HELP Permit to travel...What rights do I have?

[harry42]

Right...Me(child) +2 adults went from Beeston to Leicester today. At Beeston, we went to the ticket office. We said this: "2 adults with senior railcards and 1 child return to Leicester" "Yup...£17.56 please." "OK! Fine!" EMT 222 rolled in on time at 09:08 and we got a table.

Conductor came round and we showed tickets. Conductor: "Got railcards please?" Gave 2 senior railcards. "NO, not them, the family rail-card" the conductor replied. "This is what Beeston sold us." we replied. Conductor: "You should've checked and you will be issued with a £70 penalty fare. I'll let you off but come with me in Leicester."

Leicester...conductor found us, 'dragged' us through the gates and to the booking office. He then ran off back to the train. At the booking office after the very helpful man gave us his apologies () and changed the 2 senior tickets back, but took my and gave me a 'permit to travel.'

On the way back, we weren't allowed through the ticket gates as the booking office clerks signature didn't match the clerks we have.

30 MINS LATER...they decided it did. We had now missed our train and missed the once an hour bus connection at Beeston.

AND...after all that the couductor wasn't even bothered on the way back about railcards.

SO...2 questions:

• Are we entitled to a refund after missing the train?
• Why weren't our railcards asked for on the way back? Is it because we could've been frauding EMT to London on the way there but on the way back it was terminating in Nottingham?

Looking on the bright-side: I'm excited about my permit to travel

 

[bb21]

• Are we entitled to a refund after missing the train?
• Why weren't our railcards asked for on the way back? Is it because we could've been frauding EMT to London on the way there but on the way back it was terminating in Nottingham?

I think you should be at least entitled to some compensation for missing your train due to mix-ups by staff. I think the best way forward is actually to write to them explaining the circumstances and expressing your disappointment.

Can you upload a picture of the Permit to Travel please? I am wondering what it looks like and must say that I am surprised you are given one of those.

 

[yorkie]

Right...Me(child) +2 adults went from Beeston to Leicester today. At Beeston, we went to the ticket office. We said this: "2 adults with senior railcards and 1 child return to Leicester" "Yup...£17.56 please." "OK! Fine!" EMT 222 rolled in on time at 09:08 and we got a table.

Conductor came round and we showed tickets. Conductor: "Got railcards please?" Gave 2 senior railcards. "NO, not them, the family rail-card" the conductor replied. "This is what Beeston sold us." we replied. Conductor: "You should've checked and you will be issued with a £70 penalty fare. I'll let you off but come with me in Leicester."

Leicester...conductor found us, 'dragged' us through the gates and to the booking office. He then ran off back to the train. At the booking office after the very helpful man gave us his apologies () and changed the 2 senior tickets back, but took my and gave me a 'permit to travel.'

On the way back, we weren't allowed through the ticket gates as the booking office clerks signature didn't match the clerks we have.

30 MINS LATER...they decided it did. We had now missed our train and missed the once an hour bus connection at Beeston.

AND...after all that the couductor wasn't even bothered on the way back about railcards.

SO...2 questions:

• Are we entitled to a refund after missing the train?
• Why weren't our railcards asked for on the way back? Is it because we could've been frauding EMT to London on the way there but on the way back it was terminating in Nottingham?

Looking on the bright-side: I'm excited about my permit to travel

You are, in my opinion entitled to:

1) As a minimum delay compensation for any delay experienced, and/or a full refund. Ideally it should be a full refund and further compensation.
2) An apology
3) A promise that steps will be taken to reduce the chances of this happening again.

I am happy to proof read a letter. If you do not get an adequate response, then I urge you to refer the matter to both Passenger Focus and perhaps your MP.

Unfortunately some staff at EMT are out of control, and behave in a shocking manner. I know some staff who work for EMT, and some of the stories about the conduct of some of the managers is disgusting and pathetic.

There's something rotten about the culture of that place. Staff and customers alike are bullied by certain individuals, and it's more than just one or two rotten apples.

Make sure you pursue this; don't let them fob you off.

 

[island]

I agree, but it is recommended you check your tickets at the time of purchase.

 

[Deerfold]

I agree, but it is recommended you check your tickets at the time of purchase.

Presumably the senior tickets were the right price. The only indication of a problem would be FAM in the discount field - and CHFAM on the child ticket. Are passengers supposed to know all about these discount codes?

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Would Harry have been allowed to purchase platform tickets just to get through the barriers?

 

[yorkie]

Presumably the senior tickets were the right price. The only indication of a problem would be FAM in the discount field - and CHFAM on the child ticket. Are passengers supposed to know all about these discount codes?

Not all staff know what discount code means (notably FCC RPIs), so I am not quite sure how the rail industry expects passengers to know. Yet they do!

The rail industry really is unique in treating passengers in such ways that would not happen in any other service industry, and in some cases expecting passengers to know more than some of the staff.

It's absolutely bonkers - welcome to the world of railway ticketing, where you can be given a criminal conviction and/or detained without intending to do anything wrong whatsoever!

Nothing really surprises me any more...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would Harry have been allowed to purchase platform tickets just to get through the barriers?

But he wanted to travel.

The problem could not have been foreseen, but if it had been foreseeable, then I agree that asking for a platform ticket would have avoided that particular confrontation (not that I would condone asking for a platform ticket when the intention is to travel under normal circumstances, but to avoid an incorrect refusal of legitimate travel, well, people can make up their own minds on that one!!)

 

[AlexS]

It won't be a permit to travel in the sense you are probably thinking. It will be an ATT (Authority to Travel) which is effectively a free, handwritten ticket signed by an authorised person allowing you to travel without a ticket. They are numbered and issued from a book with multiple copies for audit purposes etc.

Basically the booking office changed the two adult tickets to SNR discounts and presumably couldn't change the child ticket for something appropriate so issued the ATT to allow travel at the discounted rate already paid as a gesture.

 

[bb21]

It won't be a permit to travel in the sense you are probably thinking. It will be an ATT (Authority to Travel) which is effectively a free, handwritten ticket signed by an authorised person allowing you to travel without a ticket. They are numbered and issued from a book with multiple copies for audit purposes etc.

Basically the booking office changed the two adult tickets to SNR discounts and presumably couldn't change the child ticket for something appropriate so issued the ATT to allow travel at the discounted rate already paid as a gesture.

I was thinking along those lines, but wanted to make sure that it is what the OP were talking about.

It would make much more sense.

 

[Muzer]

This is why I never trust people at ticket offices and will always use a TVM if it will sell me the ticket, or booking online if it won't.


It's just a shame that it's impossible to get the full range of tickets and excesses from either of these methods.

 

[harry42]

You are, in my opinion entitled to:

1) As a minimum delay compensation for any delay experienced, and/or a full refund. Ideally it should be a full refund and further compensation.
2) An apology
3) A promise that steps will be taken to reduce the chances of this happening again.

I am happy to proof read a letter. If you do not get an adequate response, then I urge you to refer the matter to both Passenger Focus and perhaps your MP.

Unfortunately some staff at EMT are out of control, and behave in a shocking manner. I know some staff who work for EMT, and some of the stories about the conduct of some of the managers is disgusting and pathetic.

There's something rotten about the culture of that place. Staff and customers alike are bullied by certain individuals, and it's more than just one or two rotten apples.

Make sure you pursue this; don't let them fob you off.

Hi,

Spoke to a very nice man from EMT and they have given me £25 compensation and there deepest apologies (I was ready for a lot of action!!!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It won't be a permit to travel in the sense you are probably thinking. It will be an ATT (Authority to Travel) which is effectively a free, handwritten ticket signed by an authorised person allowing you to travel without a ticket. They are numbered and issued from a book with multiple copies for audit purposes etc.

Basically the booking office changed the two adult tickets to SNR discounts and presumably couldn't change the child ticket for something appropriate so issued the ATT to allow travel at the discounted rate already paid as a gesture.

Exactly what he did!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is why I never trust people at ticket offices and will always use a TVM if it will sell me the ticket, or booking online if it won't.


It's just a shame that it's impossible to get the full range of tickets and excesses from either of these methods.

The bloke at Beeston must be in-competent! Why can't I have his job? I'd do better!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would Harry have been allowed to purchase platform tickets just to get through the barriers?

I think that would confuse the staff even more!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks for all the help!

 

[GadgetMan]

The bloke at Beeston must be in-competent! Why can't I have his job? I'd do better!

I agree you were treated poorly, however unless you have regular unsatisfactory dealings with this particular clerk at Beeston then your comment is unfair. All of us in whatever job at some point make mistakes, it's only human.

 

[sheff1]

This is why I never trust people at ticket offices and will always use a TVM if it will sell me the ticket, or booking online if it won't.

Same here. Makes me smile when some on here say "if in doubt ask at the ticket office" - not something I would ever try at Sheffield

Good to see the OP got satisfactory redress without any hassle.

 

[bb21]

Same here. Makes me smile when some on here say "if in doubt ask at the ticket office" - not something I would ever try at Sheffield

It is difficult to generalise.

The example of TVMs selling invalid tickets at Blackfriars mentioned in another thread could be easily resolved by purchasing the ticket from the ticket office.

I have a funny feeling that you have suffered Sheffield ticket office's shoddy practices for too long.

 

[sheff1]

I have a funny feeling that you have suffered Sheffield ticket office's shoddy practices for too long.

You could be right

 

[reb0118]

My solution as a guard would have been to endorse the two adult tickets on the back with "Issuing Error ~ correct fare paid ~ valid with SNR R/C No XXXXX".

The CHFAM discounted ticket could easily been excessed to the CHILD rate.

Mistakes happen.