Heart of Wales Line improvements from May 2015

[swcovas]

The following is part of an announcement made today in connection with improvements to services on the Cambrian and the HOWL:

Heart of Wales Line

The trial will provide additional morning journeys Mondays - Fridays between Carmarthen and Llandovery, returning to Swansea for an arrival at 8.16, and from Shrewsbury to Llandrindod returning to Shrewsbury with a 7.58 arrival and continuing to Crewe arriving at 8.50. These services are additional to the current four return journeys along the line and provide improved commuting opportunities, and later services will become more conveniently timed with some journeys being extended to start from/terminate at Crewe.

Does anyone know what the nuts and bolts of this are as surely the current first 2 through trains (arr Salop 0822 and Swansea 0918) are not going to continue as per the current tt. The press release does say that later services will be retimed. any ideas?

 

[Proud Salopian]

When I first heard about this I was quite excited - finally improvements to the HOWL timetable! But actually for most stations on the line it's only one extra train a day, Mon-Fri, covering just half the route, and only in one direction! So we've gone from a 4-train timetable, to 4-and-a-quarter-train timetable... :roll:

 

[swcovas]

When I first heard about this I was quite excited - finally improvements to the HOWL timetable! But actually for most stations on the line it's only one extra train a day, Mon-Fri, covering just half the route, and only in one direction! So we've gone from a 4-train timetable, to 4-and-a-quarter-train timetable... :roll:

To be fai it's a bit more than 4 and a quarter.......there will be nothing extra for the section between Llandod and Llandovery but surely the first through trains each way will have to run later. It will be pointless to have arrivals in Salop at 0758 and 0822 and Swansea at 0816 and 0918. But a later first through train WILL give better timed arrivals in both Swansea and Salop for people all along the line for a day out in both places. But as I say, what exactly will the tt be? Unfortunately I never manage to get any info from the HOWLTA or the HOWL Forum. Nothing on their website.....I would have thought they woulkd be trumpeting this announcement at the first opportunity!

 

[berneyarms]

When I first heard about this I was quite excited - finally improvements to the HOWL timetable! But actually for most stations on the line it's only one extra train a day, Mon-Fri, covering just half the route, and only in one direction! So we've gone from a 4-train timetable, to 4-and-a-quarter-train timetable... :roll:

It's more like 4 and two thirds to be fair - with the northern and southern thirds of the line each getting an early morning return working.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Sorry, I mis-read the statement (why can't they word or present the additional trains more clearly??) - yes, it's more like 4 and two-thirds.

 

[Greenback]

It's good news anyway. The southern half of the line deserves an earlier arrival into Swansea.

 

[8H]

Understandable confusion, I struggled to read sense from it it too.

Would have been a good idea to have provided a specimen draft timetable with the press release, and a warning that the times were not set in stone just yet.

 

[strettonarms96]

what stock will the extra servives be? Good old Class 150/153s eh? 2 car 175s or a 158 would be the best!

 

[merlodlliw]

what stock will the extra servives be? Good old Class 150/153s eh? 2 car 175s or a 158 would be the best!

From what I understand, 175 & 158(wont be any spare now) are not compatible with the line,planner will know. If its anything like the Fishguard trials,WG will leave it to ATW to sort out the timetables. 150 & the awful 153 fit the bill.

 

[atclfc]

what stock will the extra servives be? Good old Class 150/153s eh? 2 car 175s or a 158 would be the best!

Ironically a 158 is the only class of those you mention that can't go down there.

 

[strettonarms96]

but they've been down there before on stock moves...

 

[cf111]

but they've been down there before on stock moves...

At a guess, the issue might be with the doors striking platforms.

 

[merlodlliw]

Ironically a 158 is the only class of those you mention that can't go down there.

You are correct, the 158. However I would be amazed to see a 175 on the HOWL, any spare of this class will have to make up for the 158s that will be confiscated(well switched) from other areas of high usage,like Chester/Manchester,unless the rumors of loco haul become real between North Wales & Manchester and Chester/Crewe,that would release a few 150s & 153 for the HOWL

 

[swcovas]

From what I understand, 175 & 158(wont be any spare now) are not compatible with the line,planner will know. If its anything like the Fishguard trials,WG will leave it to ATW to sort out the timetables. 150 & the awful 153 fit the bill.

Personally I would it slightly differently........The 153 and the awful 150s!!!! Thats just me.....i just think the 150s are fine shuttling up and down the vallies but on the HOWL?

IIRC the 158s only have an issue at Ffairfach.

Can still no one come up with ideas of how new tt might be structured?

 

[PHILIPE]

175s OK for HOW but as precious likely to be used on core routes. 158s can only run empty (I/c attached) and with air bags deflated.

 

[merlodlliw]

There is one class worse, the pacer, the time table will be up to ATW,one of the Companys last swan songs,they should have discussed this with the WG rail unit whom supposedly reported back to the Minister.

It seems this Minister likes to make official announcements at Senedd recess times, the Wrexham partial redouble was also announced the day of the Summer recess last year,suppose thats politics.

I am sure,my opinion only, WG media will be unhappy with the Ceredigion AM for leaking & breaking the embargo on this story of extra services.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

To be fai it's a bit more than 4 and a quarter.......there will be nothing extra for the section between Llandod and Llandovery but surely the first through trains each way will have to run later. It will be pointless to have arrivals in Salop at 0758 and 0822 and Swansea at 0816 and 0918. But a later first through train WILL give better timed arrivals in both Swansea and Salop for people all along the line for a day out in both places. But as I say, what exactly will the tt be? Unfortunately I never manage to get any info from the HOWLTA or the HOWL Forum. Nothing on their website.....I would have thought they woulkd be trumpeting this announcement at the first opportunity!

There already is a 0757 Shrewsbury-Crewe arr 0849, so they are just starting it from Llandod which must mean it will leave at about 0630.
Maybe combining the HOWL/SHR-CRE service saves some stock hours in the general rejig for the Cambrian.
It might start out as 2x153 on the early turn from Shrewsbury, splitting at Llandod.

 

[merlodlliw]

There already is a 0757 Shrewsbury-Crewe arr 0849, so they are just starting it from Llandod which must mean it will leave at about 0630.
Maybe combining the HOWL/SHR-CRE service saves some stock hours in the general rejig for the Cambrian.
It might start out as 2x153 on the early turn from Shrewsbury, splitting at Llandod.

You are probably correct,but would it have to carry a fitter? to disconnect at Llandod etc.

 

[Llanigraham]

Why would they need a fitter?
They don't use a fitter when things couple/uncouple at Salop.

 

[Western Lord]

Why would they need a fitter?
They don't use a fitter when things couple/uncouple at Salop.

A fitter?? The person who couples/uncouples trains is a shunter, but, of course, these trains have automatic couplers, so not necessary.

 

[merlodlliw]

Why would they need a fitter?
They don't use a fitter when things couple/uncouple at Salop.

Yes of course, its all automatic,I have only seen joining services,ill have a look next time at splitting.
The fitter is of course when things go wrong.

 

[swcovas]

There already is a 0757 Shrewsbury-Crewe arr 0849, so they are just starting it from Llandod which must mean it will leave at about 0630.
Maybe combining the HOWL/SHR-CRE service saves some stock hours in the general rejig for the Cambrian.
It might start out as 2x153 on the early turn from Shrewsbury, splitting at Llandod.

But you are assuming that aftyert splitting one of the units will sit at Llandod for a while before continuing to Swansea. Is it also possible that the first thru train will run at say an hour or so later from Salop? There is definitely a stock issue here which I for sure can't fathom.

 

[merlodlliw]

But you are assuming that aftyert splitting one of the units will sit at Llandod for a while before continuing to Swansea. Is it also possible that the first thru train will run at say an hour or so later from Salop? There is definitely a stock issue here which I for sure can't fathom.

two drivers from Shrewsbury perhaps. There will be a stock issue,unless the rumored Loco Hauled become a reality on the Crewe/North Wales/Manchester runs to release 150s and the 153s. Then the question is which loop will the divers swap over,unlike the Cambrian this is a longer line

 

[krus_aragon]

Can still no one come up with ideas of how new tt might be structured?

I've had a bash at it, starting with the morning services we know about, and working from there.

There's currently a Carmarthen-Manchester service that passes Llanelli at the time the new service would have to head north for Llandovery, so I presume that the Manchester service will start from Swansea in the new timetable, with the HOWL unit stables at Carmarthen overnight.

I've only listed timings for the passing places along the Heart of Wales Line: Knighton, Llandrindod, Llanwrtyd, Llandovery and Llandeilo, as well as the major stations at either end.

CRE                        0920          1720
SHR   0450          0610   1030   1445   1815
KNI   0540          0700   1120   1535   1900
LLO   0620          0740   1200   1615   1940
LNW                 0810   1230   1645   2010
LLV          0645   0835   1255   1700   2100
LLL          0705   0855   1325   1730   2130
LLE          0755   0955   1415   1820   2220
SWA          0816   1015   1435   1840   2240

CMN   0503
SWA                 0605   1050   1235   1820
LLE   0530          0625   1105   1250   1840
LLL   0610          0705   1145   1330   1920
LLV   0640          0725   1205   1350   1940
LNW                 0755   1230   1415   2005
LLO          0625   0830   1310   1455   2040
KNI          0700   0910   1350   1535   2115
SHR          0758   1010   1430   1625   2210
CRE          0850   1110          1715

This timetable uses the passing points at Knighton, Llanwrtyd, and Llangynllo twice each day.

The "turnback" services each morning are extrapolated from the times mentioned in the press release. The first through services I've listed are the earliest possible following services, each using the first loop in order to pass the "turnbacks". The rest of the services are educated guesswork on my part. I've made sure they're timed to cross at passing loops along the HOWL, but haven't looked at conflicting traffic on the LLE-SWA and CRV-SHR portions.

Some of the arrivals at Shrewsbury dovetail nicely with the two-hourly Crewe shuttle, so I've assumed that those will operate as a through service.

 

[Greenback]

The HoW train for Llandovery could detach from the Manchester service at Llanelli. Then no passengers from west of Swansea would lose the current early morning service to the capital and beyond.

 

[krus_aragon]

The HoW train for Llandovery could detach from the Manchester service at Llanelli. Then no passengers from west of Swansea would lose the current early morning service to the capital and beyond.

It could, if it's a 150 or 158, but realtime trains says the Manchester service is currently diagrammed at 100mph, which suggests a class 175.

 

[merlodlliw]

Well done Krus, good examples and reasons,

 

[Gareth Marston]

I've had a bash at it, starting with the morning services we know about, and working from there.

There's currently a Carmarthen-Manchester service that passes Llanelli at the time the new service would have to head north for Llandovery, so I presume that the Manchester service will start from Swansea in the new timetable, with the HOWL unit stables at Carmarthen overnight.

I've only listed timings for the passing places along the Heart of Wales Line: Knighton, Llandrindod, Llanwrtyd, Llandovery and Llandeilo, as well as the major stations at either end.

CRE                        0920          1720
SHR   0450          0610   1030   1445   1815
KNI   0540          0700   1120   1535   1900
LLO   0620          0740   1200   1615   1940
LNW                 0810   1230   1645   2010
LLV          0645   0835   1255   1700   2100
LLL          0705   0855   1325   1730   2130
LLE          0755   0955   1415   1820   2220
SWA          0816   1015   1435   1840   2240

CMN   0503
SWA                 0605   1050   1235   1820
LLE   0530          0625   1105   1250   1840
LLL   0610          0705   1145   1330   1920
LLV   0640          0725   1205   1350   1940
LNW                 0755   1230   1415   2005
LLO          0625   0830   1310   1455   2040
KNI          0700   0910   1350   1535   2115
SHR          0758   1010   1430   1625   2210
CRE          0850   1110          1715

This timetable uses the passing points at Knighton, Llanwrtyd, and Llangynllo twice each day.

The "turnback" services each morning are extrapolated from the times mentioned in the press release. The first through services I've listed are the earliest possible following services, each using the first loop in order to pass the "turnbacks". The rest of the services are educated guesswork on my part. I've made sure they're timed to cross at passing loops along the HOWL, but haven't looked at conflicting traffic on the LLE-SWA and CRV-SHR portions.

Some of the arrivals at Shrewsbury dovetail nicely with the two-hourly Crewe shuttle, so I've assumed that those will operate as a through service.

Some huge gaps in afternoon there I think extending anything but the first UP from Llandod to Crewe is not the best.

 

[craigybagel]

Very difficult to cross anywhere other than Llandrindrod or LLanwrtyd because of crewing issues. Carmarthen Guards and Drivers don't sign north of Llandrindrod, Shrewsbury Guards and Drivers and Crewe Guards don't sign south of Llanwrtyd. Even if you did spend the time and money having crews learn more of the line, you'd then run into difficulty with breaks (Shrewsbury-Llanwrtyd-Shrewsbury is already over 4 hours of continuous work).

 

[Starmill]

New traincrew depot at Llandrindod!