Help please: class 25 hauled motorial on the Berks & Hants line 1975

[Czesziafan]

I have recently acquired a David Canning photo of a pair of double headed class 25's on an express passenger service passing Midgham on the Berks & Hants line, apparently taken in August 1975. According to Mr Canning's note on the back this was a FO Newton Abbott to Dover motorail service. Unusually, although the picture was clearly taken in the late afternoon, the stock includes 3 Mark 1 sleepers! No tail of motorail flats or vans is visible in the shot, and the loco headcode appears to be 1083 although the last 2 digits are partially obscured having not rolled up fully onto the display panel of the leading engine. Unfortunately the loco numbers cannot be discerned.

Pairs of class 25's must have been pretty rare on the B&H: was this the diagrammed haulage for this train or were the pair deputising for an unavailable Western or 47? I have never come across a Newton Abbott - Dover motorail service before - is Mr Canning correct in his attribution? Can anyone throw any light or provide any more information on this service please?

 

[Bevan Price]

I have recently acquired a David Canning photo of a pair of double headed class 25's on an express passenger service passing Midgham on the Berks & Hants line, apparently taken in August 1975. According to Mr Canning's note on the back this was a FO Newton Abbott to Dover motorail service. Unusually, although the picture was clearly taken in the late afternoon, the stock includes 3 Mark 1 sleepers! No tail of motorail flats or vans is visible in the shot, and the loco headcode appears to be 1083 although the last 2 digits are partially obscured having not rolled up fully onto the display panel of the leading engine. Unfortunately the loco numbers cannot be discerned.

Pairs of class 25's must have been pretty rare on the B&H: was this the diagrammed haulage for this train or were the pair deputising for an unavailable Western or 47? I have never come across a Newton Abbott - Dover motorail service before - is Mr Canning correct in his attribution? Can anyone throw any light or provide any more information on this service please?

Cannot answet the question directly, but some 25s were allocated in the West Country during the mid 1970s or early 1980s.

 

[Czesziafan]

Cannot answet the question directly, but some 25s were allocated in the West Country during the mid 1970s or early 1980s.

The sleepers in the rake of stock are puzzling: I would not have thought it would take half a day and all night to get from Newton Abbott to Dover!

 

[bluenoxid]

I have recently acquired a David Canning photo of a pair of double headed class 25's on an express passenger service passing Midgham on the Berks & Hants line, apparently taken in August 1975. According to Mr Canning's note on the back this was a FO Newton Abbott to Dover motorail service. Unusually, although the picture was clearly taken in the late afternoon, the stock includes 3 Mark 1 sleepers! No tail of motorail flats or vans is visible in the shot, and the loco headcode appears to be 1083 although the last 2 digits are partially obscured having not rolled up fully onto the display panel of the leading engine. Unfortunately the loco numbers cannot be discerned.

Pairs of class 25's must have been pretty rare on the B&H: was this the diagrammed haulage for this train or were the pair deputising for an unavailable Western or 47? I have never come across a Newton Abbott - Dover motorail service before - is Mr Canning correct in his attribution? Can anyone throw any light or provide any more information on this service please?

Timetable 30 suggests a FO 1540 from Newton Abbott to Dover, which arrived late evening then operated back at 2300.

1975 Motorail | 1975 Motorail P13

1975 Motorail brochure page 13. 27. Bristol to St Austell. 28. Crewe to Newton Abbot / St Austell. 29. Newcastle to Newton Abbot. 30. Dover to Newton Abbot / St Austell. 31. Newcastle to Bristol. 32. Newcastle to Plymouth.

andygibbs.zenfolio.com

 

[Czesziafan]

Timetable 30 suggests a FO 1540 from Newton Abbott to Dover, which arrived late evening then operated back at 2300.

1975 Motorail | 1975 Motorail P13

1975 Motorail brochure page 13. 27. Bristol to St Austell. 28. Crewe to Newton Abbot / St Austell. 29. Newcastle to Newton Abbot. 30. Dover to Newton Abbot / St Austell. 31. Newcastle to Bristol. 32. Newcastle to Plymouth.

andygibbs.zenfolio.com

That's very interesting thanks. So the sleepers were on the down working to St Austell, and would have been empty/locked during the daytime up journey. I can't imagine it was a particularly popular service given the times at Dover: if the motorist was using a continental motorail service on the other side of the channel there would be a considerable wait as all southbound departures were in the early evening, with northbound arrivals in the morning.

 

[Taunton]

Presumably this is the D. E. Canning whose photographs long appeared in Ian Allan magazines, who I think was a signalman at Newbury, and would have a bit of an idea of anything unusual coming.

Motorail services ran on odd days which interleaved, they had their own stock and moved it round the country as required on their own trains, so sticking a few sleepers ecs on a day service between two Motorail hubs, which both Newton and Dover were, would seem straightforward, having maybe worked south on the Stirling-Newton overnight, and needed next night on Dover-Stirling.

1975 was when the WR was rather short of power, last Westerns were going, HSTs not arrived yet, so putting 2x25 (recently arrived) on a less time critical service was just like the old 1960s days on summer Saturdays when the Laira foreman, having used the D600s, pulled out two D6300 in multiple from the back road and hid while the clerk told the reporting crew for a Birmingham relief what awaited them. Time was when a Hymek could have handled the Motorail on its own no problem, but Marylebone Road HQ decided they didn't want hydraulics.

 

[CW2]

I would have been a trainspotter at Reading back then,and can confirm that 25s - either singly or in pairs - were quite rare. I don't recall ever seeing one on passenger at Reading, only seeing them on freights from Washwood Heath or other distant exotic places. I did see them working Exeter - Barnstable though. I've no recollection of the Motorail service to Dover.

 

[30907]

Looking at the site linked above, it only ran for a couple of seasons - I hadn't realised it existed, either!

I would have been a trainspotter at Reading back then,and can confirm that 25s - either singly or in pairs - were quite rare. I don't recall ever seeing one on passenger at Reading, only seeing them on freights from Washwood Heath or other distant exotic places. I did see them working Exeter - Barnstable though. I've no recollection of the Motorail service to Dover.

 

[Czesziafan]

I would have been a trainspotter at Reading back then,and can confirm that 25s - either singly or in pairs - were quite rare. I don't recall ever seeing one on passenger at Reading, only seeing them on freights from Washwood Heath or other distant exotic places. I did see them working Exeter - Barnstable though. I've no recollection of the Motorail service to Dover.

Washwood Heath - exotic beyond imagination!