High Peak Bus Company / Trentbarton Split [Merged Thread]

[johnnychips]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but as High Peak have taken over the Stockport - Macclesfield service, and the journey takes about an hour, will they be sat at Macclesfield for 50 mins or so (they seem to all turn around directly at Stockport) or be linked to some other service like Buxton, Chapel or Knutsford to minimise time doing nothing?

Very long sentence, hope it makes sense!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What vehicles in their fleet will High Peak be using on the route that goes from Stockport to Macclesfield, via the narrow lanes from Poynton to Bollington (I always get confused between the 392 and the 393 service routes).

Were BakerBus finding their northern involvement too onerous ?

 

[pemma]

I imagine High Peak will use a Solo unless passenger numbers are too high - it's what they usually do.

Interworking the 392/3 with the 58 route would mean a 45 minute layover at Macclesfield in the northbound direction, with the 62 route it would give a 0 minute layover at Macclesfield in the Stockport direction while the 27 route is being withdrawn in the first week of April.

 

[323235]

What vehicles in their fleet will High Peak be using on the route that goes from Stockport to Macclesfield, via the narrow lanes from Poynton to Bollington (I always get confused between the 392 and the 393 service routes).

Were BakerBus finding their northern involvement too onerous ?

Well one driver told me that operating in Stockport turned 8 hour shifts into 13 hour days so clearly the drivers will be happy to be rid of that group of services.

The fares will be significantly higher with a Return from Poynton to Macclesfield at £5.70 up from £3.51 with a Cheshire Travelcard at present on Bakerbus. I will no longer be able to afford to travel on the route South of Poynton at those eye watering prices.

I think the fare rise will make a Solo probably more than adequate for most of the day.

The increased layovers have come about as a consequence of an investigation by the VOSA Bus Compliance Officer last year.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if the current "to-ings and fro-ings" of High Peak are reflective of them still "finding their feet" in deciding which area will give them the most economic use of their vehicle pool.

Has anyone any views of how Vale of Llangollen will look to having an established area in both Cheshire West and Cheshire East ?

 

[tbone]

They're also taking on a few pieces of work in the Ashbourne area, the old TM Travel network is being split between Yourbus and High Peak

 

[WillPS]

TM Travel are shedding their non-Yorkshire centric stuff?

 

[tbone]

TM Travel are shedding their non-Yorkshire centric stuff?

Seems to be the case, the Ashbourne services are going and they've given up the tenders on the Matlock locals, although the fact that they've got competition from G&J Holmes may mean that the tender price isn't profitable

 

[pemma]

Were BakerBus finding their northern involvement too onerous ?

I've just discovered that in 1997 (corrected) when Bakers Coaches registered the Macclesfield-Knutsford service it was only the 3rd bus route they registered (The Bakerbus name hadn't been introduced at the time.)

Also Bakers took over the former operations of former Middlewich coach operator Niddries Coaches following the retirement of Ian Niddrie. Niddries ran one college bus and one school bus in the Knutsford area, as well as doing excursions with a Knutsford pick up point. Bakers still advertise coach trips in the Knutsford Guardian has having a local pick up point.

Niddries did used to have a close relation with Bostocks Coaches. In that one would cover for the other if they were short of drivers or coaches. However, that ended once Holmeswood Coaches (who already had taken over Bostocks) acquired Walkers Coaches - Walkers offered similar coach trips with similar pick up points to Niddries.

I wonder if the current "to-ings and fro-ings" of High Peak are reflective of them still "finding their feet" in deciding which area will give them the most economic use of their vehicle pool.

The Macclesfield-Knutsford buses used to say Cheshire Connect operated by Centrebus unlike the Macclesfield-Prestbury buses that used to say Cheshire Connect operated by Bowers, despite both being repainted at the same time. Also whenever a Centrebus branded vehicle was subleased to Bowers it seemed to finish up on the 27 route.

I wonder if at one point Centrebus were envisaging doing something like in West Yorkshire. In West Yorkshire there's a Huddersfield company called 'The Huddersfield Bus Company' that Centrebus own 60% of which was set up to purchase the Stagecoach Huddersfield operations. However, rather than expanding that company in to Halifax Centrebus set up a brand new company called Centrebus West Yorkshire which started taking on routes First Bus were no longer interested in. Maybe they envisaged High Peak and Centrebus Cheshire at one point?

Has anyone any views of how Vale of Llangollen will look to having an established area in both Cheshire West and Cheshire East ?

I think they'll have to use the brand name of 'Vale Travel' rather than the registered name of Vale of Llangollen.

I've actually discovered G.H.A. stands for Gwasanaeth heb ei ail, so it's even more Welsh than Vale of Llangollen is.

The problem with G.H.A. at the moment seems to be their HQ seems unaware what local depots and buses are doing, so the people on the central phone number or those updating the Facebook and Twitter feeds aren't able to help a lot of passengers with queries about travel the same day.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think they'll have to use the brand name of 'Vale Travel' rather than the registered name of Vale of Llangollen.

That would be quite logical as it is an easy name to use, I think that I saw a Vale Travel white bus on the service 200 to Wilmslow railway station, via Styal, with "Wrexham" painted in the back panel parked at "H" stand at Manchester Airport bus station recently, where I went to pass some spare minutes whilst waiting for my train, as is my want.

Did there used to be a bus company called Vale of Manchester in recent years ?

 

[tom1649]

...and they've given up the tenders on the Matlock locals, although the fact that they've got competition from G&J Holmes may mean that the tender price isn't profitable

Can you tell me your source for this please? There's nothing on the DCC website.

 

[tamesidedepot]

Did there used to be a bus company called Vale of Manchester in recent years ?

Indeed there did Paul, they operated mainly to the north of the city, but I seem to recall them operating into Stockport (173 service I think) and a few routes in/around Ashton Under Lyne.
The GMTS website states they ceased operating 19/5/2008.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I've just discovered that in 2007 when Bakers Coaches registered the Macclesfield-Knutsford service it was only the 3rd bus route they registered (The Bakerbus name hadn't been introduced at the time.)

Are you sure about that? I started uni in 2006 and used the Bakerbus X1 service to get there every day. The 9 (now Nines) and 77 were definitely already running by this time and I'm almost certain that the 33/33a and 99/99a/99b services were already in operation too. And there are other services that they had run several years previously. The Bakerbus name was very much in use by this time too.

 

[martinsh]

Are you sure about that? I started uni in 2006 and used the Bakerbus X1 service to get there every day. The 9 (now Nines) and 77 were definitely already running by this time and I'm almost certain that the 33/33a and 99/99a/99b services were already in operation too. And there are other services that they had run several years previously. The Bakerbus name was very much in use by this time too.

I think he means 1997 ?

Certainly the first service run by Bakers was Sundays on C84 Crewe - Newcastle as from deregulation (1986), and the second one was the "China Service" linking tourist attractions in the Potteries which started in May 1990.

The 26/7 was one of their earliest routes. They originally used their own vehicles, but then used the County Council Cadets from new, which were 53 reg (I think).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Indeed there did Paul, they operated mainly to the north of the city, but I seem to recall them operating into Stockport (173 service I think) and a few routes in/around Ashton Under Lyne.
The GMTS website states they ceased operating 19/5/2008.

Thank you for this information and also for the link provided, which is very useful information for my archive records. My good lady wife and I hope to visit the Greater Manchester Museum of Transport in the very near future.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I think he means 1997 ?

Certainly the first service run by Bakers was Sundays on C84 Crewe - Newcastle as from deregulation (1986), and the second one was the "China Service" linking tourist attractions in the Potteries which started in May 1990.

The 26/7 was one of their earliest routes. They originally used their own vehicles, but then used the County Council Cadets from new, which were 53 reg (I think).

Yes, 1997 sounds more likely. I'm sure I've seen photographs of Bakers operating some sort of Biddulph Town Service/Biddulph Moor local service(s) using Merc 608's too.

 

[pemma]

I think he means 1997 ?

Certainly the first service run by Bakers was Sundays on C84 Crewe - Newcastle as from deregulation (1986), and the second one was the "China Service" linking tourist attractions in the Potteries which started in May 1990.

The 26/7 was one of their earliest routes. They originally used their own vehicles, but then used the County Council Cadets from new, which were 53 reg (I think).

Yes I meant 1997. Bakers had the 27 route from 1997-2007. The Summer Sunday 27 services remained with Bakerbus after that until the council withdrew the funding.

Post-2003 they only used one Cheshire Council Wright Cadet on the 27 route initially which was YJ53 VEA. I think the other (YJ53 VEB) was used on a Congleton route under Arriva initially, which is why it had an Arriva plate put on the inside. The 27 route under Bakerbus post-2003 quite often had the Cheshire CC branded Wright Cadet on one diagram and the other diagram usually started the day as a Volvo B10B, switched to a Mercedes 709D and then back to a Volvo B10B.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That would be quite logical as it is an easy name to use, I think that I saw a Vale Travel white bus on the service 200 to Wilmslow railway station, via Styal, with "Wrexham" painted in the back panel parked at "H" stand at Manchester Airport bus station recently, where I went to pass some spare minutes whilst waiting for my train, as is my want.

At the moment the Knutsford routes seem to be getting all kinds of buses.

On the 289 I've seen Cheshire Connect Solos, Cheshire Connect DARTs, GHA branded Solos, GHA branded DARTs and even a DeeBee Solo.

On the 88 alongside the route branded Versas and DART saying 'Cheshire Connect operated by Vale Travel' I've seen 'Cheshire Connect operated by GHA DARTs, GHA branded DARTs, GHA branded Solos (in school holidays only), Vale Travel branded DARTs, a GHA branded DAF SB220 and even a DART in route specific livery for Wrexham-Llangollen.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the 289 service, do you feel that the existing service pattern meets the needs of the settlements that it serves. From Knutsford, are there more passengers in the Altrincham direction than the Northwich direction ? Who ran this service before GHA coaches.

 

[pemma]

On the 289 service, do you feel that the existing service pattern meets the needs of the settlements that it serves. From Knutsford, are there more passengers in the Altrincham direction than the Northwich direction ? Who ran this service before GHA coaches.

Previously Swans who took over the service from North Western - I think before they became Arriva.

The 289 isn't that highly loaded out of Knutsford (except when there's train disruption) but I've seen it arrive/depart Northwich fairly full. Although, the 289 stops on request on Manchester Rd, Knutsford near Queensway and the High Peak 300 circular route currently serves Queensway on selected services but won't from April, so passengers may transfer to the 289 instead.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well one driver told me that operating in Stockport turned 8 hour shifts into 13 hour days so clearly the drivers will be happy to be rid of that group of services.

The fares will be significantly higher with a Return from Poynton to Macclesfield at £5.70 up from £3.51 with a Cheshire Travelcard at present on Bakerbus. I will no longer be able to afford to travel on the route South of Poynton at those eye watering prices.

I think the fare rise will make a Solo probably more than adequate for most of the day.

The increased layovers have come about as a consequence of an investigation by the VOSA Bus Compliance Officer last year.

The tendered contract awarded in 2008 for 5 years was

Contract No: 50392
Route from: Macclesfield, Bollington, Poynton
Route to: Stockport
Minimum Seating Capacity: 29
Awarded To: Bakers Coaches
Contract value: £117,300
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From Twitter: CEC will shortly be issuing a tender for the op of a revised 27 Macc which it believes will cover the majority of jrns currently undertaken.

It looks like the tender closed last Friday and Cheshire East simply stated a bus service is required to transport people in Cheshire East for 9 months from 4th April 2013.

High Peak put on their website this week that they won't be running the 27 after 3rd April so looks like they aren't a party who are a bidder/preferred bidder.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I do however support your view that Bakerbus and GHA/Vale of Llangollen running the service could be the best way forward. Bakerbus because they have some of the lowest fares and GHA because their weekly ticket at £18 is very good value and they operate the 289/88 so its a natural fit into their micro network in that area.

Good guess about GHA taking the service:
http://www.ghacoaches.co.uk/Timetables/027MF12A.html

Not linked to the timetables page or on the Cheshire East website so perhaps waiting a rubber stamp off the Traffic Commissioner.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

[
Good guess about GHA taking the service:
http://www.ghacoaches.co.uk/Timetables/027MF12A.html

Not linked to the timetables page or on the Cheshire East website so perhaps waiting a rubber stamp off the Traffic Commissioner.

Are there any other services that serve Over Peover ?

 

[323235]

Nowhere near the service it was before High Peak's failed commercial dabbling but I think it can be recovered, with an operator like GHA Coaches.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We have friends who will be using the Trans Peak service from the Manchester teminus to visit Matlock in the next two weeks. What type of buses are now used and will a Saturday see the same type of bus that is used mid-week ?

 

[tbone]

We have friends who will be using the Trans Peak service from the Manchester teminus to visit Matlock in the next two weeks. What type of buses are now used and will a Saturday see the same type of bus that is used mid-week ?

At the minute it's either excels, Solars or Omnicities with the odd paladin, I think the decker will return at some point over the summer, despite being in Leicester all winter it still has High Peak vinyls.

 

[pemma]

Are there any other services that serve Over Peover ?

No.

Nowhere near the service it was before High Peak's failed commercial dabbling but I think it can be recovered, with an operator like GHA Coaches.

It's similar to the timetable as it was when Stevensons stopped running the service, with the exception of some services serving Astra Zeneca. Bakers got offered a subsidy by Astra Zeneca to enhance the peak services and send the peak services via Nether Alderley, which they did but Bakers also at the same time enhanced the off-peak service to hourly. Astra Zeneca withdrew the subsidy they offered when they reduced the number of employees they had.

I wonder if long term GHA might do what High Peak didn't do and put some scheduled empty runs between Macclesfield and Knutsford in to passenger service.

What's frustrating though is after the withdrawal of the 27 Summer Sunday service Cheshire East council said the rest of the public bus services in Knutsford were safe from any further subsidy cuts.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've just noticed they're now running a short Macclesfield town centre bus every hour
http://www.highpeakbuses.com/Documents/1 Macclesfield to Black Road Mon-Sat 010413.pdf

It seems to be how they are trying to prevent buses from the Stockport-Macclesfield service sitting around at the bus station for a very long layover.

 

[323235]

They've been running that service since last year, it formerly terminated at Forest Cottage but no longer runs as far up Buxton Road and serves more residential streets than previously.

Its a better idea running them on that short town service than attempting to interwork them with any other service that is prone to delay.

The 392 is now much more punctual thanks to the extended layover at the Macclesfield end. This along with the serving of Bollington hourly seems to be having a very positive effect on patronage at key times of the day.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They've been running that service since last year, it formerly terminated at Forest Cottage but no longer runs as far up Buxton Road and serves more residential streets than previously.

It is not too bad making the walk down the steep hill to Macclesfield town centre from there, but I must confess that the bus service really does provide a most useful service on the way back up that hill, especially for the shoppers.

 

[323235]

Yes its a hard climb, even more so to Teggs Nose.

The 58 still provides a service all the way up to Forest Cottage and beyond to Walker Barn.

 

[pemma]

They've been running that service since last year, it formerly terminated at Forest Cottage but no longer runs as far up Buxton Road and serves more residential streets than previously.

They applied to withdraw route 1 Macclesfield-Forest Cottage so they must have put in a new application for a shortened version opposed to revising the existing registration.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They applied to withdraw route 1 Macclesfield-Forest Cottage so they must have put in a new application for a shortened version opposed to revising the existing registration.

If the new route, cut back from Forest Cottage but then serving previously unserved areas near to Macclesfield town centre, is looked at, it is surely a totally different service.

 

[323235]

They applied to withdraw route 1 Macclesfield-Forest Cottage so they must have put in a new application for a shortened version opposed to revising the existing registration.

Yes it was only re-registered on the 27th February.