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I’d be very surprised if Manak or any other solicitor could convince them to do anything other than proceed with the prosecution.
You cannot do anything other than plead guilty, because you are. Any not guilty plea will just result in a higher fine due to the lack of reduction from early guilty plea.
GTR have no reason not to progress and following that dreadful letter, they absolutely will do.
But they have not, as yet, sent court papers so there’s still time to try and persuade them not to. The OP received inappropriate advice and there’s no harm in saying that to GTR in my view.
We've established that the letter sent by @Cclee, on the advice of a friend who is a solicitor, was poorly worded. Let's now concentrate on how a favourable outcome can be obtained.
Usual thing - we need the remaining details, which we don't have. E.g. what paperwork was issued on 15th January? Was it actually a Penalty Fare or not? 21 days are long past.
The solicitor may have envisaged a legal argument that, contrary to custom and practice, a Penalty Fare should have been issued in lieu of a byelaw prosecution, but I can't see how such a line of (unlikely) reasoning could ever extend to RORA which the train company really ought to pick out of caution given the letter (i.e. prove deliberate fare evasion so any potential problems using the byelaw are a non-issue).
But you can still send the original draft, just prefixing it with a note that you've taken alternative advice and adjusting it accordingly.
I agree this might be worth a try - GTR have a reputation on being reasonable about these things, if the 'offender' behaved reasonably - and the problem is they will see the reply sent as not 'reasonable' - but if @Cclee can only afford to do this themselves (ie without legal help) then this would be the approach to take I would think, as a 'last ditch' effort (plus the excellent added point by @Haywain in post #15)
If the OP can afford legal help then I would suggest asking for a quote from Manak Solicitors. I have no connection with the firm nor have ever used them.
Manak Solicitors: Skilled legal defence for fare evasion cases. Rely on our experienced team to protect your rights, challenge penalties, and guide you through the process.
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There was a recent case on here that the railway company concerned (not GTR but I think it was Northern Trains) were refusing to settle but Manak manged to secure a good outcome for the client despite things having gone in the wrong direction previously.
This was the case concerned - the posts towards the end give an idea of the sum required
Will I get a criminal record? If you're convicted, yes.
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and post #8 of this one may be informative - but it should be noted that cases involving TfL are always more difficult and this likely to incur more legal work / fees
Update 02/04/2025: Resolved - Issued a warning; contacted Manak Solicitors to represent me. Hello, This post is to let others know what happens from my experience, and any potential insights other members could perhaps provide. I am new to the forums, but after some initial research, I have...
www.railforums.co.uk
To give your friend the benefit of the doubt I can only assume they believed / did not check / misunderstood from what you told them that the matter involved a Penalty Fare which it didn't, and then gave advice not really relevant to the situation you were in. Perhaps a good friend might now feel they could help you with the costs involved in untangling this. But if they are a good friend, don't lose a friendship over it if you can avoid that.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
To forum commentators more generally I've just re -read the opening post and notice this sentence
I also don't think any original letters or documents were uploaded by @Cclee (or if so they are not there now) for us to study exact wording
It's somewhat water under the bridge now but what might this 'fine' have originally been?
- A Penalty Fare issued on the day at the ticket gate?
or
- some form of out of court settlement offer sent to the OP that they did not then pay?
or
- something else.
are we being harsh on the advice given by the OP's friend if a Penalty Fare was in fact initially issued? I think maybe some additional context and info might be of value here.
although of course as to where things now are 'we are where we are'.
@Cclee - you may have other things to focus on now to sort this out - but could you tell us more about what exactly happened when you were stopped and questioned at the time of travel, and what paperwork you received then (if any), and subsequently?
Thank you everyone for you words of advice on this matter. Currently in discussions to sort this out professionally. From what has been said, it’s clear I need a specialist to sort this out professionally.
To answer your questions, upon being stopped I was completely honest with the inspector as to the fact I couldn’t afford the full train fare and bought a shorter ticket. I was polite and respectful. Gave my details and was asked if I could pay a fine right there, which I couldn’t. I was given a slip, received the Notice of Intention to Prosecute, sent that bad letter and now in this position. So, a sequence of poor decision making on my end.
To clarify, this would have been a Penalty Fare, which would have avoided either an actual fine (if found guilty) or out of court settlement (if GTR are prepared to offer you such a settlement, to avoid the matter going to court)
Thank you everyone for you words of advice on this matter. Currently in discussions to sort this out professionally. From what has been said, it’s clear I need a specialist to sort this out professionally.
To answer your questions, upon being stopped I was completely honest with the inspector as to the fact I couldn’t afford the full train fare and bought a shorter ticket. I was polite and respectful. Gave my details and was asked if I could pay a fine right there, which I couldn’t. I was given a slip, received the Notice of Intention to Prosecute, sent that bad letter and now in this position. So, a sequence of poor decision making on my end.
If you were given the chance to pay a Penalty Fare then and there (but are you sure you were not asked a question like 'did you have enough money to pay for a fare for your full journey?' however, as that is one of the standard questions people tend to get asked) you have had very bad luck as a consequences of not accepting that on the day. A Penalty Fare is often not deemed appropriate to issue for cases of suspected deliberate fare evasion - which is what your purchase of a short ticket to Radlett to get through the barriers at the start of your journey would have pointed towards, so it would have been good luck to have been offered one.
It's water under the bridge now, but a Penalty Fare is the least worst option you could have been offered in my personal view (apart from being let off with a verbal warning which would not be likely to happen given your ticket). A Penalty Fare can be dealt with for £50 - plus the costs of the correct fare, if paid promptly (otherwise £100), does not have to be paid on the spot, and comes with rights of Appeal, which can prolong the payment deadline whilst an Appeal is considered, creating more time to save up the £50 etc.
Any other option offered or decided on other than a Penalty Fare will almost always cost more - eg a Ticket Irregularity Report will end up with court prosecution at worst, or at best likely an out of court settlement typically costing the fare plus circa £150 'admin' fee - which is where you might have managed to get to with the original advice form here.
So if offered a Penalty Fare one should always accept that offer because anything else is likely to cost more in the long term, and does not come with any rights of Appeal either.
You had further bad luck by getting incorrect advice which then resulted in an out of court settlement request being rejected / not made.
I do hope any further help you can get will help your resolve this without prosecution, as you do have my sympathy with the way this has escalated in terms of the cost this will now involve I fear. You need a bit of good luck, but hopefully things will work out.
I wanted to give you all an update on the situation. I took the advice to speak with Manak Solicitors and Samir was incredible. We talked through what I needed to do for him to be able to take this case forward to Govia Thameslink and in doing so, he managed to get the case closed with Out of Court Settlement this morning.
He has been astonishing, empathetic, clear and supportive. I highly highly recommend Samir and Manak Solicitors to anyone in need of help with a Fare Evasion case. Get the right advice from someone with the correct knowledge.
I also want to say thank you to each one of you on this forum, you gave incredible advice both initially and then in the last couple of days. I hope anyone who gets into a situation like this and learn from my own mistakes.
I wanted to give you all an update on the situation. I took the advice to speak with Manak Solicitors and Samir was incredible. We talked through what I needed to do for him to be able to take this case forward to Govia Thameslink and in doing so, he managed to get the case closed with Out of Court Settlement this morning.
He has been astonishing, empathetic, clear and supportive. I highly highly recommend Samir and Manak Solicitors to anyone in need of help with a Fare Evasion case. Get the right advice from someone with the correct knowledge.
I also want to say thank you to each one of you on this forum, you gave incredible advice both initially and then in the last couple of days. I hope anyone who gets into a situation like this and learn from my own mistakes.
Thanks for update and your words of thanks. Very good to hear you have been able to resolve this so quickly now.
I'm only sorry that the whole thing will have cost you a fair sum of money now, but I suspect it's a weight off your mind at least. I hope it does not strain your friendship with the friend who gave you advice before that turned out to not be for the best. It's generally well worth maintaining a friendship despite such set backs.
Thanks for update and your words of thanks. Very good to hear you have been able to resolve this so quickly now.
I'm only sorry that the whole thing will have cost you a fair sum of money now, but I suspect it's a weight off your mind now. I hope it does not strain your friendship with the friend who gave you advice before that turned out to not be for the best. It's generally well worth maintaining a friendship despite such set backs.
I wanted to give you all an update on the situation. I took the advice to speak with Manak Solicitors and Samir was incredible. We talked through what I needed to do for him to be able to take this case forward to Govia Thameslink and in doing so, he managed to get the case closed with Out of Court Settlement this morning.
He has been astonishing, empathetic, clear and supportive. I highly highly recommend Samir and Manak Solicitors to anyone in need of help with a Fare Evasion case. Get the right advice from someone with the correct knowledge.
I also want to say thank you to each one of you on this forum, you gave incredible advice both initially and then in the last couple of days. I hope anyone who gets into a situation like this and learn from my own mistakes.
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