Heart of Wales May 2015 Timetable

[swcovas]

Good job you weren't trying to book on HOWL as there a couple of trains missing. Obviously not in RTT either.

I think its a fair assumption that the timings on the missing trains will be much the same as at present.

On a recent quick visit up to Llandeilo from Swansea on a rover ticket I was very surprised to find that my return to Swansea by bus was scuppered because the off peak bus service north of Ammanford has been cut to the minimum! I therefore hope that the improved rail service from May is going to be promoted to the maximum. Whilst train is never going to compete in frequency with the bus from Ammanford which is now (amazingly! ) every 20 mins it is still faster. And north of Ammanford this is even more apparent. I cannot understand why the HOWL forum has mentioned nothing of the new services on their website since the original announcement in April 2014. They should be shouting from the rooftops!

Split from: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=89350

 

[merlodlliw]

I think its a fair assumption that the timings on the missing trains will be much the same as at present.

On a recent quick visit up to Llandeilo from Swansea on a rover ticket I was very surprised to find that my return to Swansea by bus was scuppered because the off peak bus service north of Ammanford has been cut to the minimum! I therefore hope that the improved rail service from May is going to be promoted to the maximum. Whilst train is never going to compete in frequency with the bus from Ammanford which is now (amazingly! ) every 20 mins it is still faster. And north of Ammanford this is even more apparent. I cannot understand why the HOWL forum has mentioned nothing of the new services on their website since the original announcement in April 2014. They should be shouting from the rooftops!

Perhaps they are awaiting confirmation of new services,there must be some technical reason for ATW not showing all services,ill ask a Senior Manager why,and report back. Has WG are paying for the new services,they must have been agreed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps they are awaiting confirmation of new services,there must be some technical reason for ATW not showing all services,ill ask a Senior Manager why,and report back. Has WG are paying for the new services,they must have been agreed.

I have had a reply from an ATW Manager, this is the message


Bob
Which ones? they all should now be in the system and in some instances in journey planner on the NR site
‎Many thanks


So chaps which are the missing ones? so I can report back

 

[tomuk]

Shropshire Star: http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015/03/03/dismay-over-timetable-changes-on-shropshire-railway/

"The morning train from Swansea to Shrewsbury currently stops at Craven Arms at 7.54am and Church Stretton at 8.07am before arriving at Shrewsbury at 8.22am, Mondays to Fridays."

Any comments on this

 

[swcovas]

Perhaps they are awaiting confirmation of new services,there must be some technical reason for ATW not showing all services,ill ask a Senior Manager why,and report back. Has WG are paying for the new services,they must have been agreed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I have had a reply from an ATW Manager, this is the message


Bob
Which ones? they all should now be in the system and in some instances in journey planner on the NR site
‎Many thanks





So chaps which are the missing ones? so I can report back

Hi Bob.....

Missing trains are the last up from Swansea dep 1820 ish and the 0910 ish Salop - Swansea

Steve

 

[berneyarms]

Perhaps they are awaiting confirmation of new services,there must be some technical reason for ATW not showing all services,ill ask a Senior Manager why,and report back. Has WG are paying for the new services,they must have been agreed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I have had a reply from an ATW Manager, this is the message


Bob
Which ones? they all should now be in the system and in some instances in journey planner on the NR site
‎Many thanks


So chaps which are the missing ones? so I can report back

I listed them in post 1012 above:

10:09 Shrewsbury-Swansea (starts at Crewe, Crewe-Shrewsbury portion also missing)
18:25 Shrewsbury-Swansea (starts at Crewe, Crewe-Shrewsbury portion also missing)
18:21 Swansea - Shrewsbury

Also, the 06:18 Llandrindod - Crewe (per consultation timetable) is shown as leaving at 06:13

 

[PHILIPE]

Shropshire Star: http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015/03/03/dismay-over-timetable-changes-on-shropshire-railway/

"The morning train from Swansea to Shrewsbury currently stops at Craven Arms at 7.54am and Church Stretton at 8.07am before arriving at Shrewsbury at 8.22am, Mondays to Fridays."

Any comments on this

In order to form 08 00 Shrewsbury to Crewe starting back from Llandrindod Wells

 

[merlodlliw]

I listed them in post 1012 above:

10:09 Shrewsbury-Swansea (starts at Crewe, Crewe-Shrewsbury portion also missing)
18:25 Shrewsbury-Swansea (starts at Crewe, Crewe-Shrewsbury portion also missing)
18:21 Swansea - Shrewsbury

Also, the 06:18 Llandrindod - Crewe (per consultation timetable) is shown as leaving at 06:13

I will ask about the three trains 1009/1825 and 1821, I presume they have not popped up on Nat Rail today. Thanks for the reply.

Bob

 

[PHILIPE]

I will ask about the three trains 1009/1825 and 1821, I presume they have not popped up on Nat Rail today. Thanks for the reply.

Bob

Not as yet, Bob

 

[DelW]

I listed them in post 1012 above:

10:09 Shrewsbury-Swansea (starts at Crewe, Crewe-Shrewsbury portion also missing)
18:25 Shrewsbury-Swansea (starts at Crewe, Crewe-Shrewsbury portion also missing)
18:21 Swansea - Shrewsbury

Also, the 06:18 Llandrindod - Crewe (per consultation timetable) is shown as leaving at 06:13

The 18.25 from Shrewsbury is in the journey planner (and RTT etc.). The other two mentioned are indeed the ones which have never appeared. This means that at Llanwrtyd (for example) there is no southbound service between 08.06 and 16.23, and no northbound after 16.24.

As discussed in the earlier thread, the timetable as posted would require some crews to work through from end to end, as the 09.33 from Swansea and the 18.25 from Shrewsbury don't cross other services to exchange crews.

 

[merlodlliw]

I have e mailed my request to an ATW Senior Manager,see below,ill report back with the reply.

"Good morning (name removed)

There appears to be two trains missing from the system, see below, we presume they will show up at some time



10:09 Shrewsbury-Swansea (starts at Crewe, Crewe-Shrewsbury portion also missing)

18:21 Swansea - Shrewsbury"


Bob

I have received this reply within minutes from ATW

"Bob
I can confirm from out train planning NR are aware and trying to rectify the glitch
Should be soon as your email has jogged their memory to chase. So many thanks for this"

(name removed)

 

[berneyarms]

Well done!

 

[craigybagel]

The 18.25 from Shrewsbury is in the journey planner (and RTT etc.). The other two mentioned are indeed the ones which have never appeared. This means that at Llanwrtyd (for example) there is no southbound service between 08.06 and 16.23, and no northbound after 16.24.

As discussed in the earlier thread, the timetable as posted would require some crews to work through from end to end, as the 09.33 from Swansea and the 18.25 from Shrewsbury don't cross other services to exchange crews.

No chance of through working happening. The crossing points for the morning through services are changing though, the first through trains will cross at llanwrtyd and the second at llandrindrod, a reversal of the current arrangement.

 

[swcovas]

No chance of through working happening. The crossing points for the morning through services are changing though, the first through trains will cross at llanwrtyd and the second at llandrindrod, a reversal of the current arrangement.

Llandeilo back in the equation too with the new early morning Swansea train crossing the first through up train at about 0700.

 

[PHILIPE]

I understand there is a similar problem on the Far North Line in Scotland, big tourism area and have heard of people are trying to book tickets on missing trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I think that in respect of the additional trains from Llandrindod in the morning, ATW have been so eager to please or make an impression, they've fouled things up instead with the earlier timings arriving in Shrewsbury.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


And another post. I seem to be monopolising this thread !!!

Just to say that the missing HOWL trains are now in RTT

 

[strettonarms96]

I think that in respect of the additional trains from Llandrindod in the morning, ATW have been so eager to please or make an impression, they've fouled things up instead with the earlier timings arriving in Shrewsbury.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I use the morning train into shrews and trust me, s*** has hit the fan with commuters. A lot of upheaval. Many parents have to drive their children to either c.arms or stretton for as long as 25 minutes so their day is going to start v. early with a c.arms departure of 7.25. A pre 8am arrival into shrewsbury is ridiculous.

 

[PHILIPE]

It's probably too late now to kick up a stink such as that which saw the re-instatement of the 07 47 ex Wrexham. This earlier time of arrival into Shrewsbury only really came to light after it had been set in stone with Network Rail.

 

[merlodlliw]

It's probably too late now to kick up a stink such as that which saw the re-instatement of the 07 47 ex Wrexham. This earlier time of arrival into Shrewsbury only really came to light after it had been set in stone with Network Rail.

I would agree its far too late to get it changed now,the problem is the MP for Ludlow which covers the area, can only write to the Minister and ATW,unless a deal is done with a friendly AM it wont be raised in the Senedd,which must gain a reply from the Minister,Cardiff Bay rail division should have spotted this change,but alas Church Stretton is in England.
The Marches line liaison group met ATW last Tuesday,I understand it was top of the agenda,The extra service will be praised by Cardiff Bay who should have asked questions,but no one seems to care about Shropshire in Cardiff,except the Shrewsbury hub which WG/ATW control.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I would agree its far too late to get it changed now,the problem is the MP for Ludlow which covers the area, can only write to the Minister and ATW,unless a deal is done with a friendly AM it wont be raised in the Senedd,which must gain a reply from the Minister,Cardiff Bay rail division should have spotted this change,but alas Church Stretton is in England.
The Marches line liaison group met ATW last Tuesday,I understand it was top of the agenda,The extra service will be praised by Cardiff Bay who should have asked questions,but no one seems to care about Shropshire in Cardiff,except the Shrewsbury hub which WG/ATW control.

There seems to have been a lot more stuff floating around about the extras on the Cambrian than the Heart of Wales proposals, we had the info on the 0747 threat well before Christmas. I wonder what the view of HOWLTAis on this? There quite intertwined the the Heart of Wales Line Forum who did the meeting with the Minister.

Have folk known but have kept quite? They've been so desperate for so long to get something more than 4 trains a day they may not have wanted to rock the boat.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I would agree its far too late to get it changed now

I'm guessing there isn't a Cardiff-Holyhead/Manchester service which could have calls added to resolve the issue in the short-term then?

The extra service will be praised by Cardiff Bay who should have asked questions,but no one seems to care about Shropshire in Cardiff,except the Shrewsbury hub which WG/ATW control.

Not sure WAG/ATW care about the Shrewsbury hub either. Not been there for some time but by the look of recent photos online the downgrade of the station as an interchange has been implemented (smaller waiting room, despite the old one not being big enough), despite the objections.

 

[swcovas]

There seems to have been a lot more stuff floating around about the extras on the Cambrian than the Heart of Wales proposals, we had the info on the 0747 threat well before Christmas. I wonder what the view of HOWLTAis on this? There quite intertwined the the Heart of Wales Line Forum who did the meeting with the Minister.

Have folk known but have kept quite? They've been so desperate for so long to get something more than 4 trains a day they may not have wanted to rock the boat.

As I said at the start of his thread HOWLTA and the Forum have always seemed (to me at any rate) very unforthcoming with information unlike the Cambrian support group, SARPA. Again as I said at the outset the ONLY mention of the new services on the Forum website was a year ago when the announcement was made. I sincerely hope plenty of publicity is going to be done before May.

 

[PHILIPE]

I'm guessing there isn't a Cardiff-Holyhead/Manchester service which could have calls added to resolve the issue in the short-term then?

Not sure WAG/ATW care about the Shrewsbury hub either. Not been there for some time but by the look of recent photos online the downgrade of the station as an interchange has been implemented (smaller waiting room, despite the old one not being big enough), despite the objections.

The Manchesters each side already call.

 

[DaveHarries]

I use the morning train into shrews and trust me, s*** has hit the fan with commuters. A lot of upheaval. Many parents have to drive their children to either c.arms or stretton for as long as 25 minutes so their day is going to start v. early with a c.arms departure of 7.25. A pre 8am arrival into shrewsbury is ridiculous.

What time would be best then to get into Shrewsbury? It is only "pre-8am by about 3 minutes as the train arrives at 0757! I guess the idea is to get those who work in Shrewsbury to there for those who have to be at work at, or by, 0830.

Dave

 

[Gareth Marston]

As I said at the start of his thread HOWLTA and the Forum have always seemed (to me at any rate) very unforthcoming with information unlike the Cambrian support group, SARPA. Again as I said at the outset the ONLY mention of the new services on the Forum website was a year ago when the announcement was made. I sincerely hope plenty of publicity is going to be done before May.

The times on the Cambrian have all been on local websites and in local Newspapers already, I' understand that SARPA's April newsletter will be a enhanced service special and a larger print run is planned to get the message out.

 

[merlodlliw]

There seems to have been a lot more stuff floating around about the extras on the Cambrian than the Heart of Wales proposals, we had the info on the 0747 threat well before Christmas. I wonder what the view of HOWLTAis on this? There quite intertwined the the Heart of Wales Line Forum who did the meeting with the Minister.

Have folk known but have kept quite? They've been so desperate for so long to get something more than 4 trains a day they may not have wanted to rock the boat.

Not wanting to rock the boat,may well be correct, if you dont complain with reasons, WG who are paying for the extras & ATW will take it that everyone is happy,thats not the stance we use,The publicity for the HOWL extras,due for the election in May will outweigh any discord in Shropshire.

 

[berneyarms]

I'm guessing there isn't a Cardiff-Holyhead/Manchester service which could have calls added to resolve the issue in the short-term then?

The Manchesters each side already call.

Currently trains between Craven Arms and Shrewsbury, arriving before 09:00 are:

Dep Craven Arms 06:20 Arr Shrewsbury 06:43 (Cardiff/Manchester)
Dep Craven Arms 06:57 Arr Shrewsbury 07:22 (Cardiff/Llandudno)
Dep Craven Arms 07:21 Arr Shrewsbury 07:44 (Cardiff/Manchester)
Dep Craven Arms 07:54 Arr Shrewsbury 08:22 (HOWL)
Dep Craven Arms 08:25 Arr Shrewsbury 08:48 (Cardiff/Manchester)

After May 18th, they will be:

Dep Craven Arms 06:20 Arr Shrewsbury 06:43 (Cardiff/Manchester)
Dep Craven Arms 06:57 Arr Shrewsbury 07:20 (Cardiff/Llandudno)
Dep Craven Arms 07:21 Arr Shrewsbury 07:44 (Cardiff/Manchester)
Dep Craven Arms 07:28 Arr Shrewsbury 07:57 (HOWL)
Dep Craven Arms 08:25 Arr Shrewsbury 08:48 (Cardiff/Manchester)

So you can see the imbalance that has resulted (a one hour gap after two trains within 10 minutes of each other). It's kind of staggering that no one in train planning spotted this.

 

[Greenback]

Perhaps it was spotted but ultimately it was considered to be the best compromise given the constraints of single line working, flat junctions and the like have on capacity and timetable planning.

Every time there are changes we see that there are those who end up being worse off. It's impossible to please everyone.

 

[PHILIPE]

The additional ex Llandrindod Wells was timed to form the current 08 00 Shrewsbury to Crewe local path otherwise there would have been no unit.

 

[berneyarms]

I understand all of that - just pointing out that it has created a really long gap in what is effectively a commuter service.

Add to that, the new HOWL timetable has some really long waits at intermediate stations to cross trains travelling in the other direction:

The 06:03 Swansea-Crewe waits at Llanwrtyd for 17 minutes.

The 18:21 Swansea-Shrewsbury waits at Llanwrtyd for 26 minutes, and then inexplicably at Llandrindod for another 16 minutes (it does not cross anything there).

The 05:42 Shrewsbury-Cardiff Central waits at Knighton for 25 minutes.

The 09:14 Crewe-Swansea waits at Llandrindod for 23 minutes.

The 14:05 Shrewsbury-Swansea waits at Llanwrtyd for 14 minutes.

These will make travelling along the line much less appealing I have to say.

 

[Greenback]

If you are a smoker the chance to nip out and have a ciggie might make it more appealing. I'm sure Butts will be pleased!

 

[berneyarms]

If you are a smoker the chance to nip out and have a ciggie might make it more appealing. I'm sure Butts will be pleased!

Indeed they will I imagine, but it will be rather frustrating for everyone else.

The times that the HOWL services can operate are constrained by Crewe-Shrewsbury services and the Manchester-Cardiff services, and this has led to these excruciating long waits.