Heat related issues (25 July 2019 and subsequent days)

[TUC]

Not really. We're talking of journeys between 20 and 80 miles, fighting their way into London and back out again. Also, in many cases, the family car is locked and parked at the station. Londoners are used to occasional disruption owing to train problems, but the widespread scale of issues today was probably worth reporting on national news in view of it's extent.

Driving all of 20 miles to get someone. Life’s so tough for Londoners isn’t it?

 

[sharpley]

EMT Twitter are annoying a lot of people. They’re just copying and pasting stock responses to everyone whether appropriate or not.
I have just asked them whether the local service from Leicester to Nottingham (the Lincoln Central Service) will be okay tomorrow as I need to get to work.
Their response was ‘hi there the line to London is still closed and we don’t know when it will reopen’ which is what they’re replying to everyone regardless of what they ask.
I’ve just pointed out to them that in fact this service doesn’t go anywhere near London and it ran as normal during today’s disruption..!

For what its worth I used that Leicester - Lincoln service twice today. As you say ran pretty much to time, both services baking hot but free bottles of water on one of them. Train was very busy between Nottingham and Leicester due to the reduced mainline services. Who needs @emtrains

 

[Cowley]

I wonder what breed he was - clearly a hearding dog. Maybe a collie?

Are they sheep or goats? It looks like it was filmed in Richmond Park. A truly hilarious video .

They’re deer aren’t they BB? I always assumed they were anyway.
He certainly manages to get some speed out of them whatever they are!

 

[bramling]

Driving all of 20 miles to get someone. Life’s so tough for Londoners isn’t it?

A 20-mile drive in parts of London/south-east can quite easily take an hour or more at the wrong time of day.

 

[Bromley boy]

They’re deer aren’t they BB? I always assumed they were anyway.
He certainly manages to get some speed out of them whatever they are!

Too dark to be deer?

Bah bah black sheep and all that.

 

[Lozzy0603]

Was there a particular reason they didn't evacuate the stranded passengers on the Virgin Trains service via Camden Yard and out to Gloucester Road?
The train came to a stop almost in the perfect position to access the yard safe path, and I could see network rail and BTP staff and vehicles using that route to get to the train anyway.
The DF and UF were both blocked, but regardless the evacuation could have occurred on the off-side of the DF and the passengers wouldn't have been in danger of going near running lines. Instead they were evacuated on the UF side, where the slow lines were still in operation.
Was Camden carriage sidings closed and powered off during the incident? I saw they isolated everything from Line X to the far side of the Primrose Hill tunnels on the DF.

 

[Bromley boy]

Shouldn’t it all be done electronically rather than by manual forms these days?

Never worked on the railway, have you?!

 

[londonmidland]

From EMT: "Disruption following earlier damage to the overhead lines near London continues. Network Rail are working to re-open the lines. Customers are advised NOT to travel on Friday 26th July."

 

[mmh]

Was there a particular reason they didn't evacuate the stranded passengers on the Virgin Trains service via Camden Yard and out to Gloucester Road?
The train came to a stop almost in the perfect position to access the yard safe path, and I could see network rail and BTP staff and vehicles using that route to get to the train anyway.

In a parallel universe there's a forum with a similar question being asked.

"None of those poor people wanted to go to Camden Yard. Virgin have diesel trains, why couldn't they have used one to rescue them?"

 

[Silver Cobra]

According to LNER journey check, the only notable thing about the 1600 Kings Cross to Aberdeen (due 2312) is that it's 35 minutes late. As of 1950 it's between Huntingdon and Peterborough. If it reaches Aberdeen (is it even possible?) it'll be past 2am.

This service still hasn’t reached Edinburgh yet, running almost 5 hours late now. While I imagine it will be caped at Edinburgh, if it does go all the way to Aberdeen, it won’t get there until after 4am.

 

[ComUtoR]

if it does go all the way to Aberdeen, it won’t get there until after 4am.

0406

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y75869/2019/07/25/advanced

 

[AlexNL]

Those non AC trains have windows that open and old fashioned fans. I will maintain that we will end up having a heat related death on our railway due to the failure of the industry to provide emergency opening windows/ventilation or Aircon that is fit for purpose and maintained correctly.

A few years ago, the Dutch Railways had a rather significant heat related incident.

Due to a technical failure, one of their trains stranded somewhere in the fields on a hot summer day. The train lost all power (and thus, no AC) and as windows could not be opened, temperatures inside the train rose pretty quickly. 8 passengers lost their consciousness and needed medical assistance. After the incident, NS have retrofitted all their trains with hopper windows which can be opened in case of emergency. They are locked by default (as to not disturb the AC from doing its job under normal circumstances) but can be opened by staff if necessary - it's just a square screw.

Perhaps this is something which the British railways (RSSB/RAIB?) should consider - trains will continue to fail and there is no expectation that this is the last 'hot summer'. On the contrary.

 

[Greybeard33]

I’m just back from probably what is my worst ever journey on the WCML. I’ve just been baked at over 40 degrees on the 1420 Pendolino from Euston to Manchester for nearly 4 hours. Apparently the air con was broken and they tried to fix it before deciding they couldn’t and sending it out anyway.

On arrival at Piccadilly there were multiple passengers passed out in the aisles and doorways being treated by medics and train crew and a few of the crew who were all fantastic despite the conditions they had to work in, in tears. I was drenched through with sweat - it was like a wet t-shirt contest on there. Awful stuff.

There seems to be a few issues with various Pendolinos having the same problem today. Coincidence?

I saw that Pendolino arrive at Piccadilly two hours late. It was diverted into Platform 5 to avoid the southbound throng waiting on P6.

 

[tsr]

A few years ago, the Dutch Railways had a rather significant heat related incident.

Due to a technical failure, one of their trains stranded somewhere in the fields on a hot summer day. The train lost all power (and thus, no AC) and as windows could not be opened, temperatures inside the train rose pretty quickly. 8 passengers lost their consciousness and needed medical assistance. After the incident, NS have retrofitted all their trains with hopper windows which can be opened in case of emergency. They are locked by default (as to not disturb the AC from doing its job under normal circumstances) but can be opened by staff if necessary - it's just a square screw.

Perhaps this is something which the British railways (RSSB/RAIB?) should consider - trains will continue to fail and there is no expectation that this is the last 'hot summer'. On the contrary.

This is exactly what most Bombardier trains have, though unfortunately they're not fitted at anything like every window. A lot of the older Thames Turbo units also have poor aircon, but the old hopper windows were never removed, so they're just permanently left unlocked.

Many trains - though not all - also now have hot weather barriers for use when stranded away from a station. In essence, you apply a pre-formed mesh panel to a door and then pull the emergency egress, which allows people to come and get fresh air if they're struggling with the onboard conditions.

In terms of moving trains... for what it's worth, having tried various methods over the years, there is simply no substitute for decently-maintained aircon. Even a coach with only half of its aircon units functioning will often be more comfortable than one with a total aircon failure and a couple of emergency hopper windows unlocked.

Often, too, the training given to crews on how to reset and diagnose aircon faults is... well... incomplete. I've heard plenty from colleagues that the aircon on their units "can only be reset on the depot", or some such, when half of the stock they sign can have multiple system resets easily carried out within the saloon or cab.

 

[tsr]

Also... major disruption around the Norwich area due to thunderstorms damaging signalling equipment. Trains are having to perform complex shunts just to get them into the station via whatever random routes are available.

 

[158756]

This service still hasn’t reached Edinburgh yet, running almost 5 hours late now. While I imagine it will be caped at Edinburgh, if it does go all the way to Aberdeen, it won’t get there until after 4am.

It's cancelled from Edinburgh (expected around 0130), but buses have apparently been arranged to Aberdeen.

There must be something wrong at Kings Cross as well now. Late arrivals have apparently been delayed waiting for platforms, one LNER terminated at Finsbury Park nearly three hours ago - but the train is still showing on the Up Fast outside Kings Cross, with only platforms 9 and 10 available.

Edit: things seem to have started moving at Kings Cross.

 

[Taunton]

I actually went round a lot of East Anglia today on business right through the heat - from London to Ipswich, Ely, Cambridge, back home again. Not a single delay, everything ran as normal, all arrival times as expected.

Went by car, you see. But on the radio as I worked around I heard of all sorts of gross disruption on the railways, many stranded, exhortations not to travel, etc. Not just one route but seemingly all the principal routes out of London.

How on earth did the railway, in comparison, engineer itself into such a fragile and not dependable state. Time was when the railway was seen as something of a national asset that could be relied on when the roads were blocked by various weather issues. The line to Buxton's retention in Beeching times was justified as maintaining contact there during winter snows. Nowadays it's the complete opposite, and weather of various extremes (even not that extreme) just blows the whole thing. You can see this readily by the way that the No 1 approach to any major weather disruption seems to be "get the buses out". Which are somehow readily available, staffed, when trains are not, and which seem to get through straightforwardly, when trains don't.

 

[Jozhua]

I wasn't actually referring to a scene of people casually sitting under trees in India while being sold cold beverages until the train was ready, although I'm sure that was very pleasant!... I was alluding more to the standard trains in many parts of the world that run for hours and days on end in hotter temperatures than today. It's not because the air con has packed up. There is no air con. And the way some people are carrying on about no air conditioning for a few hours (on a day they were told NOT TO TRAVEL) makes me wonder how the poor darlings get out of bed in the morning.

To be fair though, it's not always as simple as that. Firstly, it takes the body at least a little while to acclimatise and people may not be as used to the heat as they are in other countries. Secondly, the designs of the trains are going to be inherently different to be able to cope with the heat, even if they do lack air con. A well ventilated train with no air con in India for example is going to be a lot better than a sealed up Voyager with no air con in similar air temperatures. The fact UK TOCs seem more than willing to force people to sit prisoners in hot trains standing at a standstill, with little ventilation is also difficult.

There is also the fact that some people may have been doing the return legs of their journeys with no chance of extending hotel bookings etc. It also wouldn't surprise me if employers made people come into work despite the difficult travelling conditions.

 

[philthetube]

It is naively unreasonable to expect people to cancel their plans if they have been paid for already, or if their kids are newly off school and want/have been promised a day out, or if relatives are meeting, etc., etc. In short, people simply rarely view their particular journey as non-essential.
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The people caught In this mess will take note next time.

Hell! I do my best to get around independently, but the thought of trying to do all that with Multiple Sclerosis wouldn't appeal in the very least. My utmost sympathies to all involved, young and old, healthy and unhealthy, and profound thanks to all helping - you do see the best of humanity on these occasions, to counter the self-centered actions of a few, which are better forgotten.

You wouldn't be expected to, you would either be left on the train or taken off on a stretcher. Stuck on a nearly empty hot train and stuck on a packed one are two different animals.

Just an observation - GTR ran some shuttles Bedford to St Albans - largely for local flows , the same is that cross feeding to Watford or Hatfield was (exceptionally) not available.

LNW threw the towel in utterly and they could have run at least hourly to Watford to Milton Keynes (a) for local flows (b) to feed into the still operating DC lines and at a push onto the (empty) trains from Watford Met. The latter with a shuttle bus. Like I used to do when I was Operations Manager. Does nobody not think out of the box anymore. ? (my wife had to drive to MK to collect my son- who actually works for NR) - very poor show. Hope someone from LNW reads this.

Quite a few of the Underground Staff at Rickmansworth have bus licences, I have often thought it would be a good idea to have an arrangement with Arriva to take advantage of this, more of a problem now that the Watford depot has closed though.

 

[philthetube]

Is there anything happened today that may trigger an RAIB investigation.

 

[Mountain Man]

Oh yes they do...
Circa 63% and increasing of all UK rail journeys involve TfL Oyster / Contactless / back office hence in the southeast

You didnt say South East. You said South Eastern.

 

[Mountain Man]

A 20-mile drive in parts of London/south-east can quite easily take an hour or more at the wrong time of day.

Oh no. An hour long journey. How terrible.

Its like only London has traffic and congestion

 

[Aictos]

An amended service was implemented. All the TL services to Gatwick were terminated at Pancras HL as you suggested for instance.

As for terminating everything at St Pancras, were you proposing to decimate the service south STP then? Given obvious stock and crew constraints

The only services that was amended from start of service was EMT Corby services running shuttles to Kettering and half hourly Nottingham/Sheffield’s.

The amended TL service didn’t kick into after lunchtime with numerous cancellations on the Bedford to Brighton route unless you can count the few Rainhams running as Gillingham to Luton?

And no I don’t intend to wreck the TL South timetable but they do have three terminus in London to use and it is possible to run a split service as they HAVE done before with TL South turning back at St Pancras LL and TL North turning back at St Pancras HL as GN services can use Kings Cross.

 

[underbank]

A 20-mile drive in parts of London/south-east can quite easily take an hour or more at the wrong time of day.

There is a world outside London where there are towns and cities suffering daily congestion where a 5 mile drive takes an hour or more!

Unlike London, people have to do that drive every day because the public transport is poor due to not having had the cash thrown it that Londoners have enjoyed.

 

[underbank]

Many trains - though not all - also now have hot weather barriers for use when stranded away from a station. In essence, you apply a pre-formed mesh panel to a door and then pull the emergency egress, which allows people to come and get fresh air if they're struggling with the onboard conditions.

This is what they did on the Pendo at Camden. There were people at all the open doors desperately fanning themselves for over 2 hours whilst they were transferred to the voyager, all the while looking at the Camden yard and road just yards away. Surely getting them off into the yard and onto buses back would have been far quicker and less unpleasant. I can understand long delays when a train stops somewhere inaccesible, but I can't imagine a better/safer route from a train, other than a station, than tha Camden yard they were literally alongside.

 

[AM9]

Oh no. An hour long journey. How terrible.

Its like only London has traffic and congestion

How convenient that the non-home county contingent have regarded the 20-80 mile distance that I stated as just 20 miles. Never mind, just keep that chip carefully balanced.

 

[Mountain Man]

How convenient that the non-home county contingent have regarded the 20-80 mile distance that I stated as just 20 miles. Never mind, just keep that chip carefully balanced.

Plenty of people have daily commutes of 20 to 80 miles and traffic on roads like the M6 is as bad anywhere in London.

 

[EMD]

The people caught In this mess will take note next time.

This almost sounds like you are blaming customers for daring to travel and not the people in charge who are unable to think things through and design the infrastructure/rolling stock so that it is able to handle what is inevitably going to be a more regular occurrence in the future?

 

[hwl]

You didnt say South East. You said South Eastern.

I didn't actually say anything - the original poster AM9 you were responding to said "south-eastern uk" not "Southeastern" which is the LSER Ltd brand...

 

[whhistle]

One passenger at a time being helped to climb down from the Pendolino, over to the Voyager, climb up on board followed by staff handing their luggage up.

I don't see how it could be done any differently or faster really.

With a plank between the coaches?

Means you need guard rails but if the distance isn't too far and you have train crew on either side with helping hands.

Perhaps H&S have decided it's safer to amble people down a ladder (including turning away when it's a lady in a short skirt, even though she may fall off!), across a couple of metres of ballast and equipment, then back up another ladder.