Help....Duplicate Rail ticket used on bus

[Flamingo]

I have no problem with that.

Murderers get free legal representation; the prosecution have an array of professionals to turn to, while people who commit minor offences frequently only have strangers on the internet for help - and they often prefer just to make snide comments from the safety of their keyboard.

A persons legal representative is paid to believe their story (however implausible). Indeed, if aanybody tells their legal representative "I did it, but I want to plead not guilty" then the legal representative has to stand down rather than lie.

If anybody wants this level of unquestioning belief or advice, they have to pay for it. If they come onto an internet forum witl rail staff on it for free advice, then they can expect the rail staff (and others) to pick holes in their story, or indeed call them a criminal fare-dodger, if that is the logical conclusion from their sorry tale.

 

[jon0844]

Well put. As a person who has probably spent £35-40k on train travel in 10 years, I doubt most honest people are going to show any sympathy to these people either.

If I could have saved 1% or even just 0.5% from reduced fraud, I'd be happy.

And I'd gladly say that to their face too, not just from the security of my (on screen) keyboard (with an over zealous auto correct)

 

[Flamingo]

I do say it to their faces every day. I wish I didn't have to, but they make the choice, and if it is blatent, rather than an understandable mistake, I see nothing wrong with saying this. They know, they just don't expect to be told.

 

[jon0844]

They hope that the people around them will tell you to lay off, and perhaps pointing out a fraud quite clearly is better than trying to be all nice. There's a point where other passengers are less likely to support them and that's when they realise that the 'offender' is ripping them off as much as the railway.

I've seen people badly treated by revenue staff, even suffering quite obvious entrapment but they're far fewer than chancers and habitual fare evaders getting caught red handed and then claiming they're being unfairly treated. Sadly, sometimes getting away with it.

 

[snail]

I do say it to their faces every day. I wish I didn't have to, but they make the choice, and if it is blatent, rather than an understandable mistake, I see nothing wrong with saying this. They know, they just don't expect to be told.

I'm pleased that is the prevailing attitude here too when stories just don't seem to add up, or someone turns up saying "I know I'm wrong, tell me how to get out of it".

 

[34D]

Can I ask if help and advice should be so freely given if a hypothetical person may be 'guilty' and simply wants help to evade the full penalty? I'm not accusing any specific person of any deliberate law or rule breaking.

Any member is free to either comment on a thread or to not comment, as they wish.

You might have noticed a few days ago that one of the forum's senior members politely declined to proof-read a letter from someone who (quite rightly) didn't deserve his help.

 

[RJ]

So someone comes here to ask for help and it's ok to vilify them? Aimed at no one in particular, let he who is without sin cast the first stone - before taking the moral high ground, consider whether you've always been 100% honest when it comes to paying the fare.

Saying nothing at all is better than collaring someone because they got caught bang to rights.

 

[RPI]

The problem is that they confuse "nice" with "right".

Hell, we can all get a warm fuzzy feeling by walking through a train, giving free upgrades, telling everybody that the ticket irregularity doesn't matter, ignoring the fact they are on a peak train with a supersaver ticket, or three hours early with a missing railcard on their Advance ticket. It's great "customer service", and the guards who do this never get any complaints.

How right you are! I was always told that if you don't get complaints then you can't be doing your job properly.

 

[Flamingo]

So someone comes here to ask for help and it's ok to vilify them?

Yep.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How right you are! I was always told that if you don't get complaints then you can't be doing your job properly.

You have a different manager

 

[Ferret]

So someone comes here to ask for help and it's ok to vilify them? Aimed at no one in particular, let he who is without sin cast the first stone - before taking the moral high ground, consider whether you've always been 100% honest when it comes to paying the fare.

Saying nothing at all is better than collaring someone because they got caught bang to rights.

Well, I've not seen anyone being vilified RJ! I think some people do come on here under the illusion that we are miracle workers and can get people out of the hole that they have dug themselves. There was one last week in particular that I replied to just before I headed to my pit for some kip, and when I awoke the next morning, I found the thread had been pulled. It was the most blatant case of fare evasion I've seen, and I wasn't sure even an out of Court settlement was possible - and I said so, indeed just as I have in this thread.

It's a fine line RJ - we do have a duty (IMO) to be honest with people, rather than raise false hope. It's also true, that some people out there do struggle with hearing home truths - we've seen it on here before. And, if there is someone who has a problem being told the truth and enormity of the situation, then I question why they should waste our time asking us in the first place I'm afraid.

 

[Flamingo]

In some of the cases that appear, (like the one that started this thread), an out of court settlement is quite probably not even appropriate.

The abuse can be blatant, and if it was a serial shoplifter appearing on the site wanting a group hug and to be told how to get out of prosecution for theft, would the response be as "helpful"?

Fare evasion is seen as a "victimless" crime, and even the response on here (from some posters) is to minimise the seriousness of it.

I was talking to a legal friend about it a while ago, and he was of the opinion that every case should go to court - parliament has decided on the law, and penalties. The courts should be given the option of deciding what should be applied, not an administrator in a TOC, a desk sergeant in a BTP station, or a clerk in the CPS.

 

[snail]

So someone comes here to ask for help and it's ok to vilify them? Aimed at no one in particular, let he who is without sin cast the first stone - before taking the moral high ground, consider whether you've always been 100% honest when it comes to paying the fare.

Saying nothing at all is better than collaring someone because they got caught bang to rights.

So someone asks for advice in their situation and we keep quiet instead of suggesting it's their own fault for getting in that situation? That's not vilification, and attempts to do that are usually stamped on pretty quickly.

Do you think it's wrong to respond the way some have to people like the OP here who think there is a 'magic formula' for getting off these charges and disappear without a trace when they learn there isn't one? Some TOCs are particularly heavy-handed but fare avoidance has been around for over 100 years and doesn't appear to be going away. As it's effectively public money these people are taking I for one am happy to see the real offenders caught.

 

[RJ]

The person knows that they have done wrong and is clearly worried that there is an impending punishment. I appreciate that a few posts in the thread contain responses that are relevant to the questions the OP asked. However, some of the posts are downright unpleasant and have a somewhat superior slur on them, which are simply unnecessary.

Remember that this is supposed to be a pro-passenger environment. If someone has come here to be judged, then they would say as much in their first post. There is no point in posting things that purely serve to make the OP feel bad, without adding some information of substance that hasn't already been posted.

There is such a thing as being polite but firm in making a point.

 

[wellhouse]

So someone asks for advice in their situation and we keep quiet instead of suggesting it's their own fault for getting in that situation?

There are more subtle response options than just keeping quiet or vilification.

It is vital that this Forum continues as the best place to seek advice on Fares, Tickets & Routeing.

Yes... many posts have recurring themes of 'rushing for the train', 'rude staff', and 'honest mistakes', which provoke cynicism, but while it may be frustrating for RPIs on the Forum, it is wiser to respond to these OPs with less judgmental advice on their situation.

There are many other posts where passengers have either been unfairly treated by TOCs, or who have fallen foul of the complexities and inconsistencies of the system in good faith.

If new visitors come to the site, and browse The Forum only to find vilification as a typical response to enquiries, they will feel less inclined to post, and the Forum will diminish in value.

We rely on new posts to inform us of inconsistences and irregularities, so let's not discourage them.

 

[6Gman]

Isn't the problem with this thread that the OP appeared with a story that's vague in the extreme, and has failed to return to explain what exactly happened and what she hopes to learn?

 

[RJ]

If I was them, I wouldn't return either. I'm sure they got the impression that some of the posters/part time detectives on here would enjoy seeing them being hung, drawn and quartered for their crime.

 

[EM2]

...consider whether you've always been 100% honest when it comes to paying the fare.

I haven't previously commented as it's obvious that the OP doesn't have a leg to stand on.
I will say, however, that I have always paid the correct fare, and adhered to the validity of my tickets, even to the extent of correcting a clerk who sold me a child ticket that I wasn't entitled to, as a fresh-faced 17-year-old.

 

[Ferret]

If I was them, I wouldn't return either. I'm sure they got the impression that some of the posters/part time detectives on here would enjoy seeing them being hung, drawn and quartered for their crime.

Not at all - but I'm afraid that the OP was beyond our help. And it would be unfair of us to pretend otherwise. The only thing we maybe could've said was to seek urgent legal advice as to how mitigate the damage when the case inevitably reaches Court.

 

[rdwarr]

I once took a library book back on time but that is also completely irrelevant and unhelpful to the OP. This thread's going nowhere.

 

[Ferret]

This thread's going nowhere.

Very true.

 

[GadgetMan]

The OP sets the tone of thread by implying what they were doing is perfectly innocent and the Revenue Staff were in the wrong for not being taken in by their bull**** excuse.

If they'd come on here and been honest about the fact they were both using the same Season ticket fraudulently and were rightly (but regrettably in their mind) caught, and accepted the Inspectors interrogation was warranted they wouldn't get as much stick on here. I'm not suggesting they'd receive any more help as there is little that can be done in these situations of blatant fraud, but they wouldn't have as many people pointing out they are not innocent victims as there wouldn't be any need for it.