Help Required - Ticketing options from Epsom to Potters Bar

[paul5464]

Hi All,

Newbie to the forum but in need of advice. I live in Epsom, Surrey, just outside zone 6. Until now, have been working in central London so have been buying a monthly 1 - 6 travel card with Epsom extension, currently £203.60.

Unfortunately, my job has just been moved for the foreseeable future to Potters Bar. National rail website says 'no season ticket available'. The routing I'd like to take is Epsom - Vauxhall (SW Trains), Vauxhall to Finsbury Park (tube), Finsbury Park to Potters Bar (FCC). From what I can make out POtters Bar is just outside zone 6, in a similar way to Epsom being just outside zone 6.

Is there any way I can "extend" my Epsom and zones 1 - 6 travel card to pay for the extra distance to Potters Bar? Any idea on costing?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Paul

 

[A60K]

You can add a monthly from Hadley Wood (the last station in Zone 6 - the limit of your Travelcard's validity) to Potters Bar for £63.40, making the total £267.00 per month.

Incidentally, the doing the tickets other way round works out much more expensive and less flexible - Potters Bar to Zones 1-6 monthly Travelcard at £254.30, plus a monthly season either Epsom to Ewell West at £36.10 or to Ewell East at £37.70, losing you the route choice that you get with Epsom to Zones 1-6.

 

[paul5464]

Great - And does that mean I can get any FCC service from Finsbury Park to Potters Bar or would there be any restrictions? Would I have to take a train that stops in Hadley Wood?

Once again, thanks for the prompt answer and your kind help

P

You can add a monthly from Hadley Wood (the last station in Zone 6 - the limit of your Travelcard's validity) to Potters Bar for £63.40, making the total £267.00 per month.

 

[A60K]

As I understand it, according to the National Conditions of Carriage you would need to be on a train that stopped at Hadley Wood for the combination of these two season tickets to be valid.

However, I'm sure someone else has encountered a similar situation on the same line (possibly jonmorris0844), and FCC said that it was OK to them to combine a Zones 1-6 Travelcard with a point-to-point season and to travel on a train which doesn't stop at the point where you switch from one ticket to another.

I've had a quick search, but can't find the thread. Hopefully one of the original posters involved in that discussion, or another ticketing expert, will be along shortly

(Welcome, by the way, and thanks for the thanks!)

 

[paul5464]

Once again, thank you for coming back so quickly and I await further comment.

For clarity, I absolutely would not want to do anything 'dodgy' and would never want to put myself in a position where there was even a whiff of a suggestion that I might be attempting fare evasion of any sort. Naturally, I want to pay the minimum legit fare for the journey I am undertaking. Therefore, I wonder, if FCC were (kindly) prepared to waive the strict interpretation of the National Conditions of Carriage, would they be prepared to do that in writing that could be pointed to in the event of any subsequent challenge?

Kind regards

Paul

As I understand it, according to the National Conditions of Carriage you would need to be on a train that stopped at Hadley Wood for the combination of these two season tickets to be valid.

However, I'm sure someone else has encountered a similar situation on the same line (possibly jonmorris0844), and FCC said that it was OK to them to combine a Zones 1-6 Travelcard with a point-to-point season and to travel on a train which doesn't stop at the point where you switch from one ticket to another.

I've had a quick search, but can't find the thread. Hopefully one of the original posters involved in that discussion, or another ticketing expert, will be along shortly

(Welcome, by the way, and thanks for the thanks!)

 

[A60K]

Therefore, I wonder, if FCC were (kindly) prepared to waive the strict interpretation of the National Conditions of Carriage, would they be prepared to do that in writing that could be pointed to in the event of any subsequent challenge?

I believe they did confirm in writing to the person who originally posted about it - and I remember seeing an FCC notice at Finsbury Park station a year or two ago along similar lines. I think that might have related to using a Travelcard on Oyster together with a paper point-to-point season, but if that was the case then the principle should remain the same with a Travelcard on paper.

Hopefully someone will be online tomorrow to confirm the position.

 

[John @ home]

Is there any way I can "extend" my Epsom and zones 1 - 6 travel card to pay for the extra distance to Potters Bar?

There was a thread on uk.railway recently which indicated that the Pricing Manager for the appropriate train company will create a season ticket fare for a situation like this.

From what I remember, the price for a monthly season Epsom - Potters Bar route London Zones 1-6 Travelcard would be calculated:

Epsom - London Zones 1-6 Travelcard route Any Permitted monthly season £203.60
plus Potters Bar - London Zones 1-6 Travelcard route Any Permitted monthly season £254.30
minus London Zones 1-6 Travelcard monthly season £182.80

This would give a monthly price of £275.10. The ticket would be issued on Travelcard stock.

Can someone with access to railway industry instructions please confirm whether this is still the correct approach?

If your local train company is reluctant to create a season ticket, I think London Travelwatch has encountered the issue and will offer advice.

 

[jopsuk]

Incidentally, if the change in workplace is for 24 months or less, you'll be able to claim back the cost of the additional travel from your employer.

 

[paul5464]

Thank you very much for your reply, John at Home. Genuinely appreciated. I think the logic of the monthly pricing structure for this journey that you outline makes sense.

You mention approaching the relevant rail company. In your experience, which would be the best one to start with? South West Trains who provide the Epsom to Vauxhall leg, London underground or FCC?

Kindest regards

Paul

There was a thread on uk.railway recently which indicated that the Pricing Manager for the appropriate train company will create a season ticket fare for a situation like this.

From what I remember, the price for a monthly season Epsom - Potters Bar route London Zones 1-6 Travelcard would be calculated:This would give a monthly price of £275.10. The ticket would be issued on Travelcard stock.

Can someone with access to railway industry instructions please confirm whether this is still the correct approach?

If your local train company is reluctant to create a season ticket, I think London Travelwatch has encountered the issue and will offer advice.

 

[Deerfold]

From what I remember, the price for a monthly season Epsom - Potters Bar route London Zones 1-6 Travelcard would be calculated:This would give a monthly price of £275.10. The ticket would be issued on Travelcard stock.

Can someone with access to railway industry instructions please confirm whether this is still the correct approach?

If your local train company is reluctant to create a season ticket, I think London Travelwatch has encountered the issue and will offer advice.

I suspect the final price will be higher - the amount that should be deducted will be the travelcard component of the fare so this is not paid twice, but this will be less than the £182 which is the price of a standalone travelcard.

 

[glynn80]

Can someone with access to railway industry instructions please confirm whether this is still the correct approach?

This is correct.

The FRPP goes into very specific detail on this topic as follows:

Season Tickets for journeys via Zone 1 between stations which are both outside the Fare Zones area

Season Tickets issued for travel between two stations which are both outside the Fare Zones area, and which include cross-London travel via Zone 1 using Transport for London Services, must be issued as a Travelcard Season and routed ‘LONDON ZONES 1-6’. They include unlimited travel throughout the Zones 1-6 area.

Prices for journeys that are not shown in your TIS or the Fares Finder can be calculated as follows:

1. Find the 7-Day Travelcard (7TS) fare from the Origin to LONDON ZONES 1-6.

2. Find the 7-Day Travelcard (7TS) fare from the Destination to LONDON ZONES 1-6.

3. Add the above two 7-Day Travelcard fares together.

4. Deduct the Inboundary 7-Day Travelcard fare for Zones 1-6 (currently £47·60).

The resulting amount is the 7-Day fare for the throughout journey from Out-boundary origin to the Out-boundary destination, via Zone 1. For longer validities, multiply this amount by the Season Ticket Period Factors and round up to the next 10p.

5. Issue the ticket as a Travelcard Season and with route LONDON ZONES 1-6 (route code 00923).

6. For First Class, follow the same procedure but add together the relevant two First Class Travelcard Season fares (7TF) from the Origin and the Destination to London Zones 1-6, and deduct £71·40.

Worked Example: Season ticket between Slough-Chelmsford Essex

A customer wants a monthly Season ticket from Slough to Chelmsford.

No Season Ticket via route 00923 LONDON ZONES 1-6 is priced in the Fares Finder.

Look up 7TS fare from SLOUGH to LONDON ZONES 1-6: e.g. 7TS = £65.90

Look up 7TS fare from CHELMSFORD ESSEX to LONDON ZONES 1-6: e.g. 7TS = £94.50

Add these fares and deduct inboundary fare for Zones 1-6:

£65.90 + £94.50 = £160.40

£160.40 - £47.60 = £112.80

The weekly 7TS fare from Slough to Chelmsford is £112.80. Multiply this by the Period Factor for one month (3.84) and round up to the next 10p: £112.80 x 3.84 = £433.152, rounded £433.20.

Issue the ticket as a Travelcard Season between Slough and Chelmsford, routed via LONDON ZONES 1-6, using monthly Travelcard ticket stock.

HTH.

 

[paul5464]

Thank you very much.

So, if I calculate right for my situation :

203.6 (Epsom - 1-6 Travel Card) +
254.3 (Potters Bar 1-6 Travel card)
=457.9

Less
182.78 (£47.6*monthly factor of 3.84)

Giving a monthly grand total of

£275.12




Kind regards

Paul

This is correct.

The FRPP goes into very specific detail on this topic as follows:



HTH.