Help with HMCTS baliffs

[WesternLancer]

Sorry to hear getting the SD done has been so difficult.

I think once that is in you could contact the railway company to let them know what’s happening as I suggested up thread, if you haven’t done that yet.

Once the SD is in (or served on he court) I'm not sure which is the correct term - I suspect the clock is ticking quite rapidly to a new court hearing - this is your window of opportunity to request the train company consider an out of court settlement if you can persuade them to do so - which I think there is a good chance of achieving.

But that time window will be short so anything you can do now to get ahead of that is, I think, worth doing.

So don't take your eye off the ball of the SD - but I think, unless you have already done so, prepare a letter to send to the railway prosecution team to tell them what you are doing and why (ie you were homeless of no fixed abode and never received the original paperwork they sent, but had you done so would have responded and co-operated with them. That you are doing an SD as a consequence of that but are anxious to resolve the matter with the Railway without it needing to go back to court).

I'd suggest you post a draft of such a letter here before sending it but it might help 'prepare the ground' for your request to settle it out of court when the SD has been accepted by the court.

It seems to me that it's very much in your interest to get ahead of this with the railway company as their timescale to deal with correspondence are not fast, but the court process might be quicker, which gives you limited time to achieve the out of court settlement. So it seems to me anything you can do to get ahead of this will help.

 

[PhonyKangaroo]

Once you and the solicitor have signed the SD it needs to be served on the court.

How long do I have to take it in once it’s signed, is that included within the 21 days as well?

 

[Puffing Devil]

How long do I have to take it in once it’s signed, is that included within the 21 days as well?

You have 21 days from the time you became aware of the matter to get the SD to the court.

 

[PhonyKangaroo]

You have 21 days from the time you became aware of the matter to get the SD to the court.

Okay, the 21st day for me is Monday would it be okay for me to bring it in on Monday?

Also, it’s got go to to the court that prosecuted me correct?

 

[island]

Okay, the 21st day for me is Monday would it be okay for me to bring it in on Monday?

You will not be able to bring anything into any court this Monday, as courts don't open on bank holidays.

Best to get it posted today so that it'll be deemed received on Friday, or take it to the court before the weekend.

 

[WesternLancer]

How long do I have to take it in once it’s signed, is that included within the 21 days as well?

are you a different person than the OP who started this thread? as it's a bit confusing who is asking for advice here.

 

[island]

are you a different person than @xamberlouise who started this thread? as it's a bit confusing who is asking for advice here.

It appears to be the one person who changed username partway.

 

[PhonyKangaroo]

You will not be able to bring anything into any court this Monday, as courts don't open on bank holidays.

Best to get it posted today so that it'll be deemed received on Friday, or take it to the court before the weekend.

Wow, I hadn’t even realised it was a bank holiday on Monday. I will get it all sorted before the weekend then. I’m glad I asked now.

are you a different person than @ who started this thread? as it's a bit confusing who is asking for advice here.

Its still me, I just had mods change my username after another user suggested it.

Also if you could edit my original username out your msg id appreciate it, as it’s the same as my social media.

 

[WesternLancer]

Wow, I hadn’t even realised it was a bank holiday on Monday. I will get it all sorted before the weekend then. I’m glad I asked now.

I assume it's vital the court get it on time - so if you are posting it I suggest you need to use Next Day Guaranteed delivery (or take it in person) - and track it on the day so you know it gets there - ie gets there by or on friday at the latest

Its still me, I just had mods change my username after another user suggested it.

Thanks for explaining

Also if you could edit my original username out your msg id appreciate it, as it’s the same as my social media.

Done

 

[PhonyKangaroo]

Hi everyone,

I dropped the Stat Dec off and sent the letter to Govia the same day via tracked special delivery, it was signed for and received next day. But I haven’t heard anything at all? And I’m getting abit worried. It’s been almost 2 weeks.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone,

I dropped the Stat Dec off and sent the letter to Govia the same day via tracked special delivery, it was signed for and received next day. But I haven’t heard anything at all? And I’m getting abit worried. It’s been almost 2 weeks.

can you post a copy (without any personal details) of what you sent to Govia? It might be helpful to see that.

I'm assuming you have not had any dates from the court about a new hearing yet for example?

 

[PhonyKangaroo]

can you post a copy (without any personal details) of what you sent to Govia? It might be helpful to see that.

I'm assuming you have not had any dates from the court about a new hearing yet for example?

I don’t have a copy of the exact letter to hand, it had written it someone’s else’s PC, as I don’t have a printer, but I can get another copy to share with you possibly tomorrow. It was along the lines of, I had only recently found out about the prosecution, briefly explaining why I hadn’t found out sooner, apologising and explaining I had submitted a stat dec and would appreciate the opportunity to settle out of court.

I reicevd another email today regarding the hearing on the 28th, then rang the original court not realising this hearing is actually at Westminster court, and was given an email address to email them regarding this hearing. I'm assuming this one will end up getting cancelled, as it was for me to do the stat dec, which is done.

but you’re correct, haven’t heard anything about a new court hearing or anything from Govia. What should I be expecting to happen next?

 

[WesternLancer]

I don’t have a copy of the exact letter to hand, it had written it someone’s else’s PC, as I don’t have a printer, but I can get another copy to share with you possibly tomorrow. It was along the lines of, I had only recently found out about the prosecution, briefly explaining why I hadn’t found out sooner, apologising and explaining I had submitted a stat dec and would appreciate the opportunity to settle out of court.

I reicevd another email today regarding the hearing on the 28th, then rang the original court not realising this hearing is actually at Westminster court, and was given an email address to email them regarding this hearing. I'm assuming this one will end up getting cancelled, as it was for me to do the stat dec, which is done.

but you’re correct, haven’t heard anything about a new court hearing or anything from Govia. What should I be expecting to happen next?

with regards to Govia I suspect your letter hasn't reached the top of the pile yet. Also Govia themselves might need to wait for confirmation from the court that the SD has cancelled the previous prosecution before they can engage with you about an out of court settlement and I have no idea how long that takes

Your synopsis of the letter you sent is helpful but I would suggest you do get yourself another copy of it (even if just printed out) for your own records. It's important you keep copies of all the paperwork from the court, the railway, and your responses, so do get a copy from that persons PC

with regards to the SD / court etc hopefully someone else here who has given advice on that aspect of things will be able to help. @Puffing Devil or @island may know

 

[Puffing Devil]

I reicevd another email today regarding the hearing on the 28th, then rang the original court not realising this hearing is actually at Westminster court, and was given an email address to email them regarding this hearing. I'm assuming this one will end up getting cancelled, as it was for me to do the stat dec, which is done.

but you’re correct, haven’t heard anything about a new court hearing or anything from Govia. What should I be expecting to happen next?

Can you post the email you received?

If you haven't heard from the court where you sent the SD you can call them to see if it's been actioned and they've called off the bailiffs.

 

[PhonyKangaroo]

Recieved this from the court again this morning. I’ve rang and they’ve told me it’s listed for a case reopening, but they do have my Stat Dec on file. I’ve been repeatedly since the 13th, asked for them to cancel the listing and haven’t heard anything back. The person I have spoke to at the court today is now going to try and email someone else at the court on my behalf, for it to be cancelled. Feels like a wild goose chase. Still haven’t heard anything from rail company.

Please can someone help, they’re telling me I have to come in and plea but I really didn’t want to do that I’m really confused. Shall I get a solicitior im really panicking now.

 

[tixy]

Let’s approach this directly. The court have decided to re-open the case and have listed you for a plea hearing after receiving a stat dec. this is for 8 days time.

You have written to Govia but have had no reply.

Unfortunately the court won’t simply cancel the hearing they may re-schedule to give time for Govia to decide, maybe a call to listings at Westminster Magistrates Court on 03308 084407

I would today however email Govia, remind them about the letter you sent, and ask if they intend to attend court on the 8th?

At the same time, ask if Govia would consider out of court disposal (maybe some members can help advise on the text?)

Pop a read receipt on it and send it.

If come the 8th and still no reply, see if the legal advisor in court will allow you to enter no plea and adjourn?

 

[WesternLancer]

s

Let’s approach this directly. The court have decided to re-open the case and have listed you for a plea hearing after receiving a stat dec. this is for 8 days time.

You have written to Govia but have had no reply.

Unfortunately the court won’t simply cancel the hearing they may re-schedule to give time for Govia to decide, maybe a call to listings at Westminster Magistrates Court on 03308 084407

I would today however email Govia, remind them about the letter you sent, and ask if they intend to attend court on the 8th?

At the same time, ask if Govia would consider out of court disposal (maybe some members can help advise on the text?)

Pop a read receipt on it and send it.

If come the 8th and still no reply, see if the legal advisor in court will allow you to enter no plea and adjourn?

seems like sound advice to me - I think @PhonyKangaroo needs to totally focus on contacting GTR now - using method suggested - probably try marking it urgent (but also as they don't always accept e-mails print it off and send it next day delivery royal mail to GTR)

Format would be as short a letter / e-mail as you can
- enclosing previous e-mail,
- asking if they had received it and had a chance to consider it,
- and in the light of the revised hearing date of X date,
- would they kindly consider an out of court settlement so the court action scheduled for x date could be withdrawn.

e-mail that to GTR 1st thing in the morning Thursday (and the next day delivery posted would arrive friday) in the hope they reply

Include your e-mail address and phone number in what you send - make it easy as poss for them to contact you (as well as postal address, name, date of birth and case ref numbers of course)

I’m not sure if there is any way to phone GTRs prosecution team and I usually don’t recommend ringing about these things but a phone call after sending the e mail might be worth trying in order to stress the urgency of trying to resolve this before the new court date.

 

[PhonyKangaroo]

I sent the email last night to Govia and they’ve already replied. They say they have no information on my case from the court. Do I need to ring the court again now?

Also this is the email I sent to them


Dear whom in may concern,

My name is (NAME) and I originally wrote to you on the 01/05 about a case you brought against me that was originally heard on 13/01/2025. I was wondering if you have received and had a chance to consider the letter.

In light of the revised hearing date on 28/05, would you kindly consider an out of court settlement so that court action scheduled for 28/05 could be withdrawn.

In able for you to locate this matter easily I will include my case number which is (CASE NUMBER). I will be monitoring my inbox constantly in anticipation for your response, but if you would prefer to call me you do so on (MOBILE).

 

[WesternLancer]

I sent the email last night to Govia and they’ve already replied. They say they have no information on my case from the court. Do I need to ring the court again now?

Also this is the email I sent to them


Dear whom in may concern,

My name is (NAME) and I originally wrote to you on the 01/05 about a case you brought against me that was originally heard on 13/01/2025. I was wondering if you have received and had a chance to consider the letter.

In light of the revised hearing date on 28/05, would you kindly consider an out of court settlement so that court action scheduled for 28/05 could be withdrawn.

In able for you to locate this matter easily I will include my case number which is (CASE NUMBER). I will be monitoring my inbox constantly in anticipation for your response, but if you would prefer to call me you do so on (MOBILE).

So does this mean the court have not advised (Govia) GTR that they have listed a date to hear a case from GTR against you in 8 days time (or less now)?

That seems strange to me but I don't know how the court process works - perhaps @Puffing Devil might be able to advise?

I would assume the court is supposed to inform GTR (as the prosecutor that brought the original case of your SD) - unless it does not work that way.

I would indeed ring the court and try and ask them about this (ie ask them who informs GTR about your SD - is it the court? and if so when are they going to do this?) - stress to the court that you have been advised (that's by experts here but you don't need to mention that) that there is a very strong prospect of GTR withdrawing the case and allowing you to settle out of court but it's vital GTRs prosecutions team are advised of progress / SD from courts point of view because they won't action that until they hear from the court and there is precious little time esp given bank holiday on Monday - if your conversation with them goes reasonably well I'd follow it up with an e-mail to the court confirming it (which you can then perhaps send a copy of to GTR - see my point below)

It's good that GTR replied so quickly - try to keep that channel of communication open (ie tell them what you are doing / have done, when you have done it)

In case all of this does not get resolved by the court date, I think you do also need to prepare yourself to go to the court on 28th May as @tixy says (not 8th I presume as per post #46) early in the day in the hope you can seek out the prosecutor from GTR, explain what us going on and the context and seek to settle it out of court at the last minute by agreement with prosecutor.

We have known this to be accepted on other occasions in the past. I think you might need to be able to make payment in full then and there (this would be to GTR over the phone I think so you would need payment method to hand and funds available), as opposed to payment to the court if it did end up with prosecution.

 

[PhonyKangaroo]

I would indeed ring the court and try and ask them about this (ie ask them who informs GTR about your SD - is it the court? and if so when are they going to do this?) - stress to the court that you have been advised (that's by experts here but you don't need to mention that) that there is a very strong prospect of GTR withdrawing the case and allowing you to settle out of court but it's vital GTRs prosecutions team are advised of progress / SD from courts point of view because they won't action that until they hear from the court and there is precious little time esp given bank holiday on Monday - if your conversation with them goes reasonably well I'd follow it up with an e-mail to the court confirming it (which you can then perhaps send a copy of to GTR - see my point below)

I just came off the phone to the court and theyve told me that because the court is dealing with the case, the prosecution team from Govia wont be notified until after the hearing? From what it sounds like, they’re not even going to be there and it’s just for me to make a plea.

 

[WesternLancer]

I just came off the phone to the court and theyve told me that because the court is dealing with the case, the prosecution team from Govia wont be notified until after the hearing? From what it sounds like, they’re not even going to be there and it’s just for me to make a plea.

OK - sorry -I'm at the limit of my expertise

I wonder if @Puffing Devil or @island who have posted in this thread and I know give good advice on court and SD matters might be able to pitch in with anything helpful to you

It's not clear to me (if they have not sent you new court papers) what you are being asked to plead about (ie what actual offence) - or do you know this?

 

[PhonyKangaroo]

I emailed GTR back and let them know what I was told on the phone by the courts, luckily they are replying very quickly which is nice. But it looks like I will have to make a plea.

From my understanding, if I plea guilty will there another hearing? I thought it would all just be dealt with there and then.

It's not clear to me (if they have not sent you new court papers) what you are being asked to plead about (ie what actual offence) - or do you know this?

I’m assuming it’s to plea on the offence that was outlined on the letter I was sent by the court when I was told of the hearing. But I haven’t been sent anything else formally by the courts. I’ll attach the letter below.

 

[Hadders]

I'd have though you need to plead 'not guilty'. if you plead guilty then there won't be another hearing - you'll be convicted because you pleaded guilty!

 

[WesternLancer]

I emailed GTR back and let them know what I was told on the phone by the courts, luckily they are replying very quickly which is nice. But it looks like I will have to make a plea.

From my understanding, if I plea guilty will there another hearing? I thought it would all just be dealt with there and then.

Well - that would be plead guilty to what?

If you plead guilty to a ticketing offence my understanding is that there will be no further hearing, you will receive a court fine etc (discounted for submitting an early guilty plea) and also a criminal record (they key thing you have been trying to avoid.

If you plead 'not guilty' then presumably it goes before magistrates to assess if what you did you are guilty of (and if that was travel without a valid ticket then you probably were guilty so they would presumably find you guilty). Not sure if that happens then or later.

If you are being asked to go to the court to do something with the SD you submitted then it might be that a court date for the actual offence issue is set for later on and then you have more time to engage with GTR and they (GTR) may be notified by the court of that date etc in the way they have not as yet been notified.

I hope someone here can give you the insights and advice you need.

EDIT - I see @Hadders has made a useful post whilst I wrote this

I emailed GTR back and let them know what I was told on the phone by the courts, luckily they are replying very quickly which is nice. But it looks like I will have to make a plea.

From my understanding, if I plea guilty will there another hearing? I thought it would all just be dealt with there and then.


I’m assuming it’s to plea on the offence that was outlined on the letter I was sent by the court when I was told of the hearing. But I haven’t been sent anything else formally by the courts. I’ll attach the letter below.

EDIT - so your second uploaded document suggests to me it is vital you go to the court if they are deciding on whether to re-open proceedings. I assume that this relates to the SD - and if you had any chance to speak you would say that you want the proceedings to be re-opened because you were never originally aware of them due to being of no fixed abode at the time and never receiving the original paperwork from the the train company to start with, or the court later on.

If they don't re-open the proceedings I would guess that the original sentence and fine (including probably the escalated costs which had ended up at £700+ IIRC) would still stand.

Hope others can correct me if my understanding of this is wrong

 

[PhonyKangaroo]

I'd have though you need to plead 'not guilty'. if you plead guilty then there won't be another hearing - you'll be convicted because you pleaded guilty!

Yes that’s what I thought too. But I did commit the offence so am I meant to lie? It doesn’t sound right to me.

Also, the hearing was original set before I had even put in the statutory declaration, I had only filled in the online form.

 

[Pushpit]

Yes that’s what I thought too. But I did commit the offence so am I meant to lie? It doesn’t sound right to me.

In post 1 you said you were likely intoxicated and couldn't recall exactly what had happned. I imagine you've not seen any paperwork to jog your memory?

 

[WesternLancer]

In post 1 you said you were likely intoxicated and couldn't recall exactly what had happned. I imagine you've not seen any paperwork to jog your memory?

This is the nub of the OPs problem (or the initial problem,) in that at the time in question AIUI they were homeless / no fixed abode / 'sofa surfing' so the original paperwork was sent to an address that they gave to the inspector where they were staying at the time, but had since moved on from that address several time by the time the matter come to the OPs attention - when bailiffs IIRC found the OP who was by that time staying at a parents address and perhaps this was the first time any of the bodies involved made any attempt to locate the OP. They had no prior knowledge of court action taken against them - hence the SD advice on here and where things are now at.

As per post #1 the OP thinks that they travelled on a late night (or perhaps very early morning) short train journey in Potters Bar - Hadley Wood area without a valid ticket or perhaps no ticket at all. I think somewhere in what has become a long thread (frustrating saga for the OP) I think they did eventually find out from the court that previously convicted them who brought the case and what it was for.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Also, the hearing was original set before I had even put in the statutory declaration, I had only filled in the online form.

As they had you down for a hearing, they have taken that "slot" to reopen the case. You should keep working with the GTR to settle. If they haven't settled before, you should ask to speak to the prosecutor on the day.

Unfortunately, you are guilty by your own admission, and while people can usually settle out of court, sometimes cases land there. If you are unable to cut a deal before the day, you have no firm grounds to ask for an adjournment, though if GTR do not send a representative, you could try asking the court to put the matter off until the next time their prosecutor is in court to try to settle out of court. If that is the case, you could enter no plea. Be aware that this may lose you some of the discount on a fine for an early guilty plea, though if your income is low, it's likely to be only a few pounds.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

As they had you down for a hearing, they have taken that "slot" to reopen the case. You should keep working with the GTR to settle. If they haven't settled before, you should ask to speak to the prosecutor on the day.

Unfortunately, you are guilty by your own admission, and while people can usually settle out of court, sometimes cases land there. If you are unable to cut a deal before the day, you have no firm grounds to ask for an adjournment, though if GTR do not send a representative, you could try asking the court to put the matter off until the next time their prosecutor is in court to try to settle out of court. If that is the case, you could enter no plea. Be aware that this may lose you some of the discount on a fine for an early guilty plea, though if your income is low, it's likely to be only a few pounds.

So in practical terms:

- turn up to court
- ask if you can have things adjourned so that you have time to negotiate a settlement with GTR. I guess (but don't know) that you should try asking a court official before you go into court - and if they can't help you may have to ask the magistrates when you are in court
- if they won't allow you time to negotiate, you need a plan B. On my understanding of the facts, that will have to be to plead guilty. You will then need to show what your income is, as the fine will be based on that.

I probably should add that I have no personal experience of this process, so I am happy for someone more knowledgeable to put this right.

 

[WesternLancer]

- if they won't allow you time to negotiate, you need a plan B. On my understanding of the facts, that will have to be to plead guilty. You will then need to show what your income is, as the fine will be based on that.

Ref this regarding the income I think it is a court MC100 form as downloadable from here - you may not have to submit it on the day but suspect it helps if you can do so. @PhonyKangaroo can look at this one here to gather the info required or do initial preparation

I assume that it is the info given here that result in court fines being reduced for low incomes and also potentially helps with any request to pay the court in installments.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5aa6b46aed915d4f595c551e/mc100-eng.pdf

Yes that’s what I thought too. But I did commit the offence so am I meant to lie? It doesn’t sound right to me.

Also, the hearing was original set before I had even put in the statutory declaration, I had only filled in the online form.

Given the helpful advice from @Puffing Devil @Fawkes Cat and @Hadders - and give that GTR are responding to you today - I wonder if they might answer a question with an indication that they would be prepared to consider an out of court settlement with you if the court process / notifications to them permit that to happen.

having a print out of a message from GTR that indicated that they would be prepared to consider this (if they answered in that way) on you when you went to the court might certainly help make the case clearly to the court / magistrates etc that if they adjourned it there would be a benefit to the various parties to agree to such a request.

Just an idea on my part.

To add you have my significant sympathy on how this is playing out, the complexity and difficulty in resolving, which in my view is a direct consequence of your housing situation (or lack of it) at the time and thus not really of your making (beyond the initial ticketless travel I mean). To me its a real indictment of the process that people without means behind them can end up suffering from and I feel it is fundamentally unfair. I just hope @PhonyKangaroo feels the help from here has been of some assistance in all this.