PHILIPE]

The Heart of Wales Line has been closed since Wednesday, 12th.

TFW Journey Check.

Buses replace trains between Llandrindod and Shrewsbury via Knighton. This is due to a landslip and a track wash-out in the Llangynllo area.
Repairs are estimated to take at least until October 2020.

Information given out is patchy, buried and difficult to find and no mention on NRE site

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Conwy Valley line has now being closed for over 6 months...

 

[Llanigraham]

There are a couple of roads closed in the same area due to either landslips or collapsed culverts. We had some torrential rain the other evening!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Conwy Valley line has now being closed for over 6 months...

I wonder if there have been any more while it's been closed?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I wonder if there have been any more while it's been closed?

Oh God, I hope not!! Imagine

 

[deltic]

Will this be the end of some of these lines? The expense of restoring the lines must be out of all proportion to the benefits they provide.

 

[DelW]

The Heart of Wales Line has been closed since Wednesday, 12th.

TFW Journey Check.

Information given out is patchy, buried and difficult to find and no mention on NRE site

Realtime Trains is showing a 2tpd service south of Llandrindod. I assume the line was still only running the 2tpd Covid timetable before the landslip occurred?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Will this be the end of some of these lines? The expense of restoring the lines must be out of all proportion to the benefits they provide.

The reasons these routes survived are still valid- in some ways to a lesser extent with increased car ownership since the 1960s, but then the environmental case for keeping them is probably stronger than ever, if only they had a more usable timetable and/or better integration with buses. However unless major changes are made to how the bus sector works outside of major cities, bustitution will be a non-starter. Our view of bus and rail being competitors rather than an integrated system jointly competing with the car, needs to change.

Conwy Valley would have a better case if it was a through service to somewhere (Newtown or Welshpool maybe) rather than an isolated branch to a fairly small town. But alas we are where we are.

 

[PHILIPE]

Realtime Trains is showing a 2tpd service south of Llandrindod. I assume the line was still only running the 2tpd Covid timetable before the landslip occurred?

That's correct, the COVID Timetable was in operation. Actually it is the normal Sunday service

 

[BrianW]

I gather that the recent ORR Annual report on Health and Safety speaks of a sixfold increase in issues related to land instability. I imagine there will be more impulsion given to getting on top of these now, esp as it relates to infrastructure and will give good photo-opportunities for politicians around the country. 'Something must be seen to be getting done...'

Moderators- I'm happy of course for this to be moved to another thread if more appropriate- I'm conscious of a lot of 'land stability' related situations at present, being sensitised by the tragic losses of life near Stonehaven

 

[GCRS]

I wonder if there have been any more while it's been closed?

I haven't heard of anything bad happening recently. Work is going on around Dolgarrog station and to the south of it. The electronic displays still say that trains will return on September 7th.

 

[DelW]

(snip) ... if only they had a more usable timetable and/or better integration with buses. However unless major changes are made to how the bus sector works outside of major cities, bustitution will be a non-starter. Our view of bus and rail being competitors rather than an integrated system jointly competing with the car, needs to change.

It's particularly disappointing that the Trawscymru route T4, which AIUI is under the control of TfW and/or the Welsh government, doesn't (in normal times) seem to be able to make decent connections between train and bus at Llandrindod. It's fortunate that the Llanerch Inn is on hand to provide somewhere to wait in comfort!

It's also very tight for the early afternoon connection onto the Cambrian at Newtown.

 

[PHILIPE]

It's particularly disappointing that the Trawscymru route T4, which AIUI is under the control of TfW and/or the Welsh government, doesn't (in normal times) seem to be able to make decent connections between train and bus at Llandrindod. It's fortunate that the Llanerch Inn is on hand to provide somewhere to wait in comfort!

It's also very tight for the early afternoon connection onto the Cambrian at Newtown.

The Councils and Rail in Mid-Wales are just not joined up at all.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The Councils and Rail in Mid-Wales everywhere outside TfL-land are just not joined up at all.

Fixed that for you

 

[DelW]

The Councils and Rail in Mid-Wales are just not joined up at all.

Indeed they're not. Trying to plan holiday trips around mid Wales by public transport is an exercise in frustration.
Though that particular journey is no better by rail - the Cambrian coast train is timed to leave Shrewsbury about three minutes before the Heart of Wales train arrives, meaning almost two hours wait in Shrewsbury. At least via the T4 it can work, with a dash through the back streets of Newtown. But it should all be so much simpler - I expect there are historical reasons, but why are Newtown rail and bus stations at opposite ends of the town?

 

[berneyarms]

Network Rail are assessing the damage today and will issue an update later as to the timeframe involved. I suspect that TfW were jumping ahead of themselves with the October estimate.

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailWAL/status/1294230183701090304?s=20

There has been a washout on the HoW line but the timeframe of the closure has not yet been confirmed. We shall be releasing an update later today with further information

 

[berneyarms]

Will this be the end of some of these lines? The expense of restoring the lines must be out of all proportion to the benefits they provide.

I don't think that this will be the end of railway lines.

There is extensive resilience work on the Conwy Valley line being carried out to avoid closures having to take place again.

The HoW line reopened ahead of the original schedule following bridge repairs in July. It's unfortunate that a completely different event has now taken place.

 

[Llanigraham]

Indeed they're not. Trying to plan holiday trips around mid Wales by public transport is an exercise in frustration.
Though that particular journey is no better by rail - the Cambrian coast train is timed to leave Shrewsbury about three minutes before the Heart of Wales train arrives, meaning almost two hours wait in Shrewsbury. At least via the T4 it can work, with a dash through the back streets of Newtown. But it should all be so much simpler - I expect there are historical reasons, but why are Newtown rail and bus stations at opposite ends of the town?

Because of history.
The railway was built before there was much public transport like buses so the station was built where it was easiest for it. To have been nearer the shopping market area would have meant a totally different alignment, which would not have been so convenient.
And the railway did not serve much of the outlying areas.
When buses came along they served those outlying areas and the area of the town that was most popular, namely the shopping and market streets. Broad St is named because it was the market.

 

[Llanigraham]

Just found this on the local news site and includes a photo:~

PICTURES: 'Extreme' rainfall damage closes railway line

Extreme rainfall has damaged a railway line between Shrewsbury and Llandrindod Wells.

www.countytimes.co.uk

Extreme rainfall has damaged a railway line between Shrewsbury and Llandrindod Wells.

Passengers using the Heart of Wales line have been told to check before they travel as the railway between the two towns has been closed owing to extensive damage caused by the heavy downpours on August 12 and 13.

The railway near Knighton has been damaged at various sites including across a 350m stretch where ballast has been washed away and significant debris has been washed onto the track meaning it is completely buried in some areas.
Network Rail engineers are working around the clock to inspect and repair the damage and will confirm how long the closure will last as soon as possible.
The closure means buses will replace trains between Shrewsbury and Llandrindod Wells with passengers advised to check before they travel at National Rail Enquiries or with Transport for Wales.
Bill Kelly, Network Rail’s Wales route director, said: “We are sorry for the disruption this has caused to passengers who use the Heart of Wales line.

“We saw extreme rainfall for a prolonged period which has caused significant damage to sections of the railway and left debris across hundreds of metres of track.
“We are already working around the clock to repair the damage as quickly as possible and we will keep everyone updated with our progress.”
James Price, Transport for Wales CEO added: “We would like to apologise to our customers for any disruption that has been caused, we’ll be working with our partners in Network Rail to resume services as quickly as possible.
“There will be rail replacement buses available and please could all our customers check online before they travel for updated information.”

 

[berneyarms]

Further update on Network Rail site with photos:

Heart of Wales line closed as extreme weather floods railway and causes significant damage

Passengers using the Heart of Wales line are encouraged to check before they travel as the railway between Shrewsbury and Llandrindod Wells has been closed owing to extensive damage caused by extreme rainfall in mid-Wales on 12 and 13 August.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Heart of Wales line closed as extreme weather floods railway and causes significant damage
Region & Route: Wales & Western: Wales & Borders | Wales & Western
Passengers using the Heart of Wales line are encouraged to check before they travel as the railway between Shrewsbury and Llandrindod Wells has been closed owing to extensive damage caused by extreme rainfall in mid-Wales on 12 and 13 August.

Near Knighton, the railway has been damaged at various sites including across a 350m stretch where ballast has been washed away and significant debris has been washed onto the track meaning it is completely buried in some areas.

Network Rail engineers are working around the clock to inspect and repair the damage and will confirm how long the closure will last as soon as possible.

The closure means buses will replace trains between Shrewsbury and Llandrindod Wells with passengers advised to check before they travel at National Rail Enquiries or with Transport for Wales.

Bill Kelly, Network Rail’s Wales route director, said: “We are sorry for the disruption this has caused to passengers who use the Heart of Wales line.

“We saw extreme rainfall for a prolonged period which has caused significant damage to sections of the railway and left debris across hundreds of metres of track.

“We are already working around the clock to repair the damage as quickly as possible and we will keep everyone updated with our progress.”

James Price, Transport for Wales CEO said: “We would like to apologise to our customers for any disruption that has been caused, we’ll be working with our partners in Network Rail to resume services as quickly as possible.

“There will be rail replacement buses available and please could all our customers check online before they travel for updated information.”

 

[Llandudno]

The reasons these routes survived are still valid- in some ways to a lesser extent with increased car ownership since the 1960s, but then the environmental case for keeping them is probably stronger than ever, if only they had a more usable timetable and/or better integration with buses. However unless major changes are made to how the bus sector works outside of major cities, bustitution will be a non-starter. Our view of bus and rail being competitors rather than an integrated system jointly competing with the car, needs to change.

Conwy Valley would have a better case if it was a through service to somewhere (Newtown or Welshpool maybe) rather than an isolated branch to a fairly small town. But alas we are where we are.

The Conwy Valley line should have proper connecting buses and through fares from:
Betws-y-Coed to Llanberis for Snowdon
Blaenau Ffestiniog to Porthmadog
Blaenau Ffestiniog to Dolgellau for Barmouth/Machynlleth

 

[PHILIPE]

TFW saying closed until October 4th.

This is an extract from TFW Journey Check and a challenge to spot the error:-

15:40 Swansea to Shrewsbury due 20:07


15:40 Swansea to Shrewsbury due 20:07 will be terminated at Llandrindod.
It will call additionally at Hopton Heath.
It has been delayed at Swansea and is now 23 minutes late.
Replacement road transport will be provided between Llandrindod and Shrewsbury.
This is due to an earlier train fault.[/QUOTE]

Hopton Heath, by the way, is currently closed due to Social Distancing problems.

 

[PHILIPE]

TFW saying closed until October 4th.

This is an extract from TFW Journey Check and a challenge to spot the error:-

Worked it out. It refers to the bus covering part of the journey calling Hopton Heath there so able to call whereas a train couldn't

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Will this be the end of some of these lines? The expense of restoring the lines must be out of all proportion to the benefits they provide.

Almost certainly not - even if that was a sensible course of action. The political climate these days is very different these days to the one that existed in the 1960s.

The HoW, Cambrian Coast and Conwy Valley lines are certainly post-Beeching oddities though. The HoW famously survived because of the number of marginal constituencies it passed through, the Cambrian Coast was saved due to the long alternative bus journeys required to cross the Mawddach estuary while the frequent closure of the Crimea Pass in winter and the needs of the nuclear plant in Traws saved the Conwy valley line.

 

[Parallel]

The HoW, Cambrian Coast and Conwy Valley lines are certainly post-Beeching oddities though. The HoW famously survived because of the number of marginal constituencies it passed through, the Cambrian Coast was saved due to the long alternative bus journeys required to cross the Mawddach estuary while the frequent closure of the Crimea Pass in winter and the needs of the nuclear plant in Traws saved the Conwy valley line.

Of those three lines mentioned, the Cambrian Coast line is by far the busiest with passengers - Probably due to tourism, it serving several towns with poor other transport links and because the majority are through trains from Birmingham so it’s an ‘easy’ hassle free way to travel there. In summer (pre-Covid) the 2 carriage trains are usually full, and any 4 carriage trains that run are well loaded. Probably why TfW want to introduce an additional Tywyn / Porthmadog service.

Something the HOWL has got going for it is that it is occasionally used for diversions when the Marches are closed.

The Conwy Valley is pretty shambolic and I don’t see how anyone can reliably use it when it is closed so frequently. At least the rail replacement bus times aren’t that much longer than the train.

 

[Doveymain158]

Tywyn-Porthmadog.

 

[DelW]

Worked it out. It refers to the bus covering part of the journey calling Hopton Heath there so able to call whereas a train couldn't

Two odd-seeming things there. One is that as you say, Hopton Heath gets a service from the RRBs which it didn't get from the trains. The other is than (AIUI) the trains can't call there because there'd only be a single door at the platform - so the conductor could be too close to pax boarding or leaving. But the bus that does call will also have only one door, which is right next to the driver. And that's the case at every station. Where's the logic?

 

[Llandudno]

Two odd-seeming things there. One is that as you say, Hopton Heath gets a service from the RRBs which it didn't get from the trains. The other is than (AIUI) the trains can't call there because there'd only be a single door at the platform - so the conductor could be too close to pax boarding or leaving. But the bus that does call will also have only one door, which is right next to the driver. And that's the case at every station. Where's the logic?

There is absolutely no logic, but then again it is TfW we are discussing!

This, after all is the train company that doesn’t offer day returns from most North Wales Coast stations to Chester, but does to Liverpool...via Chester!

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Of those three lines mentioned, the Cambrian Coast line is by far the busiest with passengers - Probably due to tourism, it serving several towns with poor other transport links and because the majority are through trains from Birmingham so it’s an ‘easy’ hassle free way to travel there. In summer (pre-Covid) the 2 carriage trains are usually full, and any 4 carriage trains that run are well loaded. Probably why TfW want to introduce an additional Tygwyn / Porthmadog service.

Without doubt, that's the case today. Of the three lines though the Pwllheli part of the Cambrian probably came closest to closure. From memory, the threat came a decade or so after the bulk of the Beeching cuts, sometime in the 1970s or maybe even the early 1980s. I think I'm right in saying it was the condition of Barmouth bridge that led to the closure proposals and it took a long campaign to defeat them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Conwy Valley would have a better case if it was a through service to somewhere (Newtown or Welshpool maybe) rather than an isolated branch to a fairly small town. But alas we are where we are.

The northern part of the Conwy Valley loads quite well and is a useful tourist service, though is sadly also the bit that tends to float away. But if something serious happened in the Blaenau tunnel (e.g. a large collapse that wasn't economic to repair) I'd be surprised if it wasn't retained to Betws, probably at a higher frequency (you can do 2 hourly clockface with one unit to there).

Without doubt, that's the case today. Of the three lines though the Pwllheli part of the Cambrian probably came closest to closure. From memory, the threat came a decade or so after the bulk of the Beeching cuts, sometime in the 1970s or maybe even the early 1980s. I think I'm right in saying it was the condition of Barmouth bridge that led to the closure proposals and it took a long campaign to defeat them.

If anything that's probably more at risk than the others, as there has been talk of abandonment of fairly large swathes of land (which contain most of the line north of Tywyn at least) in the event of sea level rises, as it'd be cheaper to rehome people and businesses in what is a very rural area (so there aren't many of them) than build a huge network of dykes to keep the sea off it.